Apple Chicago Mistake: lost $280. How to email Complaints Dept?

Appledoesnotlisten

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Original poster
Dec 2, 2017
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Apple Store Chicago Michigan Avenue - Incompetent Employees.
I lost $280 and 4 hours of my life because an associate at Chicago Michigan Avenue (Kirk) made a mistake. A store manager Kenny was unreasonable and refused to help. He had an attitude and did not apologize. I find Kirk's and Kenny's behavior inappropriate and want to contact Apple Complaints Department to resolve the issue.

How it happened:
I bought a 16” using two credit cards and brought it for a return to Apple Store Michigan Avenue on 1/6/20. I explained to an associate that I don’t have access to one of the credit cards and it’s better to send 100% of the refund to a gift card if the refund is to go to the original payment method. She said that she did not know for sure and asked Kirk for help. Kirk said “Let’s click and see where the money goes!” and quickly hit the button before I said “Wait!” Apparently, Kirk failed to listen or made a mistake because he was too tired. As a result, $280 went to the wrong card and is now lost.

Kirk said that transaction is irreversible and suggested I call Apple Support. I spent 4 hours of my time on the phone with no results and had to escalate the issue to the store manager. On 1/14/20 Store Manager Kenny refused to help and attempted to shift the focus from his employee's mistake to me and was rude in general.

Specifically:
1) Initially Kenny denied that Kirk made a mistake.
2) Later Kenny said that it does not matter if Kirk made a mistake.
3) Kenny also demonstrated lack of knowledge how Apple POS processes certain refunds.
4) In the end Kenny hung up on me with words "Are you recording this call?"


I want to escalate the issue and get my money back.

P.S. I regret the time that I lost because of interactions with Kirk, Kenny and apple support and want to know if there is a way to reach Apple Complaints department via email. I feel like both Kirk and Kenny are not sufficiently trained. Please help, thank you!
 
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gkarris

macrumors G3
Dec 31, 2004
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"My Own Private Idaho”
These mega-companies don't take complaints any more. The only thing you can really do is

Do a dispute on the original purchases Hopefully you have the receipt with the return on it as proof that the refunds were messed up...
 

chscag

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2008
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Contact Apple Customer Support at 1-800-692-7753 and elevate it up the chain as appropriate. You do need documentation to prove what happened.
 

Appledoesnotlisten

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 2, 2017
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Contact Apple Customer Support at 1-800-692-7753 and elevate it up the chain as appropriate. You do need documentation to prove what happened.
I spent hours with Apple Customer Support at 1-800-692-7753. One of them put a request to fix the thing, but others said that the request is unlikely to help.
 

Anonymous Freak

macrumors 603
Dec 12, 2002
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If money gets refunded to an account that no longer exists, it still goes to the bank. You can then call or go to the bank and ask for it to be refunded. They'll look up the amount, and the account it attempted to be sent back to. And refund you. I know, because I have done this.

Yes, the Apple guy was wrong.

But what you were asking for sounds exactly like what scammers do.

And what the employees look like has no bearing whatsoever here. This isn't Apple Complaints department. Send it to them, not here.
 

jtara

macrumors 68000
Mar 23, 2009
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If money gets refunded to an account that no longer exists, it still goes to the bank. You can then call or go to the bank and ask for it to be refunded.
OP didn’t state that the account no longer exists. They stated that they no longer have access to the account.

the $280 is not lost. It went to whomever does have access to the account.

i will leave it to everyone to read between the lines.

Nevertheless, there was a mistake here, which was rushing the transaction.
 

Appledoesnotlisten

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Dec 2, 2017
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OP didn’t state that the account no longer exists. They stated that they no longer have access to the account.

the $280 is not lost. It went to whomever does have access to the account.

i will leave it to everyone to read between the lines.
I am no longer an authorized user on that account and have no way on convincing the account holder to return the money. That's why I asked Apple to do a store credit/gift card instead. And now I am asking Appel to reverse the transaction.
 
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mrwalleyeman

macrumors member
Feb 5, 2010
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Eastern Wa
OP so you say you lost $280, well here is why you more than likely did not.

