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Apple could be facing a widespread investigation into the App Store in India, and more specifically, the company's in-app purchasing system, which grants it a 15% to 30% commission for all purchases made, reports Reuters.

app-store-blue-banner.jpg

The Competition Commission of India (CCI), which oversees cases of possible anti-competitive and antitrust behavior, is reviewing an antitrust challenge case against Apple presented by a non-profit Indian group. The group claims, in their case, that Apple's standard 30% commission for in-app purchases "hurts competition" since it raises costs for both the developer and the customer.
"The existence of the 30% commission means that some app developers will never make it to the market ... This could also result in consumer harm," said the filing, which has been seen by Reuters.
Apple has already faced countless similar cases worldwide, including in the European Union and by developer groups in the United States. In its current stage, the case is not prompting a more exhaustive investigation by the Indian government. Instead, Reuters says that it will be reviewed by the CCI in the coming weeks, possibly leading to a probe.

The group behind the case is ultimately asking for Apple to allow third-party payment methods into its app, allowing developers to bypass its 15% to 30% commission. The new case was reported just hours after Apple announced that, beginning sometime next year, it will allow "reader" apps to link users to external websites for purchases.

The new policy change is the second of just the past few weeks. Last week, Apple conceded to allow developers to email users about payment methods available outside of their apps. However, the new changes stop short of not requiring developers to use the company's proprietary in-app purchasing system and instead allows them to just add a clearly distinguished link to an external website for payment.

Article Link: Apple Could Face Investigation in India Over App Store In-App Purchase System
 
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laptech

macrumors 6502a
Apr 26, 2013
988
1,370
Earth
Please be extremely clear in your reporting because in a very similar article on the matter you quoted Apple as saying that they will allow app developers to provide a in-app link to the developers website for 'account management' purposes only. 'account management' does not mean 'allow link to external website for payment'. No where has Apple said they will allow an app developer to provide an in-app link for external payments.

Please provide the evidence where Apple has expressly said they will allow app developers to provide in-app links to external websites for payments to take place. If you cannot find it please remove any reference to allowing links to external websites for payment because it's going beyond journalist license to write something that is not true.
 

twintin

macrumors 6502a
Aug 10, 2012
672
192
Sweden
Well, I guess in most cases 'account management' implies registering of payment method along with other options.
 

icerabbit

macrumors regular
Jul 2, 2006
203
211
Please be extremely clear in your reporting because in a very similar article on the matter you quoted Apple as saying that they will allow app developers to provide a in-app link to the developers website for 'account management' purposes only. 'account management' does not mean 'allow link to external website for payment'. No where has Apple said they will allow an app developer to provide an in-app link for external payments.

Please provide the evidence where Apple has expressly said they will allow app developers to provide in-app links to external websites for payments to take place. If you cannot find it please remove any reference to allowing links to external websites for payment because it's going beyond journalist license to write something that is not true.

Did you see

 
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cardfan

macrumors 68040
Mar 23, 2012
3,303
4,266
Please be extremely clear in your reporting because in a very similar article on the matter you quoted Apple as saying that they will allow app developers to provide a in-app link to the developers website for 'account management' purposes only. 'account management' does not mean 'allow link to external website for payment'. No where has Apple said they will allow an app developer to provide an in-app link for external payments.

Please provide the evidence where Apple has expressly said they will allow app developers to provide in-app links to external websites for payments to take place. If you cannot find it please remove any reference to allowing links to external websites for payment because it's going beyond journalist license to write something that is not true.
From apple.com: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/japan-fair-trade-commission-closes-app-store-investigation/. Apple will also help developers of reader apps protect users when they link them to an external website to make purchases.

Looks clear enough to me.
 

Wildkraut

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2015
1,864
2,871
Germany
As I said, Apple is being sued around the world(US,EU,AU,UK, now India too and more to come). Of course all these lawsuits and antitrust monopoly/duopoly trials will have different outcomes, but overall this will lead to multiple AppStores, multiple Payments Platforms, Open NFC hardware access and the beloved sideloading.
Hate the outcomes, but face it, I will ❤️ it.
 

laptech

macrumors 6502a
Apr 26, 2013
988
1,370
Earth
From apple.com: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/japan-fair-trade-commission-closes-app-store-investigation/. Apple will also help developers of reader apps protect users when they link them to an external website to make purchases.

