The more I use the 245T, the more I hate it. The lighting is very weird and makes my eyes tired. What did you mean by "his reasoning is in the PM"? Why does he hate Samsungs?
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Apple Cinema Displays vs. other brands? + Display quality rant
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The more I use the 245T, the more I hate it. The lighting is very weird and makes my eyes tired. What did you mean by "his reasoning is in the PM"? Why does he hate Samsungs?
Has anyone seen the Samsung T220 up close?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001273
It sure looks nice. A 24" and 26" are coming out in July.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001273
It sure looks nice. A 24" and 26" are coming out in July.
We normally use quad-monitor setups for our general purpose computing at the lab. The only beyond-two-monitor use at home is for Bloomberg and until recently was using 4 Dell 2707 monitors, as they were wall-mounted beyond the desk. I'd recommend them if you have a very deep desk.
The key to consistent colour even for business-professional (not print professional) use is hardware-calibrating your monitor, and in some people's cases apparently reading the manual since they cannot work out the menu. Any monitor can be adjusted to reduce eye blast - it's a matter of setting it for your intended use properly. Apple obviously makes this a no-brainer by not providing any advanced manual controls on the monitor itself.
However interestingly, in a mix and match situation of the same model monitors purchased within a six-month period, the Apples are the only monitors that we've had to very carefully choose which to use in a quad grouping due to significant variances in the monitor colour representation, even after calibration. So much for Apple "quality". The last batch of a dozen Apple 23" monitors I unpacked along with our technical guru revealed the same as previous purchases: ACD's vary just as much as, if not more than, other monitors from slightly cheaper manufacturers. The variety is such in some cases that it's not possible to get uniform colour across the monitors without hobbling one or more of the screens. We had to also pair up the slightly older monitors we were also hooking up, and what we had to do was to try each in a group then reduce down to which could be calibrated uniformly. At home I have several ACD23's, and indeed one pair of the 23"'s I use differs significantly enough to require hobbling of one of the screens if I was concerned about a colour match for the use that Pro is put to (obviously I'm not).
Generally speaking, apart from broken monitors we've not had as much trouble with the Dell 2407, 2407-HC's and now 2408's in a matched-model quad configuration. Also, the quick on-site replacement warranty makes it possible to explain your problem (if in a multi-monitor situation) and have it swapped out without too much hassle. I certainly find their monitors a good balance of quality, cost and utility certainly in the uses we put them to - which is a good deal more critical in some cases than day trading.
If you want to do away with the hassle of separately calibrating monitors, you could turn to one of the custom multi-monitor suppliers. They provide the screens and the mounting method, and in this case you can obviously ask for them to be set to however you like. Since it's also supplied as a single unit, you can raise issues with any clear mismatches between the panels.
The key to consistent colour even for business-professional (not print professional) use is hardware-calibrating your monitor, and in some people's cases apparently reading the manual since they cannot work out the menu. Any monitor can be adjusted to reduce eye blast - it's a matter of setting it for your intended use properly. Apple obviously makes this a no-brainer by not providing any advanced manual controls on the monitor itself.
However interestingly, in a mix and match situation of the same model monitors purchased within a six-month period, the Apples are the only monitors that we've had to very carefully choose which to use in a quad grouping due to significant variances in the monitor colour representation, even after calibration. So much for Apple "quality". The last batch of a dozen Apple 23" monitors I unpacked along with our technical guru revealed the same as previous purchases: ACD's vary just as much as, if not more than, other monitors from slightly cheaper manufacturers. The variety is such in some cases that it's not possible to get uniform colour across the monitors without hobbling one or more of the screens. We had to also pair up the slightly older monitors we were also hooking up, and what we had to do was to try each in a group then reduce down to which could be calibrated uniformly. At home I have several ACD23's, and indeed one pair of the 23"'s I use differs significantly enough to require hobbling of one of the screens if I was concerned about a colour match for the use that Pro is put to (obviously I'm not).
Generally speaking, apart from broken monitors we've not had as much trouble with the Dell 2407, 2407-HC's and now 2408's in a matched-model quad configuration. Also, the quick on-site replacement warranty makes it possible to explain your problem (if in a multi-monitor situation) and have it swapped out without too much hassle. I certainly find their monitors a good balance of quality, cost and utility certainly in the uses we put them to - which is a good deal more critical in some cases than day trading.
