Apple Complies with iPad '4G' Marketing Ruling in Australia, Faces New Complaint in Norway

[Chlloret]

I don't understand why Apple sells the 4g version of the iPad outside North America. It makes no sense -- if people outside the area with compatible wireless networks really want the 4g because they travel here, then they can just pick one up in the US or Canada anyway (usually much cheaper than in their home country, too!).

Because the new iPad is outside the US/Canada FASTER then the supported LTE? After all, it IS delivering 4G speeds, even if they do not come thru LTE. Here in Spain I have steady 35Mbit/s, LTE will come, if at all, sometime in 2014, what do I care what some people need to be written in an ad? I'm more interested in the actual performance. And it does exactly what is says on the tin (or the carton)

On a trip to the US I can now use LTE as well, not so good or fast then our networks here, but still better then what they called 3G there before.

 

[Chlloret]

Fine, call it 3G+ then and be done with it. The new iPad supports up to LTE 4G in Canada and the US and up to 3G+ elsewhere.

Not really. At the moment it is not supporting 4G anywhere. No device is, there is no such thing then 4G.

If you take the marketing term 4G, it supports it pretty much everywhere, in the US and Canada "up to LTE" but that is still slower then what we have here in Europe, without LTE. Even the existing (and not supported) LTE networks are in practice slower, with the exception of sweden but there also only in very limided aereas.

 

[theluggage]

If you take the marketing term 4G, it supports it pretty much everywhere

I don't know how many times this needs repeating before it sinks in, but you are talking about the "marketing term 4G" as it is used in North America.

In the countries complaining, "4G" always refers to LTE or WiMax, while HSPA+ etc. are still called "3G". While it may make no more technical sense than the US usage, that is how regulators and carriers use the term.

As I understand it, LTE may not have an immediate speed advantage over HSPA+ etc. but it does have potential coverage and spectrum usage advantages - so having LTE support would be good future-proofing, as LTE rolls out in Europe over the next few years (not everybody in Europe can get HSPA+ and future expansion may well focus on LTE).

 

[theluggage]

Eh?

Sorry - off topic. British PC keyboards have the '@', '"', '~' and several other symbols in quite different places to US keyboards, and manage to include '$', '#' and '£' keys, since they're all useful in coding. (This has pre-IBM PC roots, too).

Apple 'British' keyboards are pretty much the US layout with the '#' removed (you have to do opt-3) and replaced with the '£'.

Its very annoying if you are swapping between PC and Mac, using a virtual PC or want to plug a generic USB keyboard into a Mini or Pro. Fortunately some kind peeps have made keyboard config files that fix the latter problem but it fails the "just works" test.

 

[Chlloret]

I don't know how many times this needs repeating before it sinks in, but you are talking about the "marketing term 4G" as it is used in North America.

In the countries complaining, "4G" always refers to LTE or WiMax, while HSPA+ etc. are still called "3G". While it may make no more technical sense than the US usage, that is how regulators and carriers use the term.

As I understand it, LTE may not have an immediate speed advantage over HSPA+ etc. but it does have potential coverage and spectrum usage advantages - so having LTE support would be good future-proofing, as LTE rolls out in Europe over the next few years (not everybody in Europe can get HSPA+ and future expansion may well focus on LTE).

No, no and no. Really. If you buy a new iPad and KNOW about the different tech that is used in wireless transmissions worldwide, or in other words, if you work in the industry, preferably as a tech guy, then you KNOW what the new iPad can and can not do. You belong to the chosen few, that see some light in a huge room of darkness.

However, if you buy the new iPad because you want a wireless conected device that works as fast as possible in any given part of the world and Apple tells you, that the new iPad can do just that, you are also in luck because that is exactly what it does.

I do not know anybody outside my work (I do work in this field) that is even remotly interested how you call the tech, 3G is slower then 4G, thats normally the knowledge thats prevailing.

Now, the new iPad is faster then the iPad2. Heck, its faster then ANY tablet out there. The speed difference between my iPad2 and the new iPad here in Barcelona is staggering, getting an app from the store now takes seconds, if that, with 35Mbit/s and more downloads, a far cry from the lucky 5Mbit/s you could hit with the iPad2.