So you no longer have access or are an authorized user of a credit card that was used? Im assuming that you were within the Apple 14 day return policy when you returned the MacBook that was partially purchased with the said credit card? Now with those two questions/statements I am guessing that you never made a payment on the $280 that was charged on that credit card before returning the MacBook that was purchased. So you really didn't lose $280 if what I said above is true. The person that is the account holder would have lost the $280 because they would have to pay it, not you. It sounds to me that you are trying to scam the person that has the credit card account.

It is a common policy with most major retailers to refund the purchase back to all original forms of payment that were used. So if you used one credit card for part of the purchase, then used another for the other part they are going to do the refund on those credit cards for the amount that was charged to those cards. They are not going to issue you a gift card. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS NICE TRY. And you deserve to have wasted 4 hours.
 

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
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Brunswick, MD
Yeah.... I'd be in full support of calling out the Chicago Apple Store and the names of the people involved if they truly ripped you off, or showed incompetence with handling your sales transaction.

But this one sounds a lot like YOU are the one at fault... or at the very least? You're trying to do something that's not typical/normal here, and are frustrated that it didn't work out for you.

The previous poster is correct. Stores normally refund credit card purchases to the original card(s) the transactions were charged to. There are exceptions, but typically only for small dollar amounts, like a purchase under $20.

Why did you even buy an expensive new Macbook Pro 16" and then wish to return it? I mean, you have the right to do that within the return period - but it seems suspicious you've not so much as bothered to explain that to us in your story. This isn't one of those time periods where Apple has just refreshed the machine with some better specs or features for the same price, so it shouldn't be for that?
 
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jtara

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Mar 23, 2009
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If you convinced them to issue a gift card or store credit, rather than refunding to the original sources of funds, that’s called “theft by conversion”



I‘d think it best to live with the current outcome.

Apple might offer some small accommodation for their mistake of rushing the transaction. Had they not rushed the transaction, it would have given you time to potentially work things out with the other party.
 
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Appledoesnotlisten

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 2, 2017
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OP so you say you lost $280, well here is why you more than likely did not.

So you no longer have access or are an authorized user of a credit card that was used? Im assuming that you were within the Apple 14 day return policy when you returned the MacBook that was partially purchased with the said credit card? Now with those two questions/statements I am guessing that you never made a payment on the $280 that was charged on that credit card before returning the MacBook that was purchased. So you really didn't lose $280 if what I said above is true. The person that is the account holder would have lost the $280 because they would have to pay it, not you. It sounds to me that you are trying to scam the person that has the credit card account.

It is a common policy with most major retailers to refund the purchase back to all original forms of payment that were used. So if you used one credit card for part of the purchase, then used another for the other part they are going to do the refund on those credit cards for the amount that was charged to those cards. They are not going to issue you a gift card. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS NICE TRY. And you deserve to have wasted 4 hours.
Your argument is invalid because you do not know what financial relationships I have with the company that had issued me the credit card. What is needed at this point is to reverse the transaction and issue me a gift card on that amount, like it did not happen. Revoke the transaction or something like that.
- - Post merged: - -

You're trying to do something that's not typical/normal here, and are frustrated that it didn't work out for you.
Issuing a store credit is a routine thing. Amazon usually offers that first and so do many other retailers. Apple often issues your store credits as well. Yes it's not normal, but it's a very common usecase.
- - Post merged: - -

If you convinced them to issue a gift card or store credit, rather than refunding to the original sources of funds, that’s called “theft by conversion”



I‘d think it best to live with the current outcome.

Apple might offer some small accommodation for their mistake of rushing the transaction. Had they not rushed the transaction, it would have given you time to potentially work things out with the other party.
Thanks for the explanation. No, "theft by conversion" is not the case here.
 
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kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
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Brunswick, MD
Since you won't reveal what's going on here with the credit card in question -- we have no way to know what your "financial relationship" might be with them. (But assuming this card was actually your own, and you're suddenly unable to get back money that was just charged to it weeks ago and refunded? I could only guess this has to do with a bankruptcy in progress or a card that's in default for failure to pay previous debt owed on it?)

