I've had a few glitches here and there with Amazon with IE 5 under OS 9. Not sure what it could be, but sometimes I have to use the Dell in order to view my order status and such.
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Apple.com Site Redesign?
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Re: ?
A site that's better than the previous version, will draw more attention and will also convince possible costumers even faster to buy Apple products.
TJ.
A site that's better than the previous version, will draw more attention and will also convince possible costumers even faster to buy Apple products.
TJ.
zeldman.com is a fine site, although I disagree with his default color scheme, which is too bright, IMO. The weird thing about this story, though, is that the recruits are so forthcoming about the details of their Apple relationship. A major technology company shouldn't have to admit that it can't design its own website. If I were Apple's web team, I wouldn't be too pleased with Zeldman and the other fellow yakking about their inadequacies. Oh, and I too concur with the comment that Amazon is one of the best sites around. One of the other posters commented that he had problems using it with the classic Mac OS and IE, but I've never had any such difficulty.
Yale site somewhat drab.
With all due respect, if Apple's website had been designed similarly to Yale's, I would have had a hard time dropping a couple K on a Macintosh. The Yale site is nothing spectacular (read boring) and, in my opinion, doesn't present a "huge amount of content" in a particularly understandable way.
With all due respect, if Apple's website had been designed similarly to Yale's, I would have had a hard time dropping a couple K on a Macintosh. The Yale site is nothing spectacular (read boring) and, in my opinion, doesn't present a "huge amount of content" in a particularly understandable way.
Re: Yale site somewhat drab.
Have to agree with you!
Ok, the main page's JavaScript is cool, but the rest is so <homer>boring</homer>!
Have to agree with you!
Ok, the main page's JavaScript is cool, but the rest is so <homer>boring</homer>!
whoa!
i just had a look at the web archive of Apple's pre-OS X site. i'd never even seen that before. i've only known Apple since the introduction of OS X.
i hope the site moves away from the aqua look a bit. the Panther look is a welcome change.
i just had a look at the web archive of Apple's pre-OS X site. i'd never even seen that before. i've only known Apple since the introduction of OS X.i hope the site moves away from the aqua look a bit. the Panther look is a welcome change.
*falls to knees* Thank god they've not hired Jakob Nielson otherwise we'd all be doomed!!!
As for the Yale site... can't say I was impressed... another edu. site... what more can I say...
For simple usability...
http://www.fabrica.it/
isn't bad at all.... sometimes you just can't go wrong with white....
As for the Yale site... can't say I was impressed... another edu. site... what more can I say...
For simple usability...
http://www.fabrica.it/
isn't bad at all.... sometimes you just can't go wrong with white....
Originally posted by iGAV
*falls to knees* Thank god they've not hired Jakob Nielson otherwise we'd all be doomed!!!
Ha, that's pretty funny. Nielsen comes up all the time in usability studies in my grad work (Educational Technology). He knows his stuff.
But, damn, if he doesn't kill form in favor of function. Apple does a great job with both.
I've been reading alistapart.com for a long time and have looked at a lot of sites of those who are following web standards and css design and while I think there on the money in most regards I have to say that the designs are getting boring. Two or three columns, dashed or dotted lines, bold headings with a little icon of some sort to the left, nice line spacing, bright background. Most of these sites are great, don't get me wrong, but when you get a glut of sites that all have basically the same look it starts to become a drag. (if you go to a listapart.com or happycog and start surfing around you'll see what I mean) What I'm hoping to see is a new set of demands placed on these guys by Apple that should really push their style to new heights. That will be cool.
By the way to the person that inferred Apple should try to keep this secret -- that's silly. Companies hire consultants all the time for various tasks, and they've picked some good ones.
By the way to the person that inferred Apple should try to keep this secret -- that's silly. Companies hire consultants all the time for various tasks, and they've picked some good ones.
You have the option to pick 4 different color schemes on the zeldman.com site. Ahhh the beauty of CSS.
I understand that your seeing a pattern, but I still found your description quite amusing. Excluding Flash sites, you've probably just described almost every website in existance (Surprised you left out single column layouts with solid borders and muted backgrounds).
Douglas Bowman and Jeffrey Zeldman are at the forefront of the web standards movement, who else would better suit Apple?
