Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by AnthonyKinyon, Jun 26, 2007.
Apple Climbs To 4th In Notebook Sales
awesome. I'm excited to see Apple rise.
Cool, but I don't know how they can keep it up. Their cheapest 15" model is $2000, and I can configure a Dell with basically the exact same hardware for hundreds less.
And then the Macbook...you can get systems with GPUs, the new chipset, and larger screens for the same price.
That's Awesome !!!
Yes.. But you do have to look at the OS overall Mac OS X is superior to Windows Xp or Vista.
Yet you do have to spend several hundreds for the full Windows license. Ridiculous. Want to use OSX? Priceless.
If I could get a laptop for free and it could not run OSX, there's no way I'd be using it for anything. Sure, it would be a nice toy for a 5-year-old, but for me, not a chance.
I want to compare devices that are able to run OSX. Whatever is not compatible is not a part of my comparison...
I have been building my own computers for about 7 years (since I was around 14). However, every laptop I have had is a mac. Don't know why it just happens like that =)
I've never had a Dell but I noticed this thread earlier today seems to think differently.
Thanks. I actually created that thread for exactly this reason, because of claims like this ("I can configure a Dell that is exactly the same for hundreds less"), to say that "no, you can't" and "even with the same specs or even better specs, a 6.4 pound 1.45-1.65" thick Inspiron 1520 isn't "exactly the same" as an MBP.
Yes, but the reality is most people are already comfortable with Windows, so they need as few obstacles as possible to consider switching.
Except that you can.... I just did it myself and it came to around $250 difference, minus maybe $80 for the RAM. That's still close to $200 cheaper, and isn't as close as you can get. If you're fair about it and put it up against the mid range Macbook Pro to get the same GPU, it's not even close (plus depending on how you configure them, the 3 year warranty can make the system cheaper than the 2 year configuration). Then if you put it up against the 17" model it's even worse.
The one huge drawback to the current Dell's is they removed the DVI port! I'd probably have ordered one by now if not for that. I just don't know if I want to live with VGA only.
I guess the MBP isn't as outrageous as I was thinking, but still it is more. I'm sure you can get close to $800-1000 if you're configuring 17" models and don't mind dropping to a 2.2GHz chip.
keep up? you need to realize that a computer is made up of more than hardware. Your GUI is the MAIN influence in day to day opperations. The easier and quicker you can do something in an OS, the more you'll like it.
Also, for someone like me, design is priceless also. from that lovely glowing apple to the sleek backlite keyboard. I love the design effort apple puts into their computers.
In my mind there's no comparison.
Just in the case of the Dell price argument, last year, just after the Macbooks went on sale, I needed to buy a new computer. I looked at the Macbooks, but the Dells were way more bang for the buck. My computer was $1400, and with it came a ATI 1400 with 256 memory (compared to integrated video card), a 4 year warranty (compared with 1 year) with Complete Care (they fix accidental damage as well), 2 gb of RAM compared with 512 mb, a 15" screen rather than a 13.3" screen with resolutions of 1680x1050 rather than 1280x800, and a 120 gb hard drive compared to 60 gb. The computer I got did not have a camera and is slightly bigger (though I have no problems as far as portability go), but you can see how much better my computer's hardware was than what the Macbooks had to offer me.
Umm, two problems with this argument:
1) You can't, in fact, buy a Dell for hundreds less with the exact same hardware. Price up a new Inspiron close to a base MBP but not over and you get a $300 difference. But for that you're only getting the 8400GS GPU not the 8600GT, no LED backlit screen, no backlit keyboard, no shock sensor and, of course, a case with a much bulkier design.
2) Read the attached article, Apple has already beaten Dell according to that information, the top three are HP, Toshiba and Gateway. That, to me anyway, suggests that the budget slot has been taken by Gateway (which really are budget machines compared to Dell) while HP and Toshiba are definitely the machines of choice for business these days and that's going to be a tough market to crack for Apple. However it's also a market where the price isn't always the be-all and end-all so that might not be as big a deal. What IS going to hurt Apple in getting a bigger market share in the business market is the lack of an on-site warranty service as without it many businesses won't even consider switching.
Still, let's think about this for a minute, Apple - this niche manufacturer that's been declared dead more times than Dracula - managed to beat out Dell in notebook sales. That's pretty damn impressive no matter what your personal opinion of the company may be.
The problem with comparing the mid-range MBP is that you can't configure the Inspiron 1520 with a 2.4GHz CPU.
But yeah, even in your example, with a $250 difference or so, that's not a drastically difference price.
I think that $250 difference is pretty reasonable when you count the LED-backlit screen, 5.4 pound weight compared to 6.4 pound weight, 1" thickness compared to 1.45-1.65" thickness of the Inspiron, etc.
So my main point there was that a) the price difference isn't as dramatic as some people have made it sound and b) there's some major differences in size, weight and construction and LED-backlighting that are pretty big real-world differences.