There is no LTE involved. And please, since when do you buy a electronic gadget with future proofing in mind? Hello? LTE is, if at all, coming here in 2014 and even then in selected test areas, who cares about that today? Nobody could buy anything anymore because they might change the standard in the future or make existing ones better. The existing "3G" network here that gives you up to 42Mbit/s is being worked on to go up to 128Mbit/s, even 156Mbit/s soon, soon meaning within the next few years. Then I'm stuck with my then 3 year old
iPad that can "only" reach 42Mbit/s. Should I not buy it because of that?

If the incompatability of the new iPad to existing or future (in Britains case) LTE networks is the dealbreaker, there is a very simple solution. DO NOT BUY IT. You KNOW its not going to work, its writen on the product, its said on the website, the salesperson tells you and your provider refuses to sell you a contract with it, so why buy it anyway? Simply to complain?

 

[Lennholm]

No, no and no. Really. If you buy a new iPad and KNOW about the different tech that is used in wireless transmissions worldwide, or in other words, if you work in the industry, preferably as a tech guy, then you KNOW what the new iPad can and can not do. You belong to the chosen few, that see some light in a huge room of darkness.

However, if you buy the new iPad because you want a wireless conected device that works as fast as possible in any given part of the world and Apple tells you, that the new iPad can do just that, you are also in luck because that is exactly what it does.

I do not know anybody outside my work (I do work in this field) that is even remotly interested how you call the tech, 3G is slower then 4G, thats normally the knowledge thats prevailing.

Now, the new iPad is faster then the iPad2. Heck, its faster then ANY tablet out there. The speed difference between my iPad2 and the new iPad here in Barcelona is staggering, getting an app from the store now takes seconds, if that, with 35Mbit/s and more downloads, a far cry from the lucky 5Mbit/s you could hit with the iPad2.

There is no LTE involved. And please, since when do you buy a electronic gadget with future proofing in mind? Hello? LTE is, if at all, coming here in 2014 and even then in selected test areas, who cares about that today? Nobody could buy anything anymore because they might change the standard in the future or make existing ones better. The existing "3G" network here that gives you up to 42Mbit/s is being worked on to go up to 128Mbit/s, even 156Mbit/s soon, soon meaning within the next few years. Then I'm stuck with my then 3 year old
iPad that can "only" reach 42Mbit/s. Should I not buy it because of that?

If the incompatability of the new iPad to existing or future (in Britains case) LTE networks is the dealbreaker, there is a very simple solution. DO NOT BUY IT. You KNOW its not going to work, its writen on the product, its said on the website, the salesperson tells you and your provider refuses to sell you a contract with it, so why buy it anyway? Simply to complain?

You say that Apple promises that the iPad works as fast as possible in any given part of the world, that would indeed mean that they're LYING in their marketing. The fastest cellular connection available here is LTE and guess what, the iPad can't use it, so I would not be getting the fastest connection possible.
And why do you try to use your own point of reference as some kind of universal point? Why would it matter to us that you wont be getting LTE until 2014? We have LTE now!
You're right that you have the choice to not buy it if you don't like the incompatibility, the problem is that Apple tries to obscure the fact that it's incompatible. They use, as part of the name of the device, a term that here is equal to LTE while the device is actually incompatible with this. That is misleading.

 

[Chlloret]

You say that Apple promises that the iPad works as fast as possible in any given part of the world, that would indeed mean that they're LYING in their marketing. The fastest cellular connection available here is LTE and guess what, the iPad can't use it, so I would not be getting the fastest connection possible.
And why do you try to use your own point of reference as some kind of universal point? Why would it matter to us that you wont be getting LTE until 2014? We have LTE now!
You're right that you have the choice to not buy it if you don't like the incompatibility, the problem is that Apple tries to obscure the fact that it's incompatible. They use, as part of the name of the device, a term that here is equal to LTE while the device is actually incompatible with this. That is misleading.

How can it be missleading if you point out the facts? So you KNOW that it is not working with your LTE. Why do you think then, that other people are misslead if you where not? Are they all dumb or what? Do you really think that hordes of people go and spend $500+ blind on a device they NEED to be working on there LTE square mile? Without asking ANY questions? Without reading whats writen on the carton? Without talking to friends or the lokal geek that "knows" things? And of course without listening to the sales person.

