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Apple and Masimo are back in a California court this week for a bench trial that will see Masimo arguing that Apple illegally poached its employees and stole trade secrets when developing the Apple Watch.

masimo-watch-freedom.jpg

Masimo first filed the trade secret lawsuit against Apple in 2020, and there was a jury trial in April 2023. During that trial, the court threw out more than half of Masimo's trade secret claims, but the judge ultimately declared a mistrial because the jury was not able to come to a final decision. Six of seven jurors sided with Apple, while one Masimo holdout would not change her opinion.

Apple and Masimo were slated to retry the case with another jury, but Masimo abandoned all claims asking for monetary compensation in order to get a bench trial instead. Masimo originally requested $1.85 billion in damages, along with reasonable royalties, lost profits, and a penalty for willful trade secret appropriation.

With the bench trial, Masimo is no longer claiming any monetary damages, but it wants an injunction against the Apple Watch. The bench trial will first determine if there were any trade secret violations, and then the court will consider Masimo's argument for an injunction. It is unclear what injunctive relief Masimo could ask for in this situation, especially as many of the claims in this case have now been thrown out.

During the case, Masimo accused Apple of infringing on 17 patents. After an ITC review, 15 of the 17 patents were invalidated, with two remaining. The patent portion of the trade secret case is on hold.

Note that the Masimo trade secret lawsuit against Apple is separate from both an ITC injunction preventing the sale of Apple Watch models with a blood oxygen sensor and a patent infringement case that Apple filed against Masimo.

Apple is appealing the ITC's Apple Watch injunction, but it has been able to continue selling the Apple Watch by disabling the blood oxygen sensor that allegedly infringes on Masimo's technology. To get the sales ban in the first place, Masimo had to prove that it was using the patents that Apple was infringing, so Masimo rushed to create its own smart watch in 2022, deliberately copying several of Apple's patents.

Masimo's W1 Freedom smart watch was the subject of the patent lawsuit that Apple filed against Masimo, and just last week, a jury decided that Masimo's devices had infringed on Apple Watch patents. Apple says that it only asked for $250 in damages, as the goal of the lawsuit wasn't profit, it was to get Masimo to stop copying the design of the Apple Watch.

The ITC order is the most damaging to Apple because Apple is prevented from selling Apple Watch models with blood oxygen sensing in the United States. Apple believes the appeals court will overturn the ITC's ruling, and the company said this week that it is exploring all possible methods to get blood oxygen sensing back in U.S. Apple Watch models.

Over the last five years, Masimo has been fighting three separate cases with Apple. Masimo did win the ITC ban of the blood oxygen sensing feature, but it ultimately had no material impact on Apple's business because Apple was able to simply disable the feature and continue selling the device. So far, Masimo has not gained much in its legal battle with Apple, and it isn't looking like the trade secret case will go in Masimo's favor.

Article Link: Apple Continues Working to Get Blood Oxygen Sensing Back in U.S. Apple Watches as Next Masimo Trial Begins
 
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this is a mess and it seems no party is giving an inch. Too bad that the customer is being punished here and not getting this feature, but then again, it doesn't seem to impact sales much.
Maybe the fact that the previous Masimo CEO was kicked out a couple months ago will make them more open for reasonable licensing fees
 
this is a mess and it seems no party is giving an inch.
Why do people expect Masimo to give an inch when they are the ones who developed the technology?

Maybe the fact that the previous Masimo CEO was kicked out a couple months ago will make them more open for reasonable licensing fees
Joe Kiani wasn't "kicked out." He resigned as CEO.


Masimo said on Wednesday founder Joe Kiani has decided to step down as the medical device maker's CEO, days after shareholders voted to remove him from the company's board following a bitter proxy battle with activist hedge fund Politan Capital Management.


I kind of got the feeling that ex-CEO Joe Kiani was not willing to license the technology to Apple.
Don't know where you're getting this "feeling" from but the facts say otherwise.


Masimo CEO Joe Kiani told CNBC on Monday that Apple had not reached out to settle.

“I don’t care that much about the Apple leadership, given about what I know about how they run the company,” Kiani said. “I still extended the olive branch and offered to work with them for the betterment of people and our shareholders, and not even a call.”



As a matter of fact, it's Apple who has no desire to license their patents. Tim Cook would rather fight it out in court and pay the probably hundreds of millions in lawyer fees than license Masimo's patents.


Apple CEO Tim Cook implies there isn't any intention to license Masimo's blood oxygen detection to end the Apple Watch import ban.

Apple CEO Tim Cook told CNBC in a statement shared on live television that Apple is focused on appeals, implying the company has no intention to license Masimo's patents. While it seemed likely that was the case, the company hadn't said as much publicly until now.

"We're focused on appeal," Cook's statement said. "There's lots of reasons to buy the watch even without the blood oxygen sensor."



yea, and some suggested he was asking insane licensing fees - hence my comment that now that he's out
Their patents, their right to ask whatever they want.

