Apple Countersues Qualcomm for Patent Infringement Related to Snapdragon Chips

[kdarling]

The biggest issue with qualcomm is that the way they leverage their patents worth (tying the % to the total product price instead of a FRAND-like rate in which they get paid for their specific contribution, has led to us not having 3G and LTE baked into high-ticket items like laptops.

Even China's government has ruled that this is a valid method for Qualcomm, and China can say anything they want.

That's because tying royalty to product price is a valid, common method of licensing IP and services, and is in no way just a Qualcomm method.

All the other major cellular IP holders (e.g. Nokia, Ericsson, LG, Samsung, Interdigital, Huawei, Motorola, ZTE, etc) also publicly announce their starting negotiation rates as a percentage of device price.

Apple, of course, would dearly love to find a judge or jury to rule otherwise. They've sued many of the companies in the above list in such an attempt, and have so far failed. But they keep trying.

Qualcomm is not in any way entitles to the same % of profit off of a 256GB iPhone X as they are a 8GB burner on the shelf at best buy. Their contribution is the same, they should accept the 25-50 cents per device and stop extorting the middle and high end market, and honestly shutting off new markets altogether.

One could say the same about Apple wanting 30% of each app or media sale. Why don't they just accept the 25 cents it costs them per download instead?

Heck, Apple originally demanded 10% of each third party device's price for using "Made For iPhone" tech, with a $10 minimum. That's way more than Qualcomm asks for far, far more important tech.

Clearly *any* product with Qualcomm cellular modems in it will be *wildly* profitable / successful then ...

I don't think anyone would pay $1,000 for an iPhone X that used no Qualcomm technology, because it would be missing huge parts of WiFi, 2G, 3G, and 4G. In other words, it'd barely rise to the level of an iPod touch.

 

[Kabeyun]

I am just worried about employees of Qualcomm. If Qualcomm end up being levied heavy fines and with Apple stopping buying from them, I hope none of the hard working employees of Qualcomm lose their jobs..

Not a strong argument in favor of patent violation.

 

[StevieD100]

I guess when you're out of ideas you just have to sue.

BTW 2nd Christmas in a row, no Apple stuff under the tree. Really wish Apple had stuff I'd like to buy or give. Just the same boring old stuff. How many watch bands and iPads can one use?

Yep, I have money sitting in the bank waiting to be spent. I had hoped that the iMac Pro might have been available but it won't so I may well go and spend it on a new Camera. Their gain is Apple's loss.

 

[Glideslope]

When 2 giants fight, some small guys always get hurt…

Yes. However it’s always been this way.
Even in the EU these days.

 

[macs4nw]

Man, we should've been lawyers.

Actually, never mind. When I was living there, I had several high powered lawyer friends in NYC who all said they hated their jobs. They had become lawyers thinking they were going to change the world and help people find justice, but instead spent all their time fighting for huge corporations and filling out billing forms to make their firm money.

Most of us can relate to that. There's that pivotal moment in life when upon gradually realizing that not everything is 'black and white', greed unfortunately all too often starts to replace idealism.

Another reason why Steve's 2005 commencement address to Stanford's graduating class about the constant and necessary renewal in life was so smack on the money.

 

[Naraxus]

Sure about that?


patent troll
noun
informal, derogatory

1. a company that obtains the rights to one or more patents in order to profit by means of licensing or litigation, rather than by producing its own goods or services.

He's not wrong you know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Consortium

Members of the consortium are Apple Inc., BlackBerry, Ericsson, Microsoft, and Sony.[4] Rockstar is a patent holding non-practicing entity (NPE) and submitted the winning US$4.5 billion bid for the Nortel patents at a week-long auction held in New York in June 2011.

 

[CB1234]

Not a strong argument in favor of patent violation.

I am not arguing for either Qualcomm or Apple, just concerned about people losing livelihoods...

 

[deanthedev]

You are free to invent your own definitions if you wish, so long as you acknowledge that the definition you are using is not the definition everyone else in the world and industry uses.

Gee, I guess reading the patent reform bill (in the US) and all the changes they want to make (of which I quoted several) don’t count?
[doublepost=1511977351][/doublepost]

Sounds like your spewing the bs. You can’t even post without praising Apple and insulting Samsung.

So, nothing to counter my points? Got it.

 

[Phonephreak]

Gee, I guess reading the patent reform bill (in the US) and all the changes they want to make (of which I quoted several) don’t count?
[doublepost=1511977351][/doublepost]

So, nothing to counter my points? Got it.