Granted, Sweden is the only place where LTE actually beats the fast 3G in other places. Just. If you are lucky. But I doubt that you will notice in practice if you download a file wich 40 Mbit/s or 45 Mbit/s, I wonder when you actually use those speeds in the first place.

The practice speeds in Sweden mobile are anyway very seldom close to those maximums. 20Mbit/s and less is far more common.

So, please show me the people that were missled and are sitting there with there unusable devices in Stockholm crying. They can bring there device back and will get a full refund. End of story. How many did do that? How many did do that in Australia? Where the only LTE usable coverage is centered on 2% of the landmass? Any?

 

[Phooto]

If the incompatability of the new iPad to existing or future (in Britains case) LTE networks is the dealbreaker, there is a very simple solution. DO NOT BUY IT. You KNOW its not going to work, its writen on the product, its said on the website, the salesperson tells you and your provider refuses to sell you a contract with it, so why buy it anyway? Simply to complain?

If you read (and listen to) my post here - you will see that the salesperson in the UK confirmed that the product works on 4G, on 4G networks in the UK and across the whole world.

The website even says it works on 4G and NOT on 3G. Worse advice than anything Apple may have misled people with.

 

[Lennholm]

How can it be missleading if you point out the facts? So you KNOW that it is not working with your LTE. Why do you think then, that other people are misslead if you where not? Are they all dumb or what? Do you really think that hordes of people go and spend $500+ blind on a device they NEED to be working on there LTE square mile? Without asking ANY questions? Without reading whats writen on the carton? Without talking to friends or the lokal geek that "knows" things? And of course without listening to the sales person.

Granted, Sweden is the only place where LTE actually beats the fast 3G in other places. Just. If you are lucky. But I doubt that you will notice in practice if you download a file wich 40 Mbit/s or 45 Mbit/s, I wonder when you actually use those speeds in the first place.

The practice speeds in Sweden mobile are anyway very seldom close to those maximums. 20Mbit/s and less is far more common.

So, please show me the people that were missled and are sitting there with there unusable devices in Stockholm crying. They can bring there device back and will get a full refund. End of story. How many did do that? How many did do that in Australia? Where the only LTE usable coverage is centered on 2% of the landmass? Any?

I know because I'm interested in Apple and want to know things about the products, so I research. But what actually brought this to my attention was that it started making headlines when people started pointing out that Apple's marketing might give the wrong impression since Apple themselves doesn't make it clear. On the contrary, their marketing is confusing people, and that's why people complain. The confusion has been alleviated, not because of something Apple did, but because others started pointing it out.
The fact that people have submitted formal complaints means that people really have been given the wrong impression. They may not even have reached the point of purchase, instead being alerted to their erroneus impression before, the fact that they got the wrong impression in the first place means the information was misleading.
Most importantly, you shouldn't have to do research about a product to learn a fact that refutes a statement made in the most prominent marketing info, that info shouldn't have been there to begin with.

 

[Chlloret]

I know because I'm interested in Apple and want to know things about the products, so I research. But what actually brought this to my attention was that it started making headlines when people started pointing out that Apple's marketing might give the wrong impression since Apple themselves doesn't make it clear. On the contrary, their marketing is confusing people, and that's why people complain. The confusion has been alleviated, not because of something Apple did, but because others started pointing it out.
The fact that people have submitted formal complaints means that people really have been given the wrong impression. They may not even have reached the point of purchase, instead being alerted to their erroneus impression before, the fact that they got the wrong impression in the first place means the information was misleading.
Most importantly, you shouldn't have to do research about a product to learn a fact that refutes a statement made in the most prominent marketing info, that info shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Well, you speaking of the 2 people (or was it three?) out of about 60 Million in the UK that complained? Yeah. Right.

I wish I had only problems like that to worry about.These people should get a life.

I can understand if anybody had any kind of damage but to complain about something, that has nothing to do with oneself, when these people are not even considering the item for purchase or moaning about features (here LTE) not working when the network in question does not even exist, is beond me.