If you want to do away with the hassle of separately calibrating monitors, you could turn to one of the custom multi-monitor suppliers. They provide the screens and the mounting method, and in this case you can obviously ask for them to be set to however you like. Since it's also supplied as a single unit, you can raise issues with any clear mismatches between the panels.
I'm using horrible HP panels at work, which used to be very, very bright as well. Turning down brightness and fiddling with contrast made the colors look like crap.
My solution was to, instead of turning down brightness, decrease each individual RGB value down to 60-70%.
--Erwin
My solution was to, instead of turning down brightness, decrease each individual RGB value down to 60-70%.
--Erwin
read the link i sent you, then PM me back.
he is some IT engineer, so he did his research
ACDs are underperforming and overpriced. They are perhaps the best looking monitors i've seen, but i'm a "bang for the buck" type of guy.
If you want affordable and recent S-IPS, look at the Doublesight 26'', or if you're in the UK, I strongly recommend some of the Hazro monitors (pretty much an ACD on steroids - shell and all).
If you want affordable and recent S-IPS, look at the Doublesight 26'', or if you're in the UK, I strongly recommend some of the Hazro monitors (pretty much an ACD on steroids - shell and all).
Thanks for your reply and the indicator chart. It's was a handy quick reference. May I ask why the TICK and TRIN levels are not the same for NYSE and Nasdaq, i.e. bullish TRIN is +0.85 to +0.70 for NYSE but +0.80 to +0.65 on Nasdaq? Since it's just a math calculation, shouldn't they be the same? And why are you not using them anymore?
That's a very interesting idea. However, since the iMacs are glossy only, I would never buy one. As great as Apple is, their business decision to make the new iMacs glossy only is baffling to me. I wouldn't use a glossy computer display if someone gave it to me. For a TV, yes, when I'm 10 feet away in a completely dark room. For work, no. It's just plain crazy.
I've also been trading stocks since the mid 90s and I'm mainly a long term investor with focus on the tech sector. As I have plenty of free time during market hours, I recently decided to give day trading a shot. I've set aside 20% of my funds for this purpose and my goal is to try to make enough money to pay for my monthly expenses (but I don't have to).
As I'm lucky to have enough funds so that I don't have to worry about commissions, scalping has been the day trading style that I'm trying to pursue. Quick in, quick out and no holding overnight. The idea to only be in the market for very short periods of time, and only when there is a clear trend, and with very tight stops, is what appealed to me. And, at least in theory, it seems quite risk free, if you don't get greedy.
I was very exited when I saw that your user name is VSTscalper, so I assume that you're a scalper too. It would be great if you could share some of your experiences with scalping (i.e. risk/reward ratios, entry/exit points, stop levels, risks, realistic expectations etc.). Any tips you have would be greatly appreciated. Also, can you recommend any good forums or other web resources for scalpers? My own strategy for the moment is to make 10c on each trade with a maximum loss of 5c.
I hope you had a profitable trading day today. I managed to scalp 10c three times today on the QQQQ.
Thanks to everyone for your input!
After living with the two new Samsung 245T's for a few days, I have decided to keep them. The image is a little bit better now since I've fiddled extensively with the settings. I've also changed the lighting in my room which makes me able to use them with more brightness. The image, both color and sharpness, definitely look better with the brightness cranked up. The only question is if you can stand it. I know I can't, but I think most casual users will have no problems with that. Especially young people with good eyes.
However, I'm not keeping them because I think they are great. I'm keeping them because it's a hassle to return them and I don't know what to replace them with (I would have bought Apple displays if they were cheaper). However, when the next generation of Apple displays are finally out (please, please higher resolution per inch and resolution independence in Leopard), it's Hasta la vista to the Samsungs!
For anyone who is interested, today I also hooked up a 245T to an HD cable box and an up-converting DVD player via HDMI. I was not impressed. If you plan to sit 4-5 feet away, the image looked OK. But from 2 feet away, it wasn't very pretty. The image has a lot of motion blur and grain, and the compression artifacts from the source material was very evident. However, you probably can't compare the image of the 245T to that of an LCD TV, as I assume there is no video processor in the Samsung for de-interlacing and helping out with motion blur and all that.