And that might not be the outcome you desire, if you're trying to avoid them keeping those funds from you. But it's not the Apple Store's problem or responsibility to help you dodge them either.

Issuing store credits is absolutely something that happens.... but not generally in a case like this, where you're asking for a "partial return, but some partial store credit". If I was a store manager and this was asked of me? I'd be suspicious of the motives behind asking for it and would refuse it too. It's not worth the risk that I'd get caught up in some kind of scam or battle between the card owner and the customer.


Your argument is invalid because you do not know what financial relationships I have with the company that had issued me the card. What is needed at this point is to reverse the transaction and issue me a gift card on that amount, like it did not happen. Revoke the transaction or something like that.
- - Post merged: - -


Issuing a store credit is a routine thing. Amazon usually offers that first and so do many other retailers. Apple often issues your store credits as well. Yes it's not normal, but it's a very common usecase.
 

Appledoesnotlisten

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Original poster
Dec 2, 2017
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Why did you even buy an expensive new Macbook Pro 16" and then wish to return it? I mean, you have the right to do that within the return period - but it seems suspicious you've not so much as bothered to explain that to us in your story.
I have explained that in other threads already. Partially because Apple has done a great job with repairing my 2017 MacBooks, partially because I had a lot of thermal issues with the 16", that seem to be going away though.
 

Appledoesnotlisten

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Dec 2, 2017
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Since you won't reveal what's going on here with the credit card in question -- we have no way to know what your "financial relationship" might be with them. (But assuming this card was actually your own, and you're suddenly unable to get back money that was just charged to it weeks ago and refunded? I could only guess this has to do with a bankruptcy in progress or a card that's in default for failure to pay previous debt owed on it?)
It had to do something with end of the year changes and extended return period. The computer was bought end of November and returned beginning of January. That credit card was on my name for 2+ years, so it's not like it was a stolen one. But I agree that it might look suspicious.

Ironically, I ended up returning the 16" partially because Apple did a great job with replacing top cases of 2 of my 2017 MacBook Pros. I even praised Apple on this forum for making things right after they sold us problematic butterfly keyboards.
- - Post merged: - -

And that is not Apples problem.
Oh man, I told them about that before they hit the button. The first associate was nice and said "Let me ask my colleague before I hit the button" and the colleague just hit it :(
 
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Anonymous Freak

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Dec 12, 2002
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Thanks for the explanation. No, "theft by conversion" is not the case here.
Apple. Has. No. Way. Of. Knowing. That.

I'm sorry, but what you were asking is textbook scam. The fact that you happened to *NOT* be scamming is irrelevant. Many/most stores will not turn split payment in to store credit because 90% of the time (maybe more) those attempts are people perpetrating scams.

Again, yes, the fact that the Apple rep did a "hey, let's just click!" is crappy, but odds are, that's all they would have been willing to do anyway.
 

Appledoesnotlisten

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Dec 2, 2017
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I'm sorry, but what you were asking is textbook scam. The fact that you happened to *NOT* be scamming is irrelevant. Many/most stores will not turn split payment in to store credit because 90% of the time (maybe more) those attempts are people perpetrating scams.
I am not getting why it's a suspicious given that both of the Capital One credit cards were on my name.
Really, use 2-3-4 cards to make a purchase.
Apple easily combines gift cards (up to 8, I think), there is nothing wrong with splitting payments as long as it's your card.
 

konqerror

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Dec 31, 2013
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You have a claim against the person whose account received the refund because they received refunded money that belongs to you. Take it up with them and take them to small claims court.

It's not Apple's problem because they returned the money to the person they received it in the first place. (Not you, but the account holder. As an authorized user, you are making charges under the primary cardholder's name... you are giving the primary cardholder's money.) You had an agreement with the primary cardholder to pay them and Apple had nothing to do with it.

Next time, get your own credit card.
 