Just to boast that they "showed it to the big guys" and managed to have a Symbol changed on the website or a piece of cardboard being installed stating that the iPad is not working on a non existing network, seems to be the goal for the day.

I do not want some complaining bunch of people to "protect" me as consumer from the big bad advertising world and at the same time putting me down as a stupid, uninfomed, misled idiot. I am perfectly capable to know that pigs do not fly and I am perfectly capable to find out about a product I spend a good chunk of a monthly income on.

Who are these people that they think and act like everyone else is just stupid?

----------

If you read (and listen to) my post here - you will see that the salesperson in the UK confirmed that the product works on 4G, on 4G networks in the UK and across the whole world.

The website even says it works on 4G and NOT on 3G. Worse advice than anything Apple may have misled people with.

I did and I answered to your post. It is also clear that Apple got nothing to do with this. On Apples Website it is very, VERY clear what is working and what not. The carphone warehouse got no relation what so ever with Apple. The only reason to get anything there is to get it on credit. And if anything, one should talk to them, not to Apple.
Was it not the carphone warehouse that sold the EVO 4G LTE phone at xmas? That also was only working in the states, nevermind that the UK does not even have any LTE network, at least nothing comercial working. Even the test networks in London and Wales will have to change frequencies (or at least there band within the frequency) so ANY LTE device you buy today might be absolet by the time LTE comes on line next year or the year after.

 

[Lennholm]

Well, you speaking of the 2 people (or was it three?) out of about 60 Million in the UK that complained? Yeah. Right.

I wish I had only problems like that to worry about.These people should get a life.

I can understand if anybody had any kind of damage but to complain about something, that has nothing to do with oneself, when these people are not even considering the item for purchase or moaning about features (here LTE) not working when the network in question does not even exist, is beond me.

Just to boast that they "showed it to the big guys" and managed to have a Symbol changed on the website or a piece of cardboard being installed stating that the iPad is not working on a non existing network, seems to be the goal for the day.

I do not want some complaining bunch of people to "protect" me as consumer from the big bad advertising world and at the same time putting me down as a stupid, uninfomed, misled idiot. I am perfectly capable to know that pigs do not fly and I am perfectly capable to find out about a product I spend a good chunk of a monthly income on.

Who are these people that they think and act like everyone else is just stupid?

----------



I did and I answered to your post. It is also clear that Apple got nothing to do with this. On Apples Website it is very, VERY clear what is working and what not. The carphone warehouse got no relation what so ever with Apple. The only reason to get anything there is to get it on credit. And if anything, one should talk to them, not to Apple.
Was it not the carphone warehouse that sold the EVO 4G LTE phone at xmas? That also was only working in the states, nevermind that the UK does not even have any LTE network, at least nothing comercial working. Even the test networks in London and Wales will have to change frequencies (or at least there band within the frequency) so ANY LTE device you buy today might be absolet by the time LTE comes on line next year or the year after.

The consumer boards of Australia, Norway and Sweden wouldn't look into the matter because of two or three people, let alone people in a completely different country.
I suppose the rest of your post is also exclusively about the UK since you go on about a "non existing network".

This isn't about protecting stupid people, it's about Apple being responsible and not use disingenuous communication, which you should expect from every company. Just because people should be smart enough to see beyond the confusing information doesn't mean it's ok for Apple to use wording that could deceive people. For example, just because you're smart enough not to click suspicious links doesn't make it alright for me to send you a link to a trojan.

Also you have to have reasonable expectations on how much research people do about the products they buy. When I worked for AppleCare I had customers calling after they bought an iPad and were wondering how they activate Flash or install MS Office.
Those people certainly should have done more research but if a person goes to the Apple website, see the "iPad WiFi + 4G" and know they have "4G" i.e. LTE in their area it's perfectly understandable if they assume that that's all there is to it and that there is no catch.
Most people haven't been given a reason to suspect that perhaps 4G ≠ 4G. Well, now they have obviously, but not thanks to Apple.

 

[lilo777]

Why some many people are trying

to be more catholic than the Pope? Apple admitted the wrongdoing. Obviously the advertising was misleading. Apple going over the board with their BS advertising is not exactly something new (remember those "retina" screens? or unbreakable glass in iPhone 4?)

