Apple Certified Refurbished Macs - Am I getting a model with a used SSD?

[Yebubbleman]

I've long recommended people to buy Apple Certified Refurbished when it comes to Macs (assuming the Mac they want with the configuration they want is available). But, it occurs to me that I, myself, have not done so since Apple started shipping models wherein the SSD is soldered to the main logic board and is non-removable as a result.

With M1 and (most) T2 Macs having this particular design, this means that any used logic board must also have a used SSD. Given this, I'm wondering what the likelihood of Apple using used main logic boards in those products might be.

I know that the outer shell and battery are brand new. But past that, I wonder to what degree the main logic board (and the on-board SSD in particular) is used.

I have no issue with the rest of the logic board being used, but the SSD is a consumable resource with a limited number of writes. So, I guess I'm wondering if there is a diminished (even if microscopically) lifetime of that SSD (and therefore that main logic board itself) with an Apple Certified Refurbished version of an M1 or T2 Mac when compared to buying brand new. It's probably splitting hairs and more of an academic difference, but I'm still curious.

 

[RUQRU]

Here is what Apple says, not specific to SSD:

You will receive a “like new” device with genuine Apple replacement parts (as needed) that has been thoroughly cleaned and inspected. Refurbished iOS devices will come with new battery and outer shell. Every device will come with all accessories, cables and operating systems.1 All Apple Certified Refurbished products are packaged in a brand new white box and will be sent to you with free shipping and returns.

SEE: Discover the Apple Certified Refurbished promise.

You can call Apple for additional clarification: 1‑800‑MY‑APPLE.

 

[sublunar]

I've long recommended people to buy Apple Certified Refurbished when it comes to Macs (assuming the Mac they want with the configuration they want is available). But, it occurs to me that I, myself, have not done so since Apple started shipping models wherein the SSD is soldered to the main logic board and is non-removable as a result.

With M1 and (most) T2 Macs having this particular design, this means that any used logic board must also have a used SSD. Given this, I'm wondering what the likelihood of Apple using used main logic boards in those products might be.

I know that the outer shell and battery are brand new. But past that, I wonder to what degree the main logic board (and the on-board SSD in particular) is used.

I have no issue with the rest of the logic board being used, but the SSD is a consumable resource with a limited number of writes. So, I guess I'm wondering if there is a diminished (even if microscopically) lifetime of that SSD (and therefore that main logic board itself) with an Apple Certified Refurbished version of an M1 or T2 Mac when compared to buying brand new. It's probably splitting hairs and more of an academic difference, but I'm still curious.

Good point there, wonder if any users if refurbished M1 macs have apps that can check the wear on their SSD?

How to check your Mac’s SSD health using Terminal

Learn how to set up the Terminal in macOS so you can install and run smartmontools, a utility that provides data on the health of your SSD.

www.macworld.com

might be useful in that regard

 

[Falhófnir]

Yes, it will have been an SSD which will have shipped out in a machine previously. It could have been used very little or a lot depending on how long the machine took to be returned, whether the original purchaser restored from a backup etc. In the grand scheme of things I doubt the amount of data written within ~2 weeks is going to be multiple terabytes, so it's probably all but immaterial (I'm assuming a year-old machine that gets swapped out for failed graphics or something isn't going to have it's SSD re-used, but who knows). I'd probably only take this into consideration if you want a 128GB or maybe 256GB machine, at 512 or greater, the amount of writes needed to exhaust the drive starts going up dramatically from already pretty high to astronomical amounts of data.

Personally I don't like refurbished machines, Apple or no, just on the principal of paying so much for something second hand, but others do swear by them.

 

[chabig]

I have no issue with the rest of the logic board being used, but the SSD is a consumable resource with a limited number of writes.

Apple's refurbished machines are great. SSD wear isn't an issue to worry about. It's true that there is a limit to the number of writes an SSD, but that limit is so high (probably at least ten years of normal use) as to be irrelevant.

 

[mj_]

Yes, it will be a used SSD. No, it doesn't matter at all. Even two weeks of constant nonstop writes won't affect your SSD's overall life expectency in any significant way. It might end up lasting only 78 years 9 months and 1 week instead of 78 years 11 months and 3 weeks but if that's a serious concern you might have bigger issues

 

[xaanaax]

I’m surprised no one mentioned plotting chia which uses 1.6TBW.
Ppl usually use SSD for this purpose.
I had 512GB SSD with a lifespan of 300TBW I think and within a two weeks I managed to plot about 175 chias, which was about 280TBW.
M1s are very efficient in plotting chias and ppl use them, so it’ll depend if you’re lucky and what was the Mac used for.
Also video editing uses lots of TBW, not as much as plotting but still quite a bit.
Not sure what’s the lifespan of SSD’s in Mac’s but you could in theory kill an SSD in a month.

 

[Mike Boreham]

I had 512GB SSD with a lifespan of 300TBW ….

Have you got a source for this? I have followed this topic since the first silicon macs, and the TBW life of Apple SSD is one of the big unknowns.