Looks clear enough to me.
Yes I see that but it means Apple are also guilty of making the same contradiction error:

Quoted from the same article
Because developers of reader apps do not offer in-app digital goods and services for purchase, Apple agreed with the JFTC to let developers of these apps share a single link to their website to help users set up and manage their account.

So if according to Apple 'reader apps' do not offer in-app digital goods and services for purchase, just exactly what is Apple going to help users purchase?

If someone writes an article that is not very clear or is in some parts in contradiction of what they have written, they do not just copy verbatim from their source material. They are to investigate the written source and make sure it makes sense. Apple is guilty of contradicting themselves and for not making sense and MR is guilty of doing the same.

If Apple's intention is to allow or specifically allow app developers to provide in-app links to external websites for the purpose of making purchases then why doesn't Apple make this very clear instead of stating, and i quote from the same article:
Apple today announced an update coming to the App Store that closes an investigation by the Japan Fair Trade Commission (JFTC). The update will allow developers of “reader” apps to include an in-app link to their website for users to set up or manage an account

If 'set up or manage an account' implicitly implies that app developers can provide in-app links to external websites for the purpose of making purchases then why not say so? People are assumng it means just that but you cant make assumptions here, the information needs to be factual, precise and clear and it is not. Both Apple and MR have written an article that clearly contradicts themselves which should not be allowed to happen.
 

laptech

macrumors 6502a
Apr 26, 2013
988
1,370
Earth
Well, I guess in most cases 'account management' implies registering of payment method along with other options.
But this is just it, there can be no 'implied' or assumption' to what 'account management' means because it is well known that Apple has never allowed app developers to provide external website links in their app that takes them away from the app to make purchases outside of the app. When app developers have tried this, Apple has either told the app developer to ammend their app or the app has been removed from the app store. So to allow them to do this is a monumental decision to make.

Due to the serverity of allowing app developers to have in-app links that take the user out of the app and to an external website for the purpose of making purchases, it needs to be factualy clear what 'account management' means because if people go around saying Apple is allowing outside the app purchases to take place, Apple could come back and say 'no, that is not what we are saying' or that they are being misquoted.
 

SurferPup

macrumors 6502
Aug 20, 2011
420
310
Sunshine Coast, 🇦🇺 Australia
Private enterprise creates a global digital platform to connect buyers and sellers which is secure and sellers keep more profit than sold via a physical store. The buyer avoids postage, has portability and delivered quickly, only limited by their Internet speed. Why do Governments have to break a business model that is not broken?
 
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rgeneral

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2012
232
653
Private enterprise creates a global digital platform to connect buyers and sellers which is secure and sellers keep more profit than sold via a physical store. The buyer avoids postage, has portability and delivered quickly, only limited by their Internet speed. Why do Governments have to break a business model that is not broken?
Because now they don’t need the store. They want to make more money themselves.
 

gsurf123

macrumors 6502
Jun 1, 2017
277
446
Following their logic I should solicit my local, state, and federal governments for them stop collection of all taxes and fees such as sales, property, income. All of these hinder my success.
 

q64ceo

macrumors 6502
Aug 13, 2010
390
446
Following their logic I should solicit my local, state, and federal governments for them stop collection of all taxes and fees such as sales, property, income. All of these hinder my success.

There are a buncha people already doing so. Their success has been quite limited so far.
 

PC_tech

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2019
524
606
As I said, Apple is being sued around the world(US,EU,AU,UK, now India too and more to come). Of course all these lawsuits and antitrust monopoly/duopoly trials will have different outcomes, but overall this will lead to multiple AppStores, multiple Payments Platforms, Open NFC hardware access and the beloved sideloading.
Hate the outcomes, but face it, I will ❤️ it.
But... But.... Think of Apple! They may go broke over this!🙄🙄🙄😂😂
 

I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
27,378
15,736
Gotta be in it to win it
Yes I see that but it means Apple are also guilty of making the same contradiction error:

Quoted from the same article


So if according to Apple 'reader apps' do not offer in-app digital goods and services for purchase, just exactly what is Apple going to help users purchase?

If someone writes an article that is not very clear or is in some parts in contradiction of what they have written, they do not just copy verbatim from their source material. They are to investigate the written source and make sure it makes sense. Apple is guilty of contradicting themselves and for not making sense and MR is guilty of doing the same.