 

[alphaod]

It's not the 4G that's the problem. The problem is Apple advertising it's compatible with next generation networks AKA LTE when it's not compatible in those networks.

 

[aristotle]

I still don't see the problem. Australia's government is being pedantic. The iPad does support LTE 4G in North America and anyone visiting Canada or the US can use their iPad with the AT&T or Canadian LTE networks with a SIM bought in the North American country they are visiting. They can also use up to DC HSPA (up to 42 Mbits/sec) on any carrier that supports that standard or HSPA+ at up to 21 Mbits/sec.

So essentially, the iPad will support LTE on a set of frequencies in any country you happen to be in if the carrier uses those frequencies for LTE otherwise they will fall back to the fastest HSPA standard available. Don't blame Apple for other countries choosing different frequencies.

 

[RikRik]

Consumer Protection

I still don't see the problem. Australia's government is being pedantic. The iPad does support LTE 4G in North America and anyone visiting Canada or the US can use their iPad with the AT&T or Canadian LTE networks with a SIM bought in the North American country they are visiting. They can also use up to DC HSPA (up to 42 Mbits/sec) on any carrier that supports that standard or HSPA+ at up to 21 Mbits/sec.

The problem is that Australians have consumer protection laws and Apple has broken them. We have different standards on many things eg metric system. It's irrelevant your definition of 4G works in the US or on Mars for that matter.

 

[Chlloret]

The problem is that Australians have consumer protection laws and Apple has broken them. We have different standards on many things eg metric system. It's irrelevant your definition of 4G works in the US or on Mars for that matter.

The best would be to stop the sale of the new iPad all together in the regions that make up there own meaning of 4G and insist that others do the same.

4G is simply used to show the improvement in speed, the same then Australians use it for there LTE (that is also no 4G, they just made it up) or some Americans or here the Spaniards use it for 40Mbit/s or faster conections.

The local consumer groups want to protect the consumer in this case from Apple, because they do not conform with the advertising and marketing of the Australien telecom provider. Why do they not also go against the provider, after all, they also promise 4G without delivering?

Its a big mess but there will always be people that have to complain, never mind if the product actually delivers. The dumbest nominater is being set as the norm, nobody is resposable for anything and there always has to be somebody to blame, never the guy in the mirror of course.

Best solution, stop the sale and any promotions for the new iPad in Australia, Sweden and Norway, the loss (if any) should be very small and then, when the tech is available, bring localised versions for those markets with a hefty surcharge. Then people can access the net with 20Mbit/s instead of 40, but the consumer protection is happy that the holy LTE is being used.

I'm sure these consumer organisations become a lot of happy letters celebrating there victory over the giant Apple, actual clients would have to get there devices over Amazon or other outlets. No big deal and far cheaper for Apple then spending millions in relabeling packaging, change TV ads (they save that money as well) and trying to explain a highly complex technical issue, so complex that even bonified experts sometimes are at a loss, to average users that simply want to use the device.

If Apple looses 100 or even 200 sales would not really be of any importance in the big picture with 60+ Million units forcast for this year alone.

 

[theluggage]

However, if you buy the new iPad because you want a wireless conected device that works as fast as possible in any given part of the world and Apple tells you, that the new iPad can do just that, you are also in luck because that is exactly what it does.

There have been articles about 4G on the BBC. There are FAQs on phone operators sites. Non-techie customers will have heard that 4G is coming soon in the UK. Other EU countries already have 4G. There will be people who can get 4G but not HSPA+. Seeing an iPad labeled "4G" makes people think "Great, I've heard that 4G is coming and this will do 4G if I need it".

On the original Apple UK "new iPad" website there was noting to tell such people that the promised 4G was only "American" 4G unless they happened to know the actual EU 4G LTE frequencies by heart. The only clue was in a *footnote* to the tech specs page which listed the US carriers on which LTE was supported. A lot of that has now been fixed and re-worded.

Even that wouldn't be such a big issue if the 4G feature was itself a bullet point in the tech specs - but it says 4G in Large, Friendly Letters in the model description right next to the "Buy" button.

