Apple Considering Discontinuing More Server-Focused Products?

[rdowns]

If really all you know is how to "admin" OSX Server, you're not an administrator. In the industry we call guys like you that need pre-written procedures for particular system Operators. Any Unix admin can work with OSX Server without any issue, along with tons of other systems.

Do you ever say anything nice?

 

[fluffels]

If really all you know is how to "admin" OSX Server, you're not an administrator. In the industry we call guys like you that need pre-written procedures for particular system Operators. Any Unix admin can work with OSX Server without any issue, along with tons of other systems.

What would you call yourself then? A rooter? A rooster - or synonym of?

OS X Server admin isn't too difficult to get in to and 'get your toes wet', but its also great for further learning. I've known quite a few to make a very successful leap to senior linux admin positions after starting out on the Mac.

...And while that's certainly an option, some people like the Mac and decide to stay and SysAdmin that platform - often with many linux servers under their control too. Linux servers which are handled very effectively by said Mac SysAdmin.

🙂

 

[GoCubsGo]

If really all you know is how to "admin" OSX Server, you're not an administrator. In the industry we call guys like you that need pre-written procedures for particular system Operators. Any Unix admin can work with OSX Server without any issue, along with tons of other systems.

Who is this "we" you speak ok? 🙄

 

[fluffels]

Who is this "we" you speak ok? 🙄

The royal one?

 

[MattInOz]

uh ? Linux nerds ? Why not hire a competant systems administrator instead ? Why not buy your linux solution from a qualified vendor like redhat, novell or canonical, with full technical support ?

I think the answer you should give your bosses is "you told me it would be half the price, but since i have no idea how linux works these days, i bought the wrong thing and hired the wrong guy".

Are you claiming the secretary can manage your os x server infrastructure ? That's just plain ludicrous. Concepts of network security and management are not obsolete because a vendor built a gui tool to manage the "box".

Yes (Linux) nerds, guys who tell they know all the answers (about linux)but don't have the social skills to relay that information or to give an impression of competence.

Hey I had no hand in the buying just in the FUBAR recovery work. So I fully agree with you. a)They should have gone to a systems provider with a proven record and b)As fast as I could try an understand the system, my knowledge of Linux is still limited but i did learn enough to know a) was so true that it wasn't funny.

Small offices (40-50ppl) if they can afford to have someone creditable on Contract to come in once month or on call, then to make best use of that time you need some people with a decent understand of how it should work, who handle the day to day stuff (like backup tapes) and keep an eye out for stuff that doesn't seem quite right. To be addressed on the regular visits. I never suggested the receptionist, but yes they can play an important part of the chain.

This is the how stuff works in the smaller end of business market. Stuff is left to the Guy who "seems to understand that stuff" and what ever help he can rally.

 

[Abacab]

Mini config idea

I am one of those passionate SAVE THE XSERVE PEOPLE and have an idea if any engineer's are listening:
They already make a rack mount for the mini. So how about making a sort of dock (similar to the laptop docking stations) that will provide redundant power,
LOM, Fiber connectivity, or built in failover. ?
It can be done sort of now but the challenges are using mass storage devices like fiber, (To my knowledge you can't hook a mini to a Vrack Raid)
Or is Firewire sufficient? I think there is a market here unless Apple has something lurking at Cupertino.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yes (Linux) nerds, guys who tell they know all the answers (about linux)but don't have the social skills to relay that information or to give an impression of competence.

This doesn't jive with the Linux systems administrators I work with (and since I'm on the Linux team, I won't qualify myself, no matter what you think of my attitude here, it has nothing to do with how I work professionally) nor worked with in the past. One bad hire doesn't make all of the Linux people bad.

Small offices (40-50ppl) if they can afford to have someone creditable on Contract to come in once month or on call, then to make best use of that time you need some people with a decent understand of how it should work, who handle the day to day stuff (like backup tapes) and keep an eye out for stuff that doesn't seem quite right. To be addressed on the regular visits. I never suggested the receptionist, but yes they can play an important part of the chain.

