Apple Confirms: iPad Uses PowerVR SGX Graphics Hardware

[Riemann Zeta]

by the way, iphone 3G has 128mb of ram, 3GS has 256mb. how much ram for the ipad? i hope it's not the same with 3GS. 512mb or 1gb should be plenty..

I would also like to know the answer to this one. I am betting that it has 256MB, same as the 3GS...but I hope that I am wrong and it ends up with 512MB. As for the GPU, I am betting either the SGX540 or SGX543, but we could end up with the same 535 chip that is in the 3GS for the sake of App Store compatibility. Those who think that the SGX535 isn't powerful enough to drive a 1024*768 display, remember that Intel used this same chipset for its Atom Z-series netbook design (they called it the GMA500). On netbooks, the chip never lived up to its potential because the Win 7 driver support was supposedly terrible (essentially rough beta drivers)...but it can still run a 720p 2D display.

As for the CPU, my bet is that the A4 is based upon the Cortex A9, but not the multicore version. Still, the Cortex A9 is impressive: a full out-of-order superscalar CPU with decent floating-point performance and the NEON vector instructions.

 

[diamond.g]

I would also like to know the answer to this one. I am betting that it has 256MB, same as the 3GS...but I hope that I am wrong and it ends up with 512MB. As for the GPU, I am betting either the SGX540 or SGX543, but we could end up with the same 535 chip that is in the 3GS for the sake of App Store compatibility. Those who think that the SGX535 isn't powerful enough to drive a 1024*768 display, remember that Intel used this same chipset for its Atom Z-series netbook design (they called it the GMA500). On netbooks, the chip never lived up to its potential because the Win 7 driver support was supposedly terrible (essentially rough beta drivers)...but it can still run a 720p 2D display.

As for the CPU, my bet is that the A4 is based upon the Cortex A9, but not the multicore version. Still, the Cortex A9 is impressive: a full out-of-order superscalar CPU with decent floating-point performance and the NEON vector instructions.

Yeah, with the GPU RAM and CPU on the same die I kinda hoped they would have a separate bus for the GPU to RAM. If they are using the SGX535 it appears that they are capped at about 4.2GB/s for bandwidth. Which is good for a mobile device, but makes you take a hit in texturing (even with all the whizbang features modern GPUs use crazy amounts of bandwidth). Which is made even worse when you have to share that bandwidth with the CPU, and the storage.

 

[Wolfpup]

It's a good thing. Something that very few other companies will be able to compete with.

Very few companies? ANYONE can compete with this. Anyone can use the same graphics hardware, and there's plenty of other graphics hardware out there too. There's literally nothing at all special about this.

 

[psonice]

I think it's very likely to have more than 256mb. Otherwise, it'll effectively have less than the 3GS! Considering that all the extra UI textures needed for the much bigger interfaces will be held in ram, an iPad version of an iPhone app will use a lot more memory so there needs to be more available.

 

[cmaier]

Anyone wondered what A4 means? What happened to A1, 2 and 3?

My guess: It's Apple 4-core. Quad core for the ipad, dual core (A2) for the next iphone. I suspect that because it's likely using the cortex A9 CPU, which is designed to come in either dual or quad core configurations. Dual for the iphone is likely, so quad for the ipad makes some sense.

It means Architecture 4. The PA Semi team started with alpha, then strongarm, then PowerPC and now back to ARM.

I have spoken.

 

[coleridge78]

News Flash: Bright Side of the News are lying, sleazy shills with no integrity.

Meet the New Media, same as the Old Media.

 

[Wolfpup]

It means Architecture 4. The PA Semi team started with alpha, then strongarm, then PowerPC and now back to ARM.

I have spoken.

I figure it's just "Apple 4" or the like (if it actually officially had a name). We might see an "Apple 3" used in the 4th gen iPod touch or whatever.

 

[darkblu]

It means Architecture 4. The PA Semi team started with alpha, then strongarm, then PowerPC and now back to ARM.

while it likely does mean something in the line of 'architecture #4', i sincerely doubt it has anything to do with PAsemi's history. it's way more likely that it's the fourth handheld architecture in apple's lineup. after all we've had:

* iphone/ipod touch 1st gen (different part-number SoCs, but one can assume a very close relation)
* iphone 3G/ipod touch 2nd gen
* iphone 3GS/ipod touch 3rd gen

and now comes A4. make your own conclusion.

 

[psonice]

while it likely does mean something in the line of 'architecture #4', i sincerely doubt it has anything to do with PAsemi's history. it's way more likely that it's the fourth handheld architecture in apple's lineup. after all we've had:

* iphone/ipod touch 1st gen (different part-number SoCs, but one can assume a very close relation)
* iphone 3G/ipod touch 2nd gen
* iphone 3GS/ipod touch 3rd gen

and now comes A4. make your own conclusion.