Also, this is not about calling a waaaahhhmbulance for people with buyer's remorse. Its about trying to stop product advertising descending into the Wild West, caveat emptor mess that some people here seem so keen to defend. I'd quite like to buy a product advertised as "with X" without having to descend into the basement and look in the locked filing cabinet in the disused lavatory with the sign on the door saying "beware of the leopard" just in case there was a bit of small print saying "might not actually come with X in your region". More specifically, hopefully this will stop other vendors and carriers playing fast and loose with the term 4G and causing further confusion when LTE is actually rolled out.

 

[Chlloret]

There have been articles about 4G on the BBC. There are FAQs on phone operators sites. Non-techie customers will have heard that 4G is coming soon in the UK. Other EU countries already have 4G. There will be people who can get 4G but not HSPA+. Seeing an iPad labeled "4G" makes people think "Great, I've heard that 4G is coming and this will do 4G if I need it".

On the original Apple UK "new iPad" website there was noting to tell such people that the promised 4G was only "American" 4G unless they happened to know the actual EU 4G LTE frequencies by heart. The only clue was in a *footnote* to the tech specs page which listed the US carriers on which LTE was supported. A lot of that has now been fixed and re-worded.

Even that wouldn't be such a big issue if the 4G feature was itself a bullet point in the tech specs - but it says 4G in Large, Friendly Letters in the model description right next to the "Buy" button.

Also, this is not about calling a waaaahhhmbulance for people with buyer's remorse. Its about trying to stop product advertising descending into the Wild West, caveat emptor mess that some people here seem so keen to defend. I'd quite like to buy a product advertised as "with X" without having to descend into the basement and look in the locked filing cabinet in the disused lavatory with the sign on the door saying "beware of the leopard" just in case there was a bit of small print saying "might not actually come with X in your region". More specifically, hopefully this will stop other vendors and carriers playing fast and loose with the term 4G and causing further confusion when LTE is actually rolled out.

So people are capable to learn on the website of there provider about 4G (of course, there is no 4G coming in Britain, not for a loooong time) but are NOT capable to read the information on Apples Website before they buy.

Or are you refering to the eventually coming LTE networks? They have about the same to do with 4G then the existing HSPA+ networks. Atm there is no way to build a LTE device for Britain as the frequencies and, more important, the used bands within the frequencies are not known. There are test networks running right now, but they will have to change once the auctions are done and it is anybodys guess when the first real LTE network will be comercially available. The Orange venture has already been delayed, part for financial reasons, part for unknown frequency and licensing issues and the lack of available hardware.

And what the "existing" networks is concerned (exception Sweden, where you actually do get a working LTE connection, however, stationary) look fe in Germany. If you look at the coverage maps for Vodafone or t-mobile (of course not compatible, different frequencies) and then look at the actual in practice runs recieved signals (we did a lot of that testing) you find that its a joke and will stay that way for at least 2 years to come. Maybe more.there are more then 80000 radios to be installed to get 80% coverage in populated aereas, less for rural aereas where the low 700 and 800 Mhz are used (higher reach but less capacity per cell)

T-mobile tries to get around this (not forgetting that every cell tower means protests and organised resistance) by using 1800 Mhz, better reach then vodafones 2600Mhz (not compatible with Swedens 2600Mhz and probably not compatible with BTs 2600 Mhz but nobody knows) and still capable of building penetration, a point where 2600Mhz got massive problems.

Its not going to be easy but one thing is sure, the devices you buy today, no matter what they say on the lable, will not be compatible with any of these. When in 3 or more years the networks are availabe, to the masses with decent coverage and affordable prices, and eventually wire bound networks replace, then there will be matching devices available.

But today, looking at a iPad, I'm surely not looking to get tech that is capable eventually one day in the distand future, to run on networks that are still being certified today.

 

[theluggage]

So people are capable to learn on the website of there provider about 4G (of course, there is no 4G coming in Britain, not for a loooong time) but are NOT capable to read the information on Apples Website before they buy.

Except there has been much talk about 4g LTE on, e.g. the BBC website, and at around the time of the iPad launch it looked like there would be 4G, from T-Orange, within the year. Apple's website at the time was as clear as mud on the subject - apart from one footnote on the tech specs page which, at the time, wasn't repeated on the detailed description of the features page. The site is somewhat clearer now, post-ruckus.