This is the how stuff works in the smaller end of business market. Stuff is left to the Guy who "seems to understand that stuff" and what ever help he can rally.

40-50 ppl offices is big compared to what I supported back in my small/medium office business days. We gave them access to 7-6 phone support with on-call techs to come to the office in case of problems, full monitoring of their server infrastructure through a Cisco VPN/Nagios infrastructure (this is one part I hand a big hand in implementing) and Linux hosting of all their e-mail/web services. We had them all on AD domains and most of their normal office applications were served through Thin clients.

The only thing the secretary needed to know was to change the tape really and even if she forgot once or twice, it wasn't a biggy, the tape was big enough for 2 or 3 incrementals.

Who is this "we" you speak ok? 🙄

Me and my collegues when we talk about our NOC guys. Operators. "I know Solaris, look, I can read this thing Knight wrote and type out the commands and it fixes the issue!". *sigh*.

 

[yellow]

If really all you know is how to "admin" OSX Server, you're not an administrator. In the industry we call guys like you that need pre-written procedures for particular system Operators. Any Unix admin can work with OSX Server without any issue, along with tons of other systems.

Nice job leaping to conclusions about my vocation and skill sets.

...And while that's certainly an option, some people like the Mac and decide to stay and SysAdmin that platform

I think this about sums up my response. However, because I chose this as my profession, I must be a moron. 🙄

 

[KnightWRX]

Nice job leaping to conclusions about my vocation and skill sets.

Next time, do a better job presenting your vocation and skill sets than just :

As an OS X Server admin, I thank you for ******** on my skills and knowledge.

From your comment, I have no choice but to assume you are exactly the type of person I was describing, because I wasn't ********* on any skills and knowledge other than those of people who knew nothing but "OS X Server".

Tell me, in that context, how I was supposed to come to any other conclusion ? 🙄

I think this about sums up my response. However, because I chose this as my profession, I must be a moron. 🙄

No, you'd be a moron if all you knew how to do was admin and troubleshoot OS X server. In do big-iron Unix, that's what I chose as my profession. However, throw me into Linux on x86 boxes and I have no problems. Throw me into AIX, Solaris even though for the few last years I've been doing HP-UX and I have no problems adapting either.

That's what I meant. If you're an OS X Server admin, that's fine. If all you know is how to admin OS X Server however, you're an operator, not an administrator and that I have issues with if you try to proclaim yourself as a systems administrator.

 

[yellow]

Next time, do a better job presenting your vocation and skill sets than just :

From your comment, I have no choice but to assume you are exactly the type of person I was describing, because I wasn't ********* on any skills and knowledge other than those of people who knew nothing but "OS X Server".

Sorry, I wasn't aware this was a job interview. Forgive me for getting defensive when you paint an excessively broad picture that "If someone was a OS X Server admin and only that, that guy was already pretty much incompetent."

Tell me, in that context, how I was supposed to come to any other conclusion ? 🙄

I think you already reached your conclusion long before I commented.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Sorry, I wasn't aware this was a job interview. Forgive me for getting defensive when you paint an excessively broad picture that "If someone was a OS X Server admin and only that, that guy was already pretty much incompetent."



I think you already reached your conclusion long before I commented.

Nice job leaping to conclusions about my vocation and skill sets.




I think this about sums up my response. However, because I chose this as my profession, I must be a moron. 🙄

Really, don't mind Knight. He is a knowledgeable fellow about all of this stuff and while I'm sure he's probably a delightful fellow in real life, his larger-than-yours e-cock tends to jump to conclusions on these forums when it seems even remotely likely that you don't know as much as he does.

I am one of those passionate SAVE THE XSERVE PEOPLE and have an idea if any engineer's are listening:
They already make a rack mount for the mini. So how about making a sort of dock (similar to the laptop docking stations) that will provide redundant power,
LOM, Fiber connectivity, or built in failover. ?
It can be done sort of now but the challenges are using mass storage devices like fiber, (To my knowledge you can't hook a mini to a Vrack Raid)
Or is Firewire sufficient? I think there is a market here unless Apple has something lurking at Cupertino.