That almost makes sense, except that the iphone/iphone 3g and touch/touch 2g share the same architecture. That makes the next one A3, not A4...

 

[darkblu]

That almost makes sense, except that the iphone/iphone 3g and touch/touch 2g share the same architecture. That makes the next one A3, not A4...

while i agree that it was the same architecture used across those, the performance characteristics of the SoCs were sufficiently different, at least to a degree to introduce a 1G/2G diversification in performance-sensitive software. *shrug*

 

[lilo777]

It means Architecture 4. The PA Semi team started with alpha, then strongarm, then PowerPC and now back to ARM.

I have spoken.

Too bad this team is not with Apple anymore: "Some of the chip engineers Apple gained in its purchase of PA Semi appear to have already left the company. According to partial records on the job networking site LinkedIn, at least half a dozen former PA Semi engineers have left Apple and turned up at a start-up called Agnilux, based in San Jose. The company was co-founded by one of PA’s leading system architects, Mark Hayter.

Neither Mr. Hayter nor other onetime PA workers who left Apple for Agnilux were willing to discuss either company’s plans. According to two people with knowledge of the two companies, who were unwilling to be named because the matter is delicate, some PA engineers left Apple a few months after the acquisition because they were given grants of Apple stock at an unattractive price."

Link

Apple granted stock options at unattractive price... But why?

 

[cmaier]

Too bad this team is not with Apple anymore: "Some of the chip engineers Apple gained in its purchase of PA Semi appear to have already left the company. According to partial records on the job networking site LinkedIn, at least half a dozen former PA Semi engineers have left Apple and turned up at a start-up called Agnilux, based in San Jose. The company was co-founded by one of PA’s leading system architects, Mark Hayter.

Neither Mr. Hayter nor other onetime PA workers who left Apple for Agnilux were willing to discuss either company’s plans. According to two people with knowledge of the two companies, who were unwilling to be named because the matter is delicate, some PA engineers left Apple a few months after the acquisition because they were given grants of Apple stock at an unattractive price."

Link

Apple granted stock options at unattractive price... But why?

Dude - it's only "half a dozen" people. PA had at least 40. Further, some folks who used to work with Dobberpuhl at DEC but who were not at PA Semi are now working with those guys at Apple, so in the end the team is probably even stronger than it was.

BTW - apple is notoriously cheap. Engineers in my discipline are hesitant to go there unless we think we will receive some other benefit other than $$ (satisfaction, extra-flexible hours, whatever).

 

[Jaro65]

but given the hardware size of iPad, cant you put more powerful chip than iPhone's. something like laptop style

A laptop style graphics chip = laptop style battery life. It is not worth it, when the full power of such a GPU would be really only used for games. Plus, the existing GPU seems pretty powerful already, and will only become more so in is future iterations.

 

[firewood]

It means Architecture 4. The PA Semi team started with alpha, then strongarm, then PowerPC and now back to ARM.

You left out the multi-core MIPS at SiByte (now Broadcom), so by your naming convention the A4 would have been their PPC. (That means the PA Semi project at Apple is actually going to be the A5, so Apple's preceding chip would logically be called the A4.

 

[Wolfpup]

while it likely does mean something in the line of 'architecture #4', i sincerely doubt it has anything to do with PAsemi's history. it's way more likely that it's the fourth handheld architecture in apple's lineup. after all we've had:

* iphone/ipod touch 1st gen (different part-number SoCs, but one can assume a very close relation)
* iphone 3G/ipod touch 2nd gen
* iphone 3GS/ipod touch 3rd gen

and now comes A4. make your own conclusion.

Personally I doubt that too. I think it's just 'A4' to leave themselves a few notches to release a lower end CPU for the next ipod and iphone, which will probably show up sporting A2 or A3s.

I'm still baffled as to why Apple or anyone is making a big deal over this chip when it's nothing more than them slapping together other companies' tech and then having someone else manufacturer it. Other than picking out how it's slapped together, it's no different from what they were doing.

I mean I originally assumed that they had designed their own core, since otherwise...they didn't really do much of anything. But no, it's a Cortex A9...which, I mean that's excellent for mobile devices, but Apple's just one of 90 bajillion other companies that have slapped it together with other parts.

 

[gto55]

PA SEMI *******-ed apple ?

March 13, 2010 9:36 AM PST
Apple loses key chip executive


Dan Dobberpuhl, the PA Semi founder and CEO who came to Apple with the acquisition of his company, has apparently jumped ship to work at a chip-related start-up.