It's all a bit moot now that the world+dog has also read on the BBC about.... 4Gate (as in Antennagate), the TOrange plan is delayed and (irony of irony) Ofcom is talking about freeing up some spectrum to allow LTE on one of the US bands... which might suggest that at least one Ofcom boss was fooled by the adverts and wants to be able to use his iPad on 4G

 

[Chlloret]

Except there has been much talk about 4g LTE on, e.g. the BBC website, and at around the time of the iPad launch it looked like there would be 4G, from T-Orange, within the year. Apple's website at the time was as clear as mud on the subject - apart from one footnote on the tech specs page which, at the time, wasn't repeated on the detailed description of the features page. The site is somewhat clearer now, post-ruckus.

It's all a bit moot now that the world+dog has also read on the BBC about.... 4Gate (as in Antennagate), the TOrange plan is delayed and (irony of irony) Ofcom is talking about freeing up some spectrum to allow LTE on one of the US bands... which might suggest that at least one Ofcom boss was fooled by the adverts and wants to be able to use his iPad on 4G

Except there is no 4G coming. There is LTE in the planing and as you say, at the earliest next year (when, surprise, the matching iPad will be available) but no 4G. As Apple uses the 4G as a means to show speed, so do the Telecom providers. They trying to hammer the "fact" that LTE is 4G into the heads of the punters and no consumer protection is going against that. Why? The proposed LTE in Britain or the LTE in the States got nothing to do with 4G, but they are all allowed to advertise it. Only Apple is being done for simply for using the same phrase.

 

[theluggage]

Except there is no 4G coming.

Congratulations. You know better than the UK Telecoms regulators who think LTE is 4G and HSPA+ isn't and (although its since been delayed) were recently talking about LTE being available this year.

Only Apple is being done for simply for using the same phrase.

Only since they removed the bit on their UK website that made it clear that their definition of 4G was the same as Ofcom's - LTE and not HSPA+.

 

[Chlloret]

Congratulations. You know better than the UK Telecoms regulators who think LTE is 4G and HSPA+ isn't and (although its since been delayed) were recently talking about LTE being available this year.


Only since they removed the bit on their UK website that made it clear that their definition of 4G was the same as Ofcom's - LTE and not HSPA+.

You only confirm what I said. Ofcom is first talking about next generation mobile, later refering (erronious) to LTE as 4G. Even there numbers are compleatly bonkers with the exception that the sprectrum IS better used, however not with the tech being proposed in the UK. Whatever will be offered in the UK by the end of 2013 or 2014 will hardly be 230% faster then existing "3G" tech but, if at all, reach about 50% of todays speeds.
Current "3G" Networks run at up to 42Mbit/s, by the time LTE rolls out en masse speeds of up to 72 Mbit/s will be common. "3G" is in the lab today at 156mbit/s.
Just because the UK networks do not employ this tech yet (atm you peter out at 21Mbit/s) is not meaning that it is not in existence.

Ofcom rightly predicts in the future (rather optimistic for 2020) faster speeds with the arrival of tru 4G, LTE Advanced.

All this link shows me is, that even Ofcom (the "regulaters" they have nothing to do with the actual tech) have no idea what they are saying or doing, nothing new there.

I do not want to be missunderstood, this is not taking position for or against Apple here but looking at the actual situation what 4G, LTE ect is concerned in Europe, after all, we are working with this for the last 15 years.

And do you really believe that in 2020 (earliest) the then 8 year old gadget of today is of any interest to anybody?

 

[theluggage]

later refering (erronious) to LTE as 4G.

Your entire argument hangs on the Humpty-Dumpty syndrome ("words mean precisely what I intend them to mean"). Sorry, but words mean what the majority of people understand them to mean.

Once upon a time 4G meant what you'd like it to mean - but its been corrupted to include "LTE or WiMax", at least in Europe or Australia, and I've fired more than enough references at you to demonstrate this.

Anyway, in this context it is moot anyway because Apple's literature makes it clear that they think LTE is "4G".

I give up. Anything else is a job for Etymology Man.