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Appledoesnotlisten

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Dec 2, 2017
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You have a claim against the person whose account received the refund because they received refunded money that belongs to you. Take it up with them and take them to small claims court. Next time, get your own credit card.
Very funny.
I have my own credit personal and business cards and I am an authorized user on several other cards.
Had I known what was gonna happen, I would have used the secondary card to buy a gift card instead of involving it in a split.
 

Banglazed

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Apr 17, 2017
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Apple will refund your purchase through the original payment method unless you’re returning a gift item (like most business). Sure, the rep should’ve confirm it before proceeding. It’s true that you can split payment as long as the cards are in your name in store but not for online purchases. However, like @konqerror said, you should be resolving the issue through the cardholder and the credit card company. The money isn’t lost until you relinquish your claim of the refund. Sounds like you may have sour relationship with the cardholder to even pursue this route than trying to go through Apple instead.

 
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Appledoesnotlisten

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Dec 2, 2017
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Apple will refund your purchase through the original payment method unless you’re returning a gift item (like most business). Sure, the rep should’ve confirm it before proceeding. It’s true that you can split payment as long as the cards are in your name in store but not for online purchases. However, like @konqerror said, you should be resolving the issue through the cardholder and the credit card company. The money isn’t lost until you relinquish your claim of the refund. Sounds like you may have sour relationship with the cardholder to even pursue this route than trying to go through Apple instead.

The store employee made a mistake that caused hours lots of wasted time. Why not your retail associates so that they don't make such mistakes?
 

Banglazed

macrumors demi-god
Apr 17, 2017
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The store employee made a mistake that caused hours lots of wasted time. Why not your retail associates so that they don't make such mistakes?
If I was in your position, I would’ve chalked it up inexperienced rep and call the cardholder to let them know I did a return and I expected to get the refund from them. Sure, you can complain since it’s not what you expected but I think it a dead end. You cannot reverse a refund. In order to get another refund, the card needs to be charged or authorized again. If the card is no longer in your name or possession, it cannot be charged without consent or else it can be disputed. It is not possible based on policy to get a gift card from a credit card purchase so you’re back in loop.
 

||\||

macrumors regular
Nov 21, 2019
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To prevent theft, refunding to the original form of payment is standard in retail. Store credit is probably optional or unavailable in this case. That $280 needs to go back on the card it came from. You need to contact that card holder and pursue legal action against them if you are owed. I don’t think the Apple Store did anything wrong here.
 

Anonymous Freak

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Dec 12, 2002
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I am not getting why it's a suspicious given that both of the Capital One credit cards were on my name.
Really, use 2-3-4 cards to make a purchase.
Apple easily combines gift cards (up to 8, I think), there is nothing wrong with splitting payments as long as it's your card.
If they're both Capital One that are both on your name, you should be able to contact Capital One and get the refund.

Unless one is an account that is no longer in your name, but is still an active account in someone else's name (like a corporate card where they just removed you as a valid user.) In that case, THE MONEY WASN'T YOURS, it was the company's. Or if you were the second cardholder on a joint account with a now-ex-spouse. Again, legally that wasn't yours, it was your now-ex-spouse's. So they should get the refund. If you paid the actual-accountholder (company/ex/etc), then your recourse is to get the money from them.

This isn't Apple's fault. It really isn't. It's your split payment, and (really) unreasonable request to refund to something other than original payment method.

And no. Splitting payments is somewhat common. But asking for refunds to be paid back any means other than the same split payment IS suspicious. It's a common means of fraud. Split payment between personal and corporate, where your company paid some, then refund it, asking for it all to go back to your personal, thus netting you the money your company paid toward it. That can even be tax evasion, and get the company in trouble!

From the replies to this thread, you should be able to plainly see that what you were asking *IS* uncommon, and asking for it *DOES* put you "in the wrong" in this case. Yes, the Apple reps could have handled it better, and made that more clear to you. But the actual outcome is not Apple's problem. It's yours. Multiple people have told you what you need to do to rectify it (contact whoever has the account and ask for the money.) There is nothing else to be done - there is nothing else (reasonable) Apple would have done to change the outcome.