Apple acquired PA Semi in April of 2008 for $278 million. At the time, Apple CEO Steve Jobs said the company was purchased to design system-on-chips for iPhones and iPods. Dobberpuhl was the leader of the team Apple hired.

Apple did not respond to inquiries about whether Dobberpuhl was still at Apple. Several sources said Dobberpuhl's departure was not recent and may have happened as long ago as last fall or possibly before that. Sources said they believe Dobberpuhl has joined Amarjit Gill, a former PA Semi principal, at Silicon Valley start-up Agnilux.

Dobberpuhl isn't alone. Other key PA Semi team members have left Apple, including one of PA Semi's leading members, Mark Hayter.

Linley Gwennap, president and principal analyst of The Linley Group, said Dobberpuhl was the leading light at PA Semi.

"He was the CEO at PA Semi and leader of the team, and one of the guys that was driving the whole thing," Gwennap said. But "those guys are start-up kind of people, and within the structure of Apple, they may [have been] chafing."
Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced its A4 chip along with the iPad.

Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced its A4 chip along with the iPad.
(Credit: Credit: James Martin/CNET)

It is not clear if the PA Semi team hired by Apple contributed to the design of the iPad's A4 chip, which Apple describes as a "custom-designed, high-performance, low-power system-on-a-chip."

Ashok Kumar, an analyst Northeast Securities, believes, like other analysts, that the central processing unit, or CPU, inside the iPad's A4 chip is based on a design from United Kingdom-based ARM, which licenses intellectual property to a number of large chip suppliers, including Qualcomm, Texas Instruments, and Nvidia.

But while some chip talent is leaving Apple, others are joining. Last year, Apple picked up Bob Drebin, former chief technology officer of the Graphics Products Group at chipmaker Advanced Micro Devices, who is now listed as a senior director at Apple.



http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10465618-64.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0

 

[diamond.g]

March 13, 2010 9:36 AM PST
Apple loses key chip executive


Dan Dobberpuhl, the PA Semi founder and CEO who came to Apple with the acquisition of his company, has apparently jumped ship to work at a chip-related start-up.

Apple acquired PA Semi in April of 2008 for $278 million. At the time, Apple CEO Steve Jobs said the company was purchased to design system-on-chips for iPhones and iPods. Dobberpuhl was the leader of the team Apple hired.

Apple did not respond to inquiries about whether Dobberpuhl was still at Apple. Several sources said Dobberpuhl's departure was not recent and may have happened as long ago as last fall or possibly before that. Sources said they believe Dobberpuhl has joined Amarjit Gill, a former PA Semi principal, at Silicon Valley start-up Agnilux.

Dobberpuhl isn't alone. Other key PA Semi team members have left Apple, including one of PA Semi's leading members, Mark Hayter.

Linley Gwennap, president and principal analyst of The Linley Group, said Dobberpuhl was the leading light at PA Semi.

"He was the CEO at PA Semi and leader of the team, and one of the guys that was driving the whole thing," Gwennap said. But "those guys are start-up kind of people, and within the structure of Apple, they may [have been] chafing."
Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced its A4 chip along with the iPad.

Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced its A4 chip along with the iPad.
(Credit: Credit: James Martin/CNET)

It is not clear if the PA Semi team hired by Apple contributed to the design of the iPad's A4 chip, which Apple describes as a "custom-designed, high-performance, low-power system-on-a-chip."

Ashok Kumar, an analyst Northeast Securities, believes, like other analysts, that the central processing unit, or CPU, inside the iPad's A4 chip is based on a design from United Kingdom-based ARM, which licenses intellectual property to a number of large chip suppliers, including Qualcomm, Texas Instruments, and Nvidia.

But while some chip talent is leaving Apple, others are joining. Last year, Apple picked up Bob Drebin, former chief technology officer of the Graphics Products Group at chipmaker Advanced Micro Devices, who is now listed as a senior director at Apple.



http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10465618-64.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0

Why would you think that was the case? Maybe the people that started PA Semi didn't want to be pulled back into a large company. Just because a few people have left doesn't mean there are no replacements.

 

[Wolfpup]

He or she is quoting a story...

 

[diamond.g]

He or she is quoting a story...

Right, I was just asking if they thought that Apple was screwed by PA Semi just because some people quit after (or maybe even before) the company was acquired.

 

[kdarling]

It's a good thing. Something that very few other companies will be able to compete with.

I believe that the iPhone 3GS, Palm Pre and Motorola Droid all have PowerVR SGX GPUs.