After living with the two new Samsung 245T's for a few days, I have decided to keep them. The image is a little bit better now since I've fiddled extensively with the settings. I've also changed the lighting in my room which makes me able to use them with more brightness. The image, both color and sharpness, definitely look better with the brightness cranked up. The only question is if you can stand it. I know I can't, but I think most casual users will have no problems with that. Especially young people with good eyes.
However, I'm not keeping them because I think they are great. I'm keeping them because it's a hassle to return them and I don't know what to replace them with (I would have bought Apple displays if they were cheaper). However, when the next generation of Apple displays are finally out (please, please higher resolution per inch and resolution independence in Leopard), it's Hasta la vista to the Samsungs!
For anyone who is interested, today I also hooked up a 245T to an HD cable box and an up-converting DVD player via HDMI. I was not impressed. If you plan to sit 4-5 feet away, the image looked OK. But from 2 feet away, it wasn't very pretty. The image has a lot of motion blur and grain, and the compression artifacts from the source material was very evident. However, you probably can't compare the image of the 245T to that of an LCD TV, as I assume there is no video processor in the Samsung for de-interlacing and helping out with motion blur and all that.
Dell Ultrasharp 2408wfp
you mentioned the Dell 2408?? how do you like that one? i have read that there is a reddish tint around text that makes it undesirable. can you comment on that?
you mentioned the Dell 2408?? how do you like that one? i have read that there is a reddish tint around text that makes it undesirable. can you comment on that?
You're out of luck on this one because the way displays work, lower the brightness on ANY display and white will turn to black. The white color comes from the light of the backlight. If you turn down the brightness, you turn down the backlights which means a dimmer, and less white, white.
I've also noticed that the 30" emits a tremendous amount of heat. So much even that it bothered me when I sat front of one. Living in LA I don't need more heat!
Six 22" LCDs will use more power/put out more aggregate heat than two 30" Cinema Displays I'm sure.
[/quote]So, do you guys have any suggestions for 20" or 22" displays that are sharp, don't strain your eyes, have quite accurate colors without being extremely bright? Also, the higher the resolution, the better. And the cheaper the better.[/quote]
Try Benq. I love my 22" Display. Better color and sharpness than my mom's old Mitsubishi Diamondtron (these displays were only rivaled by/rivaled Trinetrons in terms of performance back in the day when a 15" LCD cost you $1,000).
[/quote]Also, does anyone know why the 245T has more motion blur, when watching DVDs that the old 23" Apple?
And if someone could give the lowdown on the advantages/disadvantages of the various forms of LCD displays, i.e. TN, S-IPS, S-PVA etc., that would be great too.[/QUOTE]
The blurring is caused by poorer pixel response. With CRTs, the image is drawn in a scanning motion. Your refresh rate is how fast each pass is. The higher the better. On screens where the refresh rate was low, you'd notice a lot of flickering and you'd get a headache from eyestrain. If the refresh rate got low enough, you'd have problems with the image sheering since it would change before the screen had been drawn if you were dealing with an interlaced video scan.
LCDs work differently. When a pixel is to be changed, there's a period of latency involved (The pixel response). If the latency is too great, you'll get ghosting, muddy video, or sheering. The former two are basically the problems you're seeing. Sheering is most evident when playing a game like Quake 3 on modern hardware where even the most basic, current, GPU can get astronomically high frame rates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD
That should take care of your other question.
The nicest way I can put this is that I don't think you understand the subject well enough to comment on it.
A photon doesn't have a perceivable level of quality. It is unto itself and no different from the one traveling right next to it, except in it's direction or wavelength (and a few other things dealing in the physics of photons that are beyond the scope of this thread).
I think what you mean to say is that they're using lower quality lighting and panel technology... and to those points I greatly disagree with you. They're not a DLP screen by any means (which are my current favorite in terms of HDTV performance), but they're way above no name panels.
Sounds like a very time and effort intensive way of tweaking your display's Gama. I assume you're on a Windows PC at work? Catalyst Control Panel and NVidia's Forceware control panel will have calibration tools to help set your gama and color levels to more appropriate settings without all the effort. If you're on Intel Integrated Graphics or something else you'll have to see what, if any, tools they provide.