Here and here and here are a few of many posts on the subject in the big thread. Indications are that a 512GB mac lifespan is a lot longer than 300TBW. My own 512 GB M1 MBA showed 3% TBW usage at 80TB.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I’m surprised no one mentioned plotting chia which uses 1.6TBW.
Ppl usually use SSD for this purpose.
I had 512GB SSD with a lifespan of 300TBW I think and within a two weeks I managed to plot about 175 chias, which was about 280TBW.
M1s are very efficient in plotting chias and ppl use them, so it’ll depend if you’re lucky and what was the Mac used for.
Also video editing uses lots of TBW, not as much as plotting but still quite a bit.
Not sure what’s the lifespan of SSD’s in Mac’s but you could in theory kill an SSD in a month.

Plotting Chia? You mean like those weird pre-made planters that grow when watered daily?

 

[mcnallym]

Think about how storage on ASi laptops and mini is done.
Chips on the board directly.

So the refurb process would have to ship back to a place where can remove chips and replace with new ones.

Will be a board swap into new case but couldn’t see them doing anything with the main board unless that is where the fault lies at which point new case and new board is a new computer not a refurb.

 

[daneoni]

SSDs have come very far where the write lifespan is effectively irrelevant in most use cases.

Back in the day a brand new HDD could easily fail too

Whats important is having backups

 

[senttoschool]

Plotting Chia? You mean like those weird pre-made planters that grow when watered daily?

No, he means one of those life-sucking, planet-destroying, talent-wasting crypto blockchain projects scams that tend to use computer hardware and energy to solve useless algorithms without any legitimate use cases.

 

[Wokis]

I’m surprised no one mentioned plotting chia which uses 1.6TBW.
Ppl usually use SSD for this purpose.
I had 512GB SSD with a lifespan of 300TBW I think and within a two weeks I managed to plot about 175 chias, which was about 280TBW.
M1s are very efficient in plotting chias and ppl use them, so it’ll depend if you’re lucky and what was the Mac used for.
Also video editing uses lots of TBW, not as much as plotting but still quite a bit.
Not sure what’s the lifespan of SSD’s in Mac’s but you could in theory kill an SSD in a month.

I wouldn't worry about video editing. Reads don't count. Adding new media to the local drive and render-caching does but realistically this isn't all that much unless you are a god-level editor that edits faster than the brain can think and do it all-day everyday.

It would be rotten to the core of someone to buy a macbook, chia farm the hell out of it and then return it 14 days later, but in theory this could absolutely happen and would probably be a lucrative way to actually make a profit off that coin. I wonder though if Apple wouldn't recognise this while doing diagnostics.

 

[arw]

Although not ASi, some stats for a refurbished MacBook Pro 16" 2019 I just received from Apple:
512 GB SSD: Power on time: 6h; current TBW: 1,6 TB
So as good as new.
(I initiated an exchange nevertheless because it smelled sooo horribly like mold/mildew 🤮)

Update: The culprit is the 2m USB-C charging cable. Similar reports date back to the first M1 MacBook Airs (mine did not have this problem at all).
It was probably particularly bad in my case because the refurbished unit sat 1,5 years in its packaging with the cable emitting its fumes. Cancelled the exchange for a replacement cable only. Hopefully the MacBook itself gets better after some days of use.
The most sad thing is, I explicitly told Apple I am not particularly interested in a replacement but that I simply fear my MacBook suffered internal damages through moisture. "No, no, an Apple packaging must not smell badly and we have no reports whatsoever." Yeah, just that similar reports can be found plenty - including on their own discussion board.

 

[Closingracer]

Yes, it will have been an SSD which will have shipped out in a machine previously. It could have been used very little or a lot depending on how long the machine took to be returned, whether the original purchaser restored from a backup etc. In the grand scheme of things I doubt the amount of data written within ~2 weeks is going to be multiple terabytes, so it's probably all but immaterial (I'm assuming a year-old machine that gets swapped out for failed graphics or something isn't going to have it's SSD re-used, but who knows). I'd probably only take this into consideration if you want a 128GB or maybe 256GB machine, at 512 or greater, the amount of writes needed to exhaust the drive starts going up dramatically from already pretty high to astronomical amounts of data.

Personally I don't like refurbished machines, Apple or no, just on the principal of paying so much for something second hand, but others do swear by them.

The only company i will risk buying refurbished is Apple products sold by Apple. I don't trust anywhere else but I do prefer buying new if possible.

 

[Schnort]

I wouldn't worry about video editing. Reads don't count.

Sort of.

Somewhat unexpectedly, modern flash devices are less stable (but more dense) than the older designs. Even reading a block can trigger a re-write of the block.

Basically, instead of a single level for the flash cell (either 0 or 1), it has multiple levels (0,1,2,3), and reading the flash cell saps a little charge from it, eventually changing the value from what was stored in it. Normally, this isn't a problem as there's error correction algorithms that deal with it, but if you get too many correctable bit errors in an erase block from reading, your flash driver will detect this as getting close to the edge of the error correction scheme and rewrite the block.