Rack-mounting the mini with that stuff, or simply making a smaller more power-efficient server with some of the features that we'll all miss in the Xserve isn't all that bad of an idea. Or even building some of that into the Mac Pro wouldn't be a terrible idea either. Again, the Mac mini is clearly a small-scale server, but it'll function as a Server. Hell, my Early 2006 iMac could be turned into a Server. I'm not gonna do that, but it's completely doable. As for whether or not that'd fit in a higher scale rack-mount cluster, DEFINITELY NOT.

 

[calaverasgrande]

are people happy to see you arrive, or happy when you leave?

I sure wish there was a "hide" button so I could only read the posts that relate to the topic at hand and not the posts which are just name calling and knowledge pissing contests. Why is it that in some corners of IT people cant be happy unless they are belittling someone elses knowledge?
I know when I was young scrub in the web development world I got plenty of good pointers and ZERO attitude. Ditto for when I was cutting my teeth on Cisco 2500 series routers or getting my feet wet with Server 2003.
A wise man draws satisfaction from sharing his knowledge. A smart aleck draws satisfaction from belittling people who aren't as knowledgeable as them.

 

[Abacab]

Mini Rack Idea

A Mac Pro can have a Fiber card and all the Bells & Whistles the Xserve has (with the exception of dual power supplies)
My Idea for a rack mounted mini cluster is so it would fit into the rack.
I guess i should be happy and fortunate I have three Xserves and will take extra care of them.
We will see what the future holds.

 

[BrotherBeagle]

Run VMs of Mac OS X Server... on what hardware ? 🙄

Apple already has a deal with VMware to enable virtualization of OS X Server. We can already run OS X server in a VM. However, that doesn't change the fact that it needs to run on top of Apple branded hardware (ie, the Xserve).

There is no more server grade Apple branded hardware.

As for the poster you're replying to, his comment made no sense. If someone was a OS X Server admin and only that, that guy was already pretty much incompetent. Good systems administrators know the basics of how a system works and can adapt easily to any system out there. Unix is Unix, hardware is hardware. It all works the same, give or take a few implementation details. If you have the basics down, the rest you can pick up as you go.

Same for programming. If you're a programmer, it doesn't matter what the "language du jour" is. You know conditional statements, you know looping, you know variable typing, you know pointers, you know objects. The syntax you can pick up.

Actually, my comment made plenty of sense had you bothered to consider it. Especially as you've made the exact point I've offered many times.

Let me break it down again...

1. Apple does not currently allow for virtualization on vanilla hardware. Until they do, this is a moot point. Even if they relax their licensing, I have very little by way of trust for OS X Server in the server room anymore.

2. Apple's violation of enterprise trust by killing off their only enterprise level hardware without a real migration path in place makes justifying sticking with OS X Server professional suicide.

3. Migrate your services to other platforms.

a.Netboot and SUS can be recreated on other platforms.

I've got netbooting working just fine on OpenBSD. I haven't figured out how to free the initial handshake from SUS to Apple from OS X Server yet, but placing the catalog on OpenBSD also works just fine. As I have some time, I'll work on that as well.

b. If you're in a mixed (Windows/Mac) environment and rely on Active Directory for anything at all, extend AD's schema to cover your Macs. If not, migrate to vanilla OpenLDAP.

Regardless, unless you're in a small shop (>100 Macs), basing your network load on hopes that Apple isn't going to pull any more plugs is shortsighted.

Finally, don't question my ability without asking about my network size, roadmap or past experience. And don't bother calling me a Mac admin, because I'm not -- I just happened to have wound up in a place where I have nearly fifteen hundred Apple branded products that have landed on my plate -- and a lot of users that rely on those without downtime -- and a lack of inherited documentation or existing policy.

Suggesting that I can't exist without OS X Server equates to me suggesting that your favourite color is orange. Neither of us have any indication whether that is the case.