You should test an unscaled movie to be sure of your results if you haven't already. The blur is once again poor pixel response time, but the rest of the image faults you're mentioning sound like a poorly implemented image interpolator (hence my comment on viewing an unscaled movie). There shouldn't be any artifacts from the encoding unless it's a home made DVD that was encoded at a very, very, low bit rate, or their upscaling code is simply worthless.
De-interlacing doesn't have anything to do with the panel itself. It has to do more with the player/decoder hardware. Some players for example can't do 1080p because their hardware isn't up to the task and so they'll advertise progressive scan, but on only the 720 resolution. Interlacing on commercial DVDs use the "soft" Telecine method which means it's all done in software. The video is encoded in the progressive scan format and then the decoding software take care of the interlacing. More than likely, since you're connected via a digital interface, unless you've selected otherwise, your movie is actually playing in Progressive Scan mode, making arguments about interlacing quite pointless
. However, if you've set it to interlaced mode, your complaints may be simply because you're used to progressive scan and don't realize it. Interlaced video is less precise than Progressive scan and can jitter. The reason interlacing is used is because it uses less bandwidth.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan
I find your young eyes comment interested when coupled with the earlier one asking about why they don't make higher resolution 22" panels. One reason for having a lower PPI on a larger screen is that it's easier on "old eyes" or those who have poorer vision. Without loosing screen real estate, everything becomes easier to read. My dad loves using his large HDTV as a monitor because it's 13-something by 10-something and 30-something inches across so he can read text without glasses.
----
I hope all this information helps. For those interested in why i bothered learning all of this... well it helps to know the "why" behind the things you do when editing/encoding video
.instead of buying a bunch of additional monitors, OP should invest in a color calibration system, and use it.
I've seen Samsung 245T displays calibrated and running next to a 23" ACD and they were identical in color quality and contrast/brightness.
The out-of-the-box calibration may be bad on the Samsung, but at least there are options.
I've seen Samsung 245T displays calibrated and running next to a 23" ACD and they were identical in color quality and contrast/brightness.
The out-of-the-box calibration may be bad on the Samsung, but at least there are options.
agreed. I bought the Samsung 2693HM 26" with a Spyder2 Express and couldn't be happier. Out of the box, it was average. After proper calibration, it's near perfect.
I'd recommend looking into LG 246WP-BN monitors.
I bought mine for $349.99
Cinema displays are terribly overpriced.
I bought mine for $349.99
Cinema displays are terribly overpriced.
Forgive the lack of rhyme, but once you go S-IPS, you never go back.
I LOVE my 23 inch ACD, even though it cost 200$ more than a Dell 24 inch 2407 at the time.
I LOVE my 23 inch ACD, even though it cost 200$ more than a Dell 24 inch 2407 at the time.
Just to chime in (again) in this thread, I have a 24" LG 246W (an A-MVA panel) and I like it very much.
Very white whites, excellent grey scale, very sharp text and not so bright as to be blinding. Calibrated it with a ColorVision datacolor Spyder 2 (not ultra pro level, but good enough for me) and its beautiful.
Plus it has HDMI and VGA inputs, and an option to have the blue power light be off when the display is on, and on (amber) when the display is in power-saving mode -- same behavior as the Apple displays.
Edit - and just one interesting tidbit... I have an Apple 30" display (original revision) and I like this 24" better. Brighter, more uniform... hard to explain, but I prefer the image regardless of the loss of real estate compared to the 30".
Very white whites, excellent grey scale, very sharp text and not so bright as to be blinding. Calibrated it with a ColorVision datacolor Spyder 2 (not ultra pro level, but good enough for me) and its beautiful.
Plus it has HDMI and VGA inputs, and an option to have the blue power light be off when the display is on, and on (amber) when the display is in power-saving mode -- same behavior as the Apple displays.
Edit - and just one interesting tidbit... I have an Apple 30" display (original revision) and I like this 24" better. Brighter, more uniform... hard to explain, but I prefer the image regardless of the loss of real estate compared to the 30".
You can pick up an HP LP3065 cheaply (<$900) on eBay these days from fairly reputable close-out sellers.
(example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140231559822)
HP got out of the high-end monitor business apparently and discontinued them; no idea why.
I bought mine a couple of months ago & love it. Three dual-link DVI inputs, HDCP support, same 92% NTSC gamut S-IPS panel as the ACD 30" and Dell 3007WFP-HC.