I was just commenting on your post. You can’t even try to make a point with out praising Apple and trashing a competitor. Got I.T. Lol. Bugs

 

[deanthedev]

One could say the same about Apple wanting 30% of each app or media sale. Why don't they just accept the 25 cents it costs them per download instead.

Aaaaaand......here we go yet again.

Retail markup on products is NOT the same as charging fees on a small component of a complicated device based on its final sale price.

This has actually been pointed out to you several times here at MR yet you continue to post the same comment over and over.
[doublepost=1511977775][/doublepost]

I was just commenting on your post. You can’t even try to make a point with out praising Apple and trashing a competitor. Got I.T. Lol. Bugs

All I do is tell the truth. Sorry it bothers you so much. Unless you can point to anything I said about Apple or a competitor that’s false.

 

[Naraxus]

Here you go again with your usual BS.

Apple profits hugely from iOS and their software services, from their vastly superior processors that are light years ahead of Samsung and Qualcomm, from their outstanding service/support, from the premium construction of their devices and many other small details.

Qualcomm is a minor contributor to the success of the iPhone, though they like to pretend they are a major reason. This allows them to justify what they feel they’re owed.

His point was that without Qualcomm and their patents the iPhone would just be a piece of glass and aluminum sans the phone - essentially an iPod Touch.

 

[FelixDerKater]

Snap it up and hope Intel comes through next year...

 

[deanthedev]

His point was that without Qualcomm and their patents the iPhone would just be a piece of glass and aluminum sans the phone - essentially an iPod Touch.

No, his point this time (and the numerous previous times) is that Qualcomm’s modems are a primary reason for the success of the iPhone. Which is wrong.

 

[gavroche]

He's not wrong you know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Consortium

Members of the consortium are Apple Inc., BlackBerry, Ericsson, Microsoft, and Sony.[4] Rockstar is a patent holding non-practicing entity (NPE) and submitted the winning US$4.5 billion bid for the Nortel patents at a week-long auction held in New York in June 2011.

what you linked to says nothing about his post. that Apple actually makes products and services.. so pointing out that they were part of a group that bought some patents doesn't change that they are still making products using those patents (as opposed to getting patents and your sole source of income is from licensing or suing). oh. why bother.... nevermind. people see what they want to see.
[doublepost=1511978817][/doublepost]

Sounds like your spewing the bs. You can’t even post without praising Apple and insulting Samsung.

Not sure how he is supposed to give his reasons why Apple is successful without "praising.". And if what he said was "insulting Samsung" well.. wow.

 

[Regime2008]

[doublepost=1511978817][/doublepost]

Not sure how he is supposed to give his reasons why Apple is successful without "praising.". And if what he said was "insulting Samsung" well.. wow.

Type in the search bar at the top, "Samsung" and where it says posted by, type in his username. There will be threads strictly related to Apple, yet somehow he adds a sneak-diss to Android/Samsung/Google at any chance he gets.

Edit: Actually you can replace Samsung with Android or Google, and see even more of this.

 

[cmaier]

Gee, I guess reading the patent reform bill (in the US) and all the changes they want to make (of which I quoted several) don’t count?
[doublepost=1511977351][/doublepost]

So, nothing to counter my points? Got it.

Nothing you've cited says a patent troll is anything other than an NPE. " NPE" was invented because we can't say "troll" in court - judges don't like it.

 

[Naraxus]

what you linked to says nothing about his post. that Apple actually makes products and services.. so pointing out that they were part of a group that bought some patents doesn't change that they are still making products using those patents (as opposed to getting patents and your sole source of income is from licensing or suing). oh. why bother.... nevermind. people see what they want to see.

Actually if you bothered to read the link it says everything about his post. His post was re: Apple not fitting the definition of a patent troll when in fact Apple was precisely that. Apple bought those Nortel patents with the express purpose of using them as a spear against Google/Android - hence the term NPE due to Apple setting up a shell company to leverage them without producing any products.

 

[appleCakes]

We are witnessing an amazing 1-2 play between Apple and Broadcom to take Qualcomm down; negativities piling up on Qualcomm will be helping (pro-Broadcom) Qualcomm Director nominees to be announced on or before December 8 to finalize the acquisition.

Fast Forward 5-10 years my friends, Apple and Google and Huawei will be making their hardware and software and will be the dominant 3 phone makers.

 

[gavroche]

Type in the search bar at the top, "Samsung" and where it says posted by, type in his username. There will be threads strictly related to Apple, yet somehow he adds a sneak-diss to Android/Samsung/Google at any chance he gets.

Edit: Actually you can replace Samsung with Android or Google, and see even more of this.

OK.. gotcha. I thought your comment was just about the one thing he said in that one post...