Got a source to back up this claim they were "asking insane licensing fees?"
 
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Apple isn't entering a licensing deal because they think they can eventually work around it, or whittle Massimo down to a point where it will be cheap to Apple.
 
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Do all the other wearables with similar pulse oximeters somehow not violate Masimo’s patents? Or is this an example of Masimo simply going after the biggest fish? Either way, it’s wild that Apple is stuck shipping a hobbled wearable while all its competitors continue to measure blood oxygen with abandon.
 
So do current US Apple Watch Series 10 devices have the oxygen sensor and it's just software disabled at the moment? Could they enable it via a software update?

It's completely unknown at this point. The injunction happened late 2023. Watch 10 launched nine months later - it's not clear if the hardware remains in U.S. models.
 
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Reactions: jib2
Do all the other wearables with similar pulse oximeters somehow not violate Masimo’s patents? Or is this an example of Masimo simply going after the biggest fish? Either way, it’s wild that Apple is stuck shipping a hobbled wearable while all its competitors continue to measure blood oxygen with abandon.

Fitbit (Google), Garmin, Philips, and countless others license from Masimo. It's clear Masimo is willing to license their tech. When people suggest Masimo or the CEO wasn't willing to license, it's a random-ass guess with nothing backing it.
 
Apple isn't entering a licensing deal because they think they can eventually work around it, or whittle Massimo down to a point where it will be cheap to Apple.

Pretty much this. Apple tried this same strategy on Qualcomm - basically going completely silent and unleashing their lawyers to fight a patent war.

Apple can wait until the patents expire in 2028 to add the SpO2 feature back to U.S. models. But iPhone 12 and 5G couldn't wait, so Apple settled with Qualcomm.
 
Why do people expect Masimo to give an inch when they are the ones who developed the technology?


Don't know where you're getting this "feeling" from but the facts say otherwise.


Masimo CEO Joe Kiani told CNBC on Monday that Apple had not reached out to settle.

“I don’t care that much about the Apple leadership, given about what I know about how they run the company,” Kiani said. “I still extended the olive branch and offered to work with them for the betterment of people and our shareholders, and not even a call.”




Their patents, their right to ask whatever they want.

Got a source to back up this claim they were "asking insane licensing fees?"
just because that guy made some statements in public doesn't equate to those statements citing facts ...

apparently Masimo licensed to the likes of Garmin and/or google yet seemingly declined to license to Apple, hmmm.

and I said ".. some suggested he was asking insane licensing fees ..." it was mentioned in one of the 25 MR articles about this, I did not make a "claim"

For Masimo, it's lost revenue, let's just say they'd get $1 per watch sold, since S6 probably ~ 150-200M watches had this feature --> $150M - $200M lost revenue, hmm, why wouldn't they give an inch?
 
Apple isn't entering a licensing deal because they think they can eventually work around it, or whittle Massimo down to a point where it will be cheap to Apple.
Which is what will happen. These costs are nothing to Apple. They can easily out last Masimo.
 
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Reactions: _Mitchan1999
just because that guy made some statements in public doesn't equate to those statements citing facts ...

apparently Masimo licensed to the likes of Garmin and/or google yet seemingly declined to license to Apple, hmmm.

and I said ".. some suggested he was asking insane licensing fees ..." it was mentioned in one of the 25 MR articles about this, I did not make a "claim"

For Masimo, it's lost revenue, let's just say they'd get $1 per watch sold, since S6 probably ~ 150-200M watches had this feature --> $150M - $200M lost revenue, hmm, why wouldn't they give an inch?

There is no evidence to suggest Masimo declined to license to Apple. Not sure why people keep pushing that silly idea.

MR articles never wrote anything about insane licensing fees.
 
Which is what will happen. These costs are nothing to Apple. They can easily out last Masimo.

Most people in the U.S. will buy from Canada if they want the feature. It's similar to the SIM card issue. Countless Americans traveling north to Vancouver and Toronto buying iPhones. Apple is far less willing to deal due to that fact.
 
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just because that guy made some statements in public doesn't equate to those statements citing facts ...

apparently Masimo licensed to the likes of Garmin and/or google yet seemingly declined to license to Apple, hmmm.
Please provide a source to back up that claim Masimo declined to license to Apple when Tim Cook is the one who actually said Apple does not want to license them and would rather fight it out in court.


Apple CEO Tim Cook implies there isn't any intention to license Masimo's blood oxygen detection to end the Apple Watch import ban.

Apple CEO Tim Cook told CNBC in a statement shared on live television that Apple is focused on appeals, implying the company has no intention to license Masimo's patents. While it seemed likely that was the case, the company hadn't said as much publicly until now.

"We're focused on appeal," Cook's statement said. "There's lots of reasons to buy the watch even without the blood oxygen sensor."



^^ That means Apple has the opportunity to license them, but is choosing not to.
 
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