If Apple's intention is to allow or specifically allow app developers to provide in-app links to external websites for the purpose of making purchases then why doesn't Apple make this very clear instead of stating, and i quote from the same article:


If 'set up or manage an account' implicitly implies that app developers can provide in-app links to external websites for the purpose of making purchases then why not say so? People are assumng it means just that but you cant make assumptions here, the information needs to be factual, precise and clear and it is not. Both Apple and MR have written an article that clearly contradicts themselves which should not be allowed to happen.
Reader apps...digital content consumption apps like Netflix will be allowed to say go to "www . netflix . com" to sign up.
 
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bobenhaus

macrumors 6502a
Mar 2, 2011
845
312
As I said, Apple is being sued around the world(US,EU,AU,UK, now India too and more to come). Of course all these lawsuits and antitrust monopoly/duopoly trials will have different outcomes, but overall this will lead to multiple AppStores, multiple Payments Platforms, Open NFC hardware access and the beloved sideloading.
Hate the outcomes, but face it, I will ❤️ it.

Looks like The chickens are coming home to roost . Gobble Gobble.
 
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whyamihere

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2008
591
1,185
'nati
"The existence of the 30% commission means that some app developers will never make it to the market ... This could also result in consumer harm"

While there could be an argument made against the App Store, this sure ain't it. Numerous app developers DO make it to the market solely because the App Store exists and would have never had the ability otherwise.

Also, if the app developer is just starting out in the market, then they won't be paying 30% anyway, they'd most certainly be under $1 million and thus only pay 15%.

Again, not arguing for or against App Store changes, but this is a flawed argument and needs to be called out.
 

gregmancuso

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2014
207
218
"The existence of the 30% commission means that some app developers will never make it to the market ... This could also result in consumer harm"

While there could be an argument made against the App Store, this sure ain't it. Numerous app developers DO make it to the market solely because the App Store exists and would have never had the ability otherwise.

Also, if the app developer is just starting out in the market, then they won't be paying 30% anyway, they'd most certainly be under $1 million and thus only pay 15%.

Again, not arguing for or against App Store changes, but this is a flawed argument and needs to be called out.
The App Store model actually facilitates getting to market. The commission structure allows for reduced development costs. Traditional development, such as for a game platform, incurs costs for API and SDK access, developer certificates, application submission fees, and the like. That is before the commissions are imposed. A new developer trying to submit a game to Nintendo will spend tens of thousands of dollars BEFORE buying a workstation (PC or Mac) and writing a single line of code.

With the App Store the only barrier to entry is the cost of the Mac. I'd venture there are a large number of professional development houses that are only professional development houses because the upfront costs were so low.
 
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_Spinn_

macrumors 65816
Nov 6, 2020
1,196
2,891
Wisconsin
The group claims, in their case, that Apple's standard 30% commission for in-app purchases "hurts competition" since it raises costs for both the developer and the customer.
Does no one remember how expensive software used to be before the app store? Prices won't go down with third party payments. I haven't seen any news about apps reducing prices when their fee went to 15%.
 
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ksec

macrumors 68000
Dec 23, 2015
1,839
1,984
Right, this is it. India has the smallest percentage of iPhone users, and contribute very little to Apple's bottom line. It is time for Apple to have guts and PULL OUT of India as Macrumors comment has been calling for. Join the ranks of EU, UK, South Korea, ( Japan is off the list for now I guess ).

It is Apple's iPhone, Apple's App Store and Apple's iOS, they can do whatever they want !

/s.
 
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axcess99

macrumors regular
Jul 1, 2005
106
111
Can someone explain how it "hurts competition"? Wouldn't apple charge the competition have the same/similar rate such that everyone has the same overhead*. Does it not hurt competition at some other percentage?

* I am aware they have a small business program for a 15% and I think for recurring subscriptions.
 

CarlJ

Contributor
Feb 23, 2004
5,599
9,834
San Diego, CA, USA
As I said, Apple is being sued around the world(US,EU,AU,UK, now India too and more to come). Of course all these lawsuits and antitrust monopoly/duopoly trials will have different outcomes, but overall this will lead to multiple AppStores, multiple Payments Platforms, Open NFC hardware access and the beloved sideloading.
Hate the outcomes, but face it, I will ❤️ it.
Hurrah! Let's take away consumer choice! Now, instead of choosing between the Apple way of doing things (walled garden, etc.) and the Google way, we'll all only have the Google way available. You get what you wanted, and everyone else gets... what you wanted, instead of maybe what they wanted. Great outcome.
 
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