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For me, the issue is less to do with Apple's commission rate(s) and more to do with their general practices: inconsistency with approving/disproving apps, lack of communication to developers for why an app was rejected, limiting companies like Amazon from linking to their web site for book purchases, as well as the inconsistency with the requirement to force service subscriptions to be done through Apple's payment processing. Google, Microsoft, etc. do not have to have their paid hosted email service completed through Apple but Hey does. Apple has carefully worded their terms of service to allow these big players while making it difficult for new entrants.

I feel the entire situation could be resolved by burying a toggle deep in settings allowing the installation of apps from other sources.
 
The issue is that developers — particularly those in direct competition with Apple such as Spotify, Netflix, etc. — aren’t able to choose which business model works for themselves, which puts them at a direct disadvantage against Apple and may pose harm to consumers. The antitrust case is actually very straightforward.
Except Apple created a category just for them so they don’t have to give Apple any of their revenue stream. Of course doing this doesn’t help Apple’s argument that they rightfully deserve a cut of 3rd party developers revenue streams.
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For me, the issue is less to do with Apple's commission rate(s) and more to do with their general practices: inconsistency with approving/disproving apps, lack of communication to developers for why an app was rejected, limiting companies like Amazon from linking to their web site for book purchases, as well as the inconsistency with the requirement to force service subscriptions to be done through Apple's payment processing. Google, Microsoft, etc. do not have to have their paid hosted email service completed through Apple but Hey does. Apple has carefully worded their terms of service to allow these big players while making it difficult for new entrants.

I feel the entire situation could be resolved by burying a toggle deep in settings allowing the installation of apps from other sources.
Or just allow developers to offer their own payment options along side Apple’s IAP. Then customers can choose whether they want to pay 30% or 15% more to have Apple manage their purchases/subscriptions.
 
The question was never if the 30% Apple charges are comparable to the 30% that Google or MS charges.

The thing is that 99% of Google Android users will not jump through the hoops of installing an alternate app store. See how many people talk about the Amazon one, particularly after they stopped giving free apps.

That would be something regulators would look at. Remember the Microsoft IE case: you could install Netscape, but people didn't.
 
Apple's study shows that Apple's prices are fine. Next, Coke studies show that cola is a healthy beverage and Big Tobacco studies show that smoking is harmless.

Snarky: Is this a real argument? What actual claims by Coke and Big Tobacco are you taking about?

If you can produce the evidence, your claim might be interesting. Otherwise...
 
I think you just named the alternative. Its called Google Play store. The iPhone is not its own industry. Its a part of the smartphone industry, in which it has a minority share.
What you are arguing is that the existing competition is enough to prevent antitrust legislation to even apply.

I think this is very likely the case in the US, where AFAIK you need to have an actual monopoly for this kind of antitrust violation to apply, but not in the EU where it's enough to have a "position of strength" in the market. Apple has definitely no monopoly in the smartphone industry, but it has IMHO pretty clearly a position of strength.

For this reason I don't think the case against Apple will go anywhere in the US, but it likely has at least more chances in the EU.
 
It was very smart of Cook to do this, and might tip the scales in his favor. With some of the other online stores taking up to a 75% cut, it makes Apple look like a fair deal. They also can point out how they've basically created an entire industry (app development) that has been a boon to the economy.
 
These numbers are glossing over the entire basis for the anticompetitive complaint. That Apple forces developers to use their payment processing system only if they are offering certain types of goods that happen to also compete with Apple's own offerings.

So Google charges 30% like Apple. Sounds fair, right? The difference is Google allows companies to use their own payment processing networks from within the app if they don't want to use Google's service and avoid the 30% fee. And then it only applies to digital goods like ebooks, movies, and music. Companies like Uber and Airbnb are free to sign up new customers for direct payment and avoid the transaction fee altogether while Netflix, Spotify, and Amazon's digital marketplace are prohibited from doing the same.

Apple can spin it all they want, but they are going to have to address the inconsistencies in their policies that harm companies offering goods competing with what Apple also sells.
 
Apple's study shows that Apple's prices are fine. Next, Coke studies show that cola is a healthy beverage and Big Tobacco studies show that smoking is harmless.
So I take it your complaint is that others charge the same fees? Those are easily confirmed, so your snark is off target. Should everyone charge these fees? That’s a valid point, but to presume someone does a marketing study somehow misleads is way off. A bit like saying a study which says 100 degrees is hot can’t be right because an air conditioning manufacturer paid for it
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These numbers are glossing over the entire basis for the anticompetitive complaint. That Apple forces developers to use their payment processing system only if they are offering certain types of goods that happen to also compete with Apple's own offerings.