It's not these guys that are the problem, it's browser innovation. This is one of the key issues that web standards attempts to address. If you are trying to design a site that needs to work on all browsers, you are limited by the weakest link (or the weakest browser in this case). If Microsoft or Apple or Mozilla would start to take browsers (and CSS) to the next level, you might see more interesting CSS designed websites. With Netscape going under and all innovation of IE put on hold for 3 years, how can anyone expect to innovate, the tools simply aren't there. Yes, you could use javascript and flash or other flashy design languages however, these languages are not conducive to designing with web standards. They also have trouble rendering on the next generation of web devices (phones, PDA's, etc.) Browser innovation will ultimately enable more exciting CSS design that is accesible for everyone.
Canned?
I think Zeldman and Bowman are excellent choices for the job of making Apple.com better. However, I heard a rumor today that they got fired by Apple for divulging the fact that they were working on the project. Anyone know anything about that?
I think Zeldman and Bowman are excellent choices for the job of making Apple.com better. However, I heard a rumor today that they got fired by Apple for divulging the fact that they were working on the project. Anyone know anything about that?
Agreed. I don't think they're a problem, and honestly I'm thankful for a lot of their advocacy. I'm just pointing out some of my observations regarding alot of these sites.
DrunkMonk: I get what you mean, but I think if you check out most of the newer compliant sites, you'll see what I'm talking about as well.
I really don't have much difficulty creating Table based sites that look and function essentially exactly the same across browsers and platforms. And personally I think a combination of CSS, and sliced images layed out with proper HTML tables provides a lot more variety. Creatively, I can do a hell of a lot more in Image Ready or Fireworks than CSS alone can ever allow. I liked sliced up menus etc. and it's still possible to produce an excellent site this way. CSS is essential for text no matter what though.
I'm not sure you are fully aware of what CSS can do. Check out the CSS Zen Garden to see what I am talking about:
CSS Zen Garden
In my opinion, CSS can do as much or more than standard HTML with tables. And all at a fraction of the load time.
I can't just fall off silent.
No, I get it really. Hmmm maybe on top of catching up on css and xhtml I should take a creative writing course so I can explain myself thoroughly and irrefutably.
Zen Garden is more of what I love to see. It's great--definately a good sign.
Back to Apple, I'm sure they'll pull off a mighty spiffy site.
No, I get it really. Hmmm maybe on top of catching up on css and xhtml I should take a creative writing course so I can explain myself thoroughly and irrefutably.
Zen Garden is more of what I love to see. It's great--definately a good sign.
Back to Apple, I'm sure they'll pull off a mighty spiffy site.
It is certainly a well done site and compared to other Universities I looked at, it is at the top but the Apple site could not look like that because the two goals could not be more opposite. Apple has to attract, sell themselves a bit, inform and sell more. The Yale goal is to lay out an index so that you can get information rapidly and directly... selling? only a little. The HP site has more of the Yale look to it but they have not made it clear where you go once you get to the opening page. Once into that site it is not simple to navigate either.
Apple's browser look is certanly good. I hope they keep that simplicity and clarity and not go down the path of their commercials.
Re: Secret Update?
Could be, could be. The tabs do have that sorta toned down aqua look to them, besides adding the blue logo.
I don't know, though. That could just be some experiment or other. Personally, I think if Apple really is redesigning their site, it would be a bit more drastic than this.
<edit> after screwing around a bit, i found this other page with the same differences. Check it </edit>
<edit again>
hunh. these pages have a switch tab....
does this foretell the restart of the switch campaign?
probably not, but weird.
</edit again>
Could be, could be. The tabs do have that sorta toned down aqua look to them, besides adding the blue logo.
I don't know, though. That could just be some experiment or other. Personally, I think if Apple really is redesigning their site, it would be a bit more drastic than this.
<edit> after screwing around a bit, i found this other page with the same differences. Check it </edit>
<edit again>
hunh. these pages have a switch tab....
does this foretell the restart of the switch campaign?
probably not, but weird.
</edit again>
I'm gonna say a great big "NO" to the pages linked above.
CSS only used for fonts, font tags still left in the code and messy table-based layout scream "I'm not Zeldman's work".
I think those are just vestiges of older designs...
CSS only used for fonts, font tags still left in the code and messy table-based layout scream "I'm not Zeldman's work".
I think those are just vestiges of older designs...