(example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140231559822)
HP got out of the high-end monitor business apparently and discontinued them; no idea why.
I bought mine a couple of months ago & love it. Three dual-link DVI inputs, HDCP support, same 92% NTSC gamut S-IPS panel as the ACD 30" and Dell 3007WFP-HC.
Have you turned off the MPA feature?
I'm sure your life has moved on since this post, but in case you haven't tried it, push the button on the monitor that says, "MPA." This feature was added to give you the perception of faster refresh rate and reduce ghosting in games and video. But, it should always be turned off when you are reading text. That's what makes it look like it flickers and is probably giving you a headache. Unfortunately, the factory default setting is "on," but the button is conveniently located on the front panel, you just have to push it and your user experience will probably improve greatly.
I use a 245t at work and love it. It did take some work to calibrate the colors, particularly the red default setting was too saturated. However, once I'd found the right settings, I loved it. I personally prefer using it to the ACDs in our office, but I suppose to each their own.
As a side note, it's not great as a TV, even though the picture-in-picture is an awesome feature (which I sadly do not get to use at work). I have yet to find an LCD monitor that is a good TV or an LCD TV that is a good monitor. The monitors are too crisp, resulting in a grainy look to the TV source and the TVs make computer text look fuzzy and you have to compensate for their overscan. So, in your six screen set up, you may want to have a mix of TVs and monitors to use each for its strength.
You may also want to play with Spaces in Leopard for a while before investing in too many monitors. You do, after all, only have one pair of eyes and flipping between desktops takes almost no time.
I'm sure your life has moved on since this post, but in case you haven't tried it, push the button on the monitor that says, "MPA." This feature was added to give you the perception of faster refresh rate and reduce ghosting in games and video. But, it should always be turned off when you are reading text. That's what makes it look like it flickers and is probably giving you a headache. Unfortunately, the factory default setting is "on," but the button is conveniently located on the front panel, you just have to push it and your user experience will probably improve greatly.
I use a 245t at work and love it. It did take some work to calibrate the colors, particularly the red default setting was too saturated. However, once I'd found the right settings, I loved it. I personally prefer using it to the ACDs in our office, but I suppose to each their own.
As a side note, it's not great as a TV, even though the picture-in-picture is an awesome feature (which I sadly do not get to use at work). I have yet to find an LCD monitor that is a good TV or an LCD TV that is a good monitor. The monitors are too crisp, resulting in a grainy look to the TV source and the TVs make computer text look fuzzy and you have to compensate for their overscan. So, in your six screen set up, you may want to have a mix of TVs and monitors to use each for its strength.
You may also want to play with Spaces in Leopard for a while before investing in too many monitors. You do, after all, only have one pair of eyes and flipping between desktops takes almost no time.
Hi jablko,
thanks for your reply. I have tried the MPA setting but couldn't use it. It gives me the same headache I get from using a CRTs at 60Hz. I don't know why, but some people do not seem to notice this type of flickering, but for me, it's blinking like a sign in Las Vegas...
For my regular day-to-day work I use spaces all the time and love it. But for stock trading, I want to have everything visible at the same time.
If you don't mind, I would appreciate if you posted your calibrated 245T settings. Then I could try those.
HP LP3065!! Calibrated, this monitor is stunning and much cheaper than the 30" Apple. S-IPS, 3 DVI input. Zero ghosting in games @ 1920x1200 & 2560x1600.
R
Roger Pelizzari
Guest
Apple Cinema's calm vs. Samsungs super bright
”Whereas my Apple Displays are "calm" to look at, yet very sharp, and have accurate colors, the Samsungs were super bright, had a strange color cast and were not very sharp at all.“
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I'm a senior, so I also like the ”calm“ look, and sharp, readible text.
LED backlights seem to be have improved in the last year, so I'm weighing a LG 20“ LED display against a 20“ ACD.
Which do you think will be easiest on my eyes?
”Whereas my Apple Displays are "calm" to look at, yet very sharp, and have accurate colors, the Samsungs were super bright, had a strange color cast and were not very sharp at all.“
--------------
I'm a senior, so I also like the ”calm“ look, and sharp, readible text.
LED backlights seem to be have improved in the last year, so I'm weighing a LG 20“ LED display against a 20“ ACD.
Which do you think will be easiest on my eyes?