So Google charges 30% like Apple. Sounds fair, right? The difference is Google allows companies to use their own payment processing networks from within the app if they don't want to use Google's service and avoid the 30% fee. And then it only applies to digital goods like ebooks, movies, and music. Companies like Uber and Airbnb are free to sign up new customers for direct payment and avoid the transaction fee altogether while Netflix, Spotify, and Amazon's digital marketplace are prohibited from doing the same.

Apple can spin it all they want, but they are going to have to address the inconsistencies in their policies that harm companies offering goods competing with what Apple also sells.
Except you are missing the lion in the room. Firms like Spotify do use their own networks for payment and bypass Apple altogether. Any firm that wishes to can establish accounts outside Apple and simply have their apps downloaded from the App Store with a sign on from their own site. No fees to Apple involved
 
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I think you just named the alternative. Its called Google Play store. The iPhone is not its own industry. Its a part of the smartphone industry, in which it has a minority share.
It's an argument and Apple will probably use it, I guess, still I think it hold a sufficient part of the market something like 45% in the US and over 50% if you consider only mid and end high en phones -more for tablets- that i hope lawmakers will do something about it.

It's nothing against Apple, I have an iPad and an iPad Pro but they will not really be useful to me, only fun toys as long as they don't do anything.
 
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Except you are missing the lion in the room. Firms like Spotify do use their own networks for payment and bypass Apple altogether. Any firm that wishes to can establish accounts outside Apple and simply have their apps downloaded from the App Store with a sign on from their own site. No fees to Apple involved
This is only possible for "reader" apps, since Apple made up an arbitrary category for them with special rules. If your app is not merely a "reader" app, Apple mandates the use of their in-app payment system even if you provide your own external and independent payment network on your own site.
 
This is only possible for "reader" apps, since Apple made up an arbitrary category for them with special rules. If your app is not merely a "reader" app, Apple mandates the use of their in-app payment system even if you provide your own external and independent payment network on your own site.
And one should point out that this “reader” category just happens to mostly apply to apps where Apple is a direct competitor. If you don’t compete with an Apple service you‘re SOL.
 
isn't it a bit peculiar that all the app stores charge the exact same percentage? if thats not collusion what is? Clearly they're all guilty of the same thing - high commission
 
I feel the entire situation could be resolved by burying a toggle deep in settings allowing the installation of apps from other sources.
No, even if Apple guaranteed every developer $100,000 just for putting an app on the app store, there would be those developers asking why doesn’t Apple make it $200,000?

“I don’t want to have to make my app fun or useful in order to make money, why should I have to?”
I think it hold a sufficient part of the market something like 45% in the US and over 50% if you consider only mid and end high en phones -more for tablets- that i hope lawmakers will do something about it.
And, if you slice it differently and only consider phones named iPhone, it’s 100% of that market!!!! MONOPOLY!!! /s
 
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what? Netflix is subscription based and people sign up on their website today.
Friction is added in acquiring subscribers as the options to a developer in direct competition with Apple (the “reader apps” exception, basically) are as follows:
  1. Disable signups in-app altogether. Apple does not allow apps to direct users out of the app to sign up or even mention the existence of other payment options, so users may not be able to figure out how to use the app.
  2. Accept Apple’s 30% cut that Apple itself (mostly) doesn’t have to pay. So, for the same IAP price, Apple is taking substantially more money compared to a direct competitor. 30% is a substantial cut to revenue no matter how you slice it — this may cause one to lose money.
  3. Raise the IAP price to recoup some or all of the 30% cut that Apple takes. If you’re otherwise competing against Apple at the same price (think Spotify and Apple Music both going for $9.99/mo for individuals), you’re at a competitive disadvantage because you’re priced higher — this pushes people toward the cheaper option.
  4. Cut costs (and thereby cut services) for IAP subscriptions. This also places developers at a competitive disadvantage against Apple because they may wind up offering substantially less to users for the same price compared to Apple’s offering.
Every one of these poses harm to competition, which in turn harms consumers. This is why the clearest-cut (least-likely, mind you) solution to this is for Apple to decide whether it wants to be the referee or play the game, but trying to do both at the same time will inevitably raise concerns regarding fairness to those against whom it’s competing.

Like I’ve said often, Apple would strongly prefer to answer that question on its own, definitively, before a government entity steps in and answers it for them.

And, if you slice it differently and only consider phones named iPhone, it’s 100% of that market!!!! MONOPOLY!!! /s
Monopolies can and, in some cases, should be defined narrowly. Say, for example, a developer has a finished iOS app that Apple simply will not accept in the App Store for one reason or another. They can’t take that app and just sell it on Android — it won’t work; they have to start from scratch on an app for a non-iOS platform (well, except Macs, I suppose, but not every iOS app should be a Mac app). The argument for defining Apple as having a monopoly on iOS software distribution is pretty straightforward.
 