You can configure the Inspiron 1520 with an 8600M GT (with 256MB of VRAM as well, which some people have criticized Apple for not including in the base model).
Apple sell A LOT of notebooks on their design and "coolness" rep. So lets hope they don'r ruin it with all the current problems with bad screens, pain peeling off etc. going on... I know a lot of students buying Macbooks - they could get PCs for much less but they are the iPod/Macbook generation
This is a fair point, Apple doesn't have a sort of mid-range option in that $1400 range that competes with some of what you can get with Dell in that price range.
This is more an issue that Apple doesn't make a 15" MacBook though... the pricing of the MacBook is more in line with smaller/more portable 13.3" machines from other companies.
"all the current problems" - you make it sound like it's an epidemic or something. Or for that matter, that those Dell, Toshiba and HP laptops don't have the same number of issues.
As for the rest - yes, Apple doesn't sell any of those $599 laptops you see at Best Buy, but have you ever tried using them? They're usually saddled with slow CPU's, crappy build quality, etc.
I don't think there are that many people who regret buying a MacBook over a $599 Acer laptop.
Zadillo, well, paint peeling off is a problem on both Macbook and MBP - I have two friends with white MBs, both have peeling/scratchy paint problem. I never saw that on my cheapo Dell Inspiron... And I just received a faulty MBP myself. Did you check out the poll regarding defective MB/MBP's on this site? The percentage was around 30-40% on MBPs. And don't tell me that "only the people with problems post/vote here". Obviously a lot (60-70%) have good experience. That's just not good enough IMHO.
What paint peels off on the MacBook Pro exactly? What part of the MBP is even painted?
As for the MacBook, what paint is there on that? I thought it had a glossy exterior - or is this on the interior?
Either way, is Apple not fixing it for those friends? As far as I know it isn't a common problem. I had only seen it on black MB's though.
Well the plastic is painted, obviously in some way. The MBP is silver, that can peel off. Several people here have reports on that, even after short use. On the MB the glossyness disappears in areas and it looks like the unit has been scratched by a screwdriver or something, although it has been taken care off like a baby.
And sorry, but I am not customer supporter for those friends - if they want to take it to Apple I'll let them decide, but my guess is that Apple will just blame it on wear and tear.
Sorry, I see that
No, I didn't see that poll; but there's a problem there, isn't there? A poll like that on a forum doesn't mean much. Frankly if I h ad known about it I probably wouldn't have posted anyway, but I would have been a "no" vote. It's artifically inflated though; you're going to be more likely to vote in a poll like that to express your displeasure, for example.
Surely you're not claiming that Apple overall has a 30-40% failure rate with MBP's. Looking at overlal customer satisfaction ratings, etc. that pretty clearly isn't the case.
That's of course why the industry looks at overall trends, not the poll in a particular forum for a small sample of people.
Either way, I think you're also being selective. You're focusing on MB and MBP owners with defects, but seemingly ignoring Dell owners, etc. who have had plenty of defects and problems too.
Actually I think the "faulty rate" on this site is more down to people here being more picky than the average user. Both friends I know with MBs would almost certainly have accepted the MBP with bleeding backlight that I received today and live with it, but users here are enthusiasts and don't accept that. So yes, I would guess the error rate - if you are picky - is pretty high on these things. And I am not saying there aren't any problems with Dell's etc too, of course there are. I just expect more from Apple, but apparently I shouldn't. The only Dell owner I know is me, and thats a 15" - screen is evenly lit and have no defects, paint is not peeling off or anything. But its not very good, which is why I want a MBP.
I think people just don't want to spend $500 more for the same computer they could get from HP or w/e. Mac OS X is GOOD, but honestly I haven't seen anything super revolutionary. It is a step up in terms of GUI from Windows, but as far as trying to do simple things like word documents it gets complicated with using that whole neo-office. Also .Mac you have to pay for and an email app like Outlook doesn't come with OS X. Those are the 2 main things people use computers for and gaming. So unfourtanately it will be a while before we see Apple at the top b/c of that.
Yeah, but you can't configure it with a 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo processor (as far as I know) or the LED screen. A quick glance through the Dell web site shows that there's a $291 price premium for the 2.4Ghz CPU and $150 dollars for the LED Screen. Considering that a 1520 comes in at $1,865 with the 8600GT spec you then need to add $441 to that for a grand total of $2,306. That's $193 less than the Apple but there's still a few toys you don't get in the Dell spec (keyboard, light sensor, shock sensor etc) and I believe that the MBP has a bigger battery as well. Oh, and that only includes Vista Home Premium not Ultimate so it's not entirely a fair comparison to OSX either.
Yes, the Dell is cheaper, but after you factor everything in (extra toys, form factor, physical stores for extra support if there's one close by, OS support as well as hardware for the first 90 days) there really is only about $100 in it.