 

[mi7chy]

This is not just an Apple vs Qualcomm battle. This is a Chinese government + Intel + Broadcom + Apple vs Qualcomm + Microsoft war. Chinese government + Intel + Broadcom want to kill Qualcomm's radio dominance and Intel + Apple want to prematurely kill Microsoft Windows 10 on Qualcomm Snapdragon partnership that will make iPads and some Intel based laptops/hybrids obsolete.

What's best for consumers, domestic jobs and retaining Western intellectual property is for Qualcomm to prevail.

 

[deanthedev]

Nothing you've cited says a patent troll is anything other than an NPE. " NPE" was invented because we can't say "troll" in court - judges don't like it.

I said patent trolls are most often NPEs. That doesn’t mean an NPE is automatically a patent troll. It also doesn’t mean a company that makes products can’t act in the same manner as a patent troll.
[doublepost=1511982082][/doublepost]

Type in the search bar at the top, "Samsung" and where it says posted by, type in his username. There will be threads strictly related to Apple, yet somehow he adds a sneak-diss to Android/Samsung/Google at any chance he gets.

Edit: Actually you can replace Samsung with Android or Google, and see even more of this.

I’m still telling the truth. Perhaps you want to find any posts of mind where I lied? Or should I stop posting facts?

 

[gavroche]

Actually if you bothered to read the link it says everything about his post. His post was re: Apple not fitting the definition of a patent troll when in fact Apple was precisely that. Apple bought those Nortel patents with the express purpose of using them as a spear against Google/Android - hence the term NPE due to Apple setting up a shell company to leverage them without producing any products.

No need to be snarky. I read his post, and yours. He pointed out that the definition of a Patent Troll is a company that doesn't actually use the patents (doesn't make any products or services), but rather just acquires the patents in order to sue for money. Your reply was to a link where Apple was part of a group that was formed to acquire some patents. (EDIT: I see how you get confused because they mention Rockstar being a NPE. But the whole point of a consortium, and having to form a third party entity to purchase the group of patents, was that its easier for a bunch of companies to go in on the patents together, than be in a bidding war against each other. In fact, it goes directly against your assertions about Apple. Because these companies were willing to work together because they knew they could work out common usage of the patents, without trying to extort money from each other. They just wanted usage of the tech, without being gouged.) But that does not counter his point at all. If Apple, like the other members, wanted the patents in order to not have to pay royalties on technology it was using, then that has nothing to do with being a Patent Troll. Because as the other person defined... they are MAKING PRODUCTS AND SERVICES. They did not buy the patents for the sole purpose of suing and getting money for them.

I know its hard for many to understand, but its a very different thing to acquire a patent in order to use the technology, versus acquiring the patent because you want to make others pay to use the technology.

 

[kdarling]

Aaaaaand......here we go yet again.

Being rude doesn't help your case.

Retail markup on products is NOT the same as charging fees on a small component of a complicated device based on its final sale price.

Sure it is. Apple charges a percentage for (forcibly) being the only standard host for an app. Apple doesn't write the apps, but the more important or popular an app is, the more they profit from it.

No, his point this time (and the numerous previous times) is that Qualcomm’s modems are a primary reason for the success of the iPhone. Which is wrong.

You make a lot of assumptions. I never said primary. And I certainly never said "Qualcomm modem", which shows a huge misunderstanding on your part about what IP we're talking about.

I said patent trolls are most often NPEs. That doesn’t mean an NPE is automatically a patent troll. It also doesn’t mean a company that makes products can’t act in the same manner as a patent troll.

Ironically, I actually agree with you on this. An NPE isn't automatically a patent troll in my book either. For example, many universities license their inventions for the good of us all.

However, bear in mind that cmaier is a practicing patent attorney, so it behooves us to listen to what he's trying to say when it comes to how judges and lawyers think.

 

[gavroche]

An NPE isn't automatically a patent troll in my book either. For example, many universities license their inventions for the good of us all.

Agree. Another valid example of an NPE is the Rockstar consortium that Apple was a part of. They partnered up with some other big companies to put in a joint bid on a group of patents. It made more sense to join forces, than have a bidding war. They weren't interested in trying to get the patents to use them to profit off the other guys. They just wanted rights to used the tech. If you have multiple parties that want to go in together, they had to form a separate entity to receive the patents. Nothing malicious about that.

 

[jicon]

If I might... interject... Can we look to build a ten foot circular wall, akin to the Apple Spaceship campus, with a nice glass. Ensure said interior has all of the world's lawyers where they can congregate, plan lawsuits against each other. Once all lawyers have had opportunity to make their case to each other, fill said interior with ten feet of water.

Thank you.

/s