While both the Google Play Store and the App store charge the same there is a fundamental difference between the two. I don't have to use the Google Play Store if i don't want to pay. There is no such choice on the App store, that's what makes it it a monopoly.
It’s not a monopoly, as the long list of digital marketplaces demonstrate. iPhones are a minority of phone sales. Thus nothing Apple does could be monopolistic by definition.
what you are really meaning is Apple locks you into it’s software market if you buy its hardware. But that is not a monopolistic practice unless Apple had say, 80% of the phone market.
 
NO mention that AAPL has a Complete & Total Stranglehold on "App Discovery" in their "curated" iOS App Store !

OR that AAPL "Plays Favorites" !

It is my opinion, that AAPL should cut its Commission to 3% for ALL apps that it has never recommended in the iOS App Store here in the States !

Furthermore, for ALL apps that have been in the App Store for more than one year, AND have had more than 100 App Updates, AAPL's Cut should be 3% for a full-year from the time they first recommended it !

If Cook & Schiller wanted to, they could very easily clean-up & improve the App Store !

They will push back until UN-Discovered Gem Apps gain traction, & then they will have to explain to the General Public how that happened !

In other words, how is it possible that Gem Apps have been UN-Discovered ?

Lots of attention goes to the BIG companies, but there are probably 1K OR more Gem Apps that have NOT yet Gained Traction in the App Store !

Most because AAPL wants the UN-tapped opportunity for themselves !
 
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It’s not a monopoly, as the long list of digital marketplaces demonstrate. iPhones are a minority of phone sales. Thus nothing Apple does could be monopolistic by definition.
what you are really meaning is Apple locks you into it’s software market if you buy its hardware. But that is not a monopolistic practice unless Apple had say, 80% of the phone market.
What about on the tablet market? Apple as 64,34% in the US according to one source. Microsoft had 80% in the days it what convicted but that's not a hard figure and it was a lot more open on Microsoft's 80% then on iPad's 64% if you understand my drift.
 
Whilst Apple funded, you have to believe these numbers because they are easily confirmed. The issue could be if Apple are unique in disallowing developers to advertise an off-app subscription plan, or if they're treating developers significantly worse than other stores.
I disagree. If Apple were the only platform for apps what you say might be true, but given their are non-iOS platform's Apple's treatment is irrelevant since developers have other options.
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What about on the tablet market? Apple as 64,34% in the US according to one source. Microsoft had 80% in the days it what convicted but that's not a hard figure and it was a lot more open on Microsoft's 80% then on iPad's 64% if you understand my drift.
MS was convicted because it used it's OS market share to force IE on machines, a conviction that was overturned on appeal.
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Every one of these poses harm to competition, which in turn harms consumers. This is why the clearest-cut (least-likely, mind you) solution to this is for Apple to decide whether it wants to be the referee or play the game, but trying to do both at the same time will inevitably raise concerns regarding fairness to those against whom it’s competing.

the question is how is the consumer harmed? If you look at prices in the Mac App Store, apps that are there and on a developer's site are often the same price, indicating developers do not lower prices but simply pocket the difference; thus no consumer harm form Apple taking 30%.

Monopolies can and, in some cases, should be defined narrowly. Say, for example, a developer has a finished iOS app that Apple simply will not accept in the App Store for one reason or another. They can’t take that app and just sell it on Android — it won’t work; they have to start from scratch on an app for a non-iOS platform (well, except Macs, I suppose, but not every iOS app should be a Mac app). The argument for defining Apple as having a monopoly on iOS software distribution is pretty straightforward.
It's simply the developer's tough luck for betting on the wrong horse. There were plenty of alternatives, they just failed to chose wisely and deserve to fail.
 
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I think it is important to point out that when competition can exist, there has been a war on the cut. Steam and epic are dueling between 30% and 12%. Let’s see Apple allow competition app stores, how well would it fare then?
 
Well that escalated quickly. I wonder if Brad Smith told Congress about MS store fees vs Apple.
 
Or just allow developers to offer their own payment options along side Apple’s IAP. Then customers can choose whether they want to pay 30% or 15% more to have Apple manage their purchases/subscriptions.
Given apps on the Mac App store are usually the same price if bought directly, consumers are not likely to see a price cut; developers will just enjoy the extra money.

Now, if regulators said Apple can only take 15% and developer must cut prices accordingly, then it is a different story. My guess is developers would scream bloody murder if that was the deal. Hell, Apple, if they wanted to play hardball, could offer a rebate to purchasers for app store purchases to let developers lose direct sales for a while.
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Well that escalated quickly. I wonder if Brad Smith told Congress about MS store fees vs Apple.

Probably, since MS' story of 5% fees has a lot of exceptions, such as games. It's a nice PR move but the real story is not as simple.
 
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