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Apple Computer Recycling Program
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just some thoughts - although with so many postings here I assume it will get lost in the clutter..
I have been studying computer waste issues for 15 years. I am a chairperson of the IEEE conference on Electronics and the Environment, etc. This is an area I am an expert in - glad to give credentials if interested. Actually the conference is in SF in a few weeks if anyone is interested http://www.iseesummit.org/.
Frankly, its about time Apple did something.
As pointed out above, Dell started it a few years ago. IBM did it at least 5 years ago. Many retailers (Staples, Best Buy, etc.) also have programs like this. So really the big question should be "what took them so long?". Dont get me wrong - I am a huge apple supporter, and every computer I have bought in the last 20 years has been an Apple. I think more than anything Apple has been concerned about making their own program versus being perceived as caving to external threats and action (e.g. there was a group complaining about ipod waste last year due to their upgrade/repair difficulties).
Another relevant point - yes its true that in Europe the companies are required to set up a program like this (and it doesnt just apply to computers!). However many/most companies are subject to this, and few of them have announced anything in the US.
Finally, on the subject of utility of old computers. Noone said you have to trade in your newest computer. You should be looking to recycle the really old computers (e.g. I recycled a Mac IIx 6 months ago). Noone knows how many "obsolete" PCs are out there in closets, attics, and corporate storerooms - but its clearly orders of magnitude more than are sold per year, or recycled per year. This is a big problem, and I wish companies like Apple did more to promote this message. Think about it - these arent antiques - every month you let an old one sit around is a month you cant get a tax deduction, make someone else happy, or put it into productive use. You're condemning it to be recycled.
So act early, and act often.
I have been studying computer waste issues for 15 years. I am a chairperson of the IEEE conference on Electronics and the Environment, etc. This is an area I am an expert in - glad to give credentials if interested. Actually the conference is in SF in a few weeks if anyone is interested http://www.iseesummit.org/.
Frankly, its about time Apple did something.
As pointed out above, Dell started it a few years ago. IBM did it at least 5 years ago. Many retailers (Staples, Best Buy, etc.) also have programs like this. So really the big question should be "what took them so long?". Dont get me wrong - I am a huge apple supporter, and every computer I have bought in the last 20 years has been an Apple. I think more than anything Apple has been concerned about making their own program versus being perceived as caving to external threats and action (e.g. there was a group complaining about ipod waste last year due to their upgrade/repair difficulties).
Another relevant point - yes its true that in Europe the companies are required to set up a program like this (and it doesnt just apply to computers!). However many/most companies are subject to this, and few of them have announced anything in the US.
Finally, on the subject of utility of old computers. Noone said you have to trade in your newest computer. You should be looking to recycle the really old computers (e.g. I recycled a Mac IIx 6 months ago). Noone knows how many "obsolete" PCs are out there in closets, attics, and corporate storerooms - but its clearly orders of magnitude more than are sold per year, or recycled per year. This is a big problem, and I wish companies like Apple did more to promote this message. Think about it - these arent antiques - every month you let an old one sit around is a month you cant get a tax deduction, make someone else happy, or put it into productive use. You're condemning it to be recycled.
So act early, and act often.
I am very sorry you feel this way. Earth does not have an infinite amount of resources. If we can re-use existing materials again - how is that bad?
Recycling programmes also creates jobs, so there is an economical benefit too.
Do you like rubbish being thrown in large land sites, or, toxic fumes being pumped into the atmosphere. Do you think either has any benefit on life? ( The answer is no ). Computers get thrown into the regular garbage and end up in regular landfills, where there are no protections. So, all those toxins can end up in your water supply, and in the food chain etc.
If you don't already, I suggest you start recycling some of your waste... because if everyone did, this planet would be a lot better for it.
Recycling programmes also creates jobs, so there is an economical benefit too.
Do you like rubbish being thrown in large land sites, or, toxic fumes being pumped into the atmosphere. Do you think either has any benefit on life? ( The answer is no ). Computers get thrown into the regular garbage and end up in regular landfills, where there are no protections. So, all those toxins can end up in your water supply, and in the food chain etc.
If you don't already, I suggest you start recycling some of your waste... because if everyone did, this planet would be a lot better for it.
gerardrj said:
MacTruck said:
My mother! You'd be suprised how many people just can't be bothered! Fortunately I was able to Freecycle it. http://www.freecycle.org/
Maybe this will stop the misinformed anti-apple environmental protesters. I am an environmentalist myself, but I think it's stupid to protest against Apple when they are actually better than the average company in this respect.
Stella said:
Sadly it costs money to recycle things, and Apple, like all Corporations, are only interested in one thing. The quarterly figures. To hell with the planet, it can blow up in the next 50 years for all Apple cares, but the next quarter's margins are of paramount importance!
generik said:
So, since you're so environmentally-minded, you don't mind paying reclamation/recycle/salvage fees for disposing of your old equipment now, do you?
Oh, wait, it's only behavior to be expected, if it's someone else's expense...
Have you asked Toyota to take back old cars? Toshiba, old TVs? Trojan, old prophylactics?
artifex said:So, since you're so environmentally-minded, you don't mind paying reclamation/recycle/salvage fees for disposing of your old equipment now, do you?
Oh, wait, it's only behavior to be expected, if it's someone else's expense...
Have you asked Toyota to take back old cars? Toshiba, old TVs? Trojan, old prophylactics?
Whether the companies pay and it cuts into shareholder profits, or governments pay and it takes tax money, or individuals pay a small recycling fee directly, it's cheaper to do it now than to wait until there's no other option. Old cars last a lot longer than computers, and when they get to the end of the line, they're scrapped, too. Toshiba already pays for recycling of old TVs, but they don't take them back directly because they don't sell directly to consumers.
Ultimately, the only way to avoid environmental catastrophy is to take the holistic mantle as espoused by William McDonough & Michael Braungart in Cradle to Cradle: If it cannot be produced to be completely biodegradeable then the product must never leave the recycling phase of its use.
The current throw away mentality and recycling policies will get us nowhere. Its irrelevant how many plastic bags you save or recycle as eventually those plastic bags recycled into park benches become worn or not needed and, guess what... they go to landfill. Unless those bags can fully degrade safely or they can continually - ad infinitum - be reused, there is no point to this argument.
Check out:
http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm
While I look at the efforts of some companies with skepticism I can appreciate what Apple and others are trying to do to minimise harm at least in respect to this ill-informed comment by gerardrj:
Yes. The onus should be on manufacturers to find better ways to create things. Why does the consumer have to bear the burden for environmental degradation?
Also even though the dumps are lined, they are far from leak proof. The chemicals and leachate that comes from the various components and other garbage easily burn and puncture the lining. Read Elizabeth Royte's "Garbage Land." for an excellent revealing look into what really happens in the so called recycling/waste industry. At the least, I applaud Apple for helping to reduce the impact of landfill, mind you, nearly every industry needs to be involved in these sorts of programs otherwise it really is a token gesture. Ultimately, it is still only delaying the inevitable, but if it buys us more time then that is a good thing to have.
We really need all parties to think more deeply about what they are doing, how things are made and what happens in the full lifecycle of a product. Easy? No. Necessary? Absolutely. We can have our lifestyle products and be good to the planet as well - we need thinking outside of the box and a little common sense, which is unfortunately, not so common.
None of this is easy, but taking ideological sides like many people do based on emotional judgement is only going to confuse matters when we really can't afford it.
PS. On this issue, just ignore my sig.
The current throw away mentality and recycling policies will get us nowhere. Its irrelevant how many plastic bags you save or recycle as eventually those plastic bags recycled into park benches become worn or not needed and, guess what... they go to landfill. Unless those bags can fully degrade safely or they can continually - ad infinitum - be reused, there is no point to this argument.
Check out:
http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm
While I look at the efforts of some companies with skepticism I can appreciate what Apple and others are trying to do to minimise harm at least in respect to this ill-informed comment by gerardrj:
Yes. The onus should be on manufacturers to find better ways to create things. Why does the consumer have to bear the burden for environmental degradation?
Also even though the dumps are lined, they are far from leak proof. The chemicals and leachate that comes from the various components and other garbage easily burn and puncture the lining. Read Elizabeth Royte's "Garbage Land." for an excellent revealing look into what really happens in the so called recycling/waste industry. At the least, I applaud Apple for helping to reduce the impact of landfill, mind you, nearly every industry needs to be involved in these sorts of programs otherwise it really is a token gesture. Ultimately, it is still only delaying the inevitable, but if it buys us more time then that is a good thing to have.
We really need all parties to think more deeply about what they are doing, how things are made and what happens in the full lifecycle of a product. Easy? No. Necessary? Absolutely. We can have our lifestyle products and be good to the planet as well - we need thinking outside of the box and a little common sense, which is unfortunately, not so common.
None of this is easy, but taking ideological sides like many people do based on emotional judgement is only going to confuse matters when we really can't afford it.
PS. On this issue, just ignore my sig.
generik said:
I talking about *you* ( the individual ) - you can do a lot to recycle - paper, food containers, plastics etc. ( referring to your "Stupid environmentalists" quote ).
So what if it costs the tax payer money ( as some schemes are run by local government )? I'd rather pay a small contribution to help... than to suffer the consequences.
So what if it costs the company money to recycle its products - its also publicity.. just by having recycling schemes can actually benefit the company by more customers ( the customer sees the company in a good light - and would rather by from this one than others ).
You aren't thinking of the whole picture.
hscottm said:
Amen to that - Apple's had a horrible track record so far.
Read this: http://www.ban.org/ban_news/2006/060410_where_computers_go.html
and this: http://www.ban.org/Library/Editorials/060306_real_cost.html
and this article, in which Jobs responded to complaints by calling them bulls*** : http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5680152.html
- and -
http://www.computertakeback.com/bad_apple/
matticus008 said:
It's too late...
there is a lot more waste in terms of overall weight than the entire human population today, that's what happens when our leaders, elected or not, are not eagle sighted individuals.
Macquariums, too?
Gee, I wonder if they would take back my MacPlus that I turned into an aquarium. I'd empty the water out first, of course...
Gee, I wonder if they would take back my MacPlus that I turned into an aquarium. I'd empty the water out first, of course...
Not just shipped off to overseas dumps
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/21takeback.html
Equipment received by the program in the US is recycled domestically and no hazardous material is shipped overseas.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/21takeback.html
Equipment received by the program in the US is recycled domestically and no hazardous material is shipped overseas.