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The Police is still on the case, perhaps the thief will be found and both Uber and Apple will have to deal with it

Also, you may never know and they won't talk to you but Apple having lost the dispute will now probably not let the issue rest with Uber.
 
The Police is still on the case, perhaps the thief will be found and both Uber and Apple will have to deal with it

Also, you may never know and they won't talk to you but Apple having lost the dispute will now probably not let the issue rest with Uber.

Ya I can see that. They wouldn't go after Uber to get my money back but they sure will to get their own.
 
Ya I can see that. They wouldn't go after Uber to get my money back but they sure will to get their own.
The theft is really nothing to do with you. Uber never stole anything from you.

They stole from Apple. It was a civil issue with Apple for you on the basis they didn’t complete their side of the contract.
 
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My bank confirmed 3 times it is Visa that makes the final decision. Not the bank. Visa deals with the bank not with card holders. Unless the bank is lying to me for some reason.

It would be strange if your bank deliberately lied to you about your situation because it is part of a highly regulated industry in Canada. So I looked more deeply into chargebacks and what happens when a card holder refuses to accept a bank's decision. You are correct that Visa, the payment network, does get involved as an arbitrator as the absolute last step in the chargeback process. This happens if the merchant's bank and the card holder's bank reach an impasse after a card holder rejects a merchant's offered proof.

For anybody interested, here is how the chargeback process works from a merchant's perspective, direct from a major provider of merchant card acceptance services:
 
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I doubt your bank was deliberately lying to you because it is part of a highly regulated industry in Canada. So I looked more deeply into how chargebacks work when a card holder refuses to accept a bank's decision. You are correct that Visa, the payment network, does get involved as an arbitrator as the absolute last step in the chargeback process. This happens if the merchant's bank and the card holder's bank reach an impasse after a card holder rejects a merchant's offered proof.

For anybody interested, here is how the chargeback process works from a merchant's perspective, direct from a major provider of merchant card acceptance services:

Ya I was under the impression as well that my bank would be making all the decisions. Was kinda worried that Visa would be making the call since Apple brings Visa an incredible amount of business.
 
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Don't like the sound of this though 😳
 
Apple's Q1 Conference call.

"We had to write off $0.0000025B for some stolen macbooks. Sorry of the earnings loss, investors."
That lady Six0Four mentioned several times could receive a call from Tim, perhaps Facetime on his Vision Pro asking about his two Macbooks.

Considering those are the best Macbooks Apple has ever made things could get serious.

View attachment 2470410

Don't like the sound of this though 😳
Well in any decent country a court of law is always a resort.
 
View attachment 2470410

Don't like the sound of this though 😳

It would be interesting to find out if Apple ever does this and in what circumstances. It obviously has the legal and financial resources to do so easily but the expense and potential negative media attention would far outweigh the monetary benefit in most cases.


Was kinda worried that Visa would be making the call since Apple brings Visa an incredible amount of business.

On the other hand, Visa and Apple might not be BFFs. The Apple Card is a MasterCard!

Now that I've thought about this more, I wonder what effects, if any, a chargeback that goes all the way to arbitration has on future transaction approvals. Now that algorithms and AI make most approval decisions, I would be surprised if card-not-present transactions weren't affected in some way.
 
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View attachment 2470410

Don't like the sound of this though 😳
The times I've dealt with Amex they are really great!

I had ended a connection with a company and my Amex said that XXX money was reserved to be charged my Amex account by this company.

So I just had a short chat with Amex, and they removed it immediately. Now I'm pretty sure that the company in question would've payed it back. But why waste a lot of time with even let them charge me something that was incorrectly charged?!
 
What happened to the Uber driver...did they get away with the theft?

As soon as I received the chargeback from Visa I notified the Police. They never replied to my email and I haven't heard from them or anyone else since.

I always had a feeling that the thief would get away with it. Apple and Uber definitely didn't care and I got the vibe from the Police that they weren't going to pursue it too much. The Police were helpful but they seemed pretty busy.

The Apple ID connected to that order is still working as well on an old iPhone of mine. Thought they would have locked it. But in the end maybe they now believe me. Not like they would ever admit it.
 
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As soon as I received the chargeback from Visa I notified the Police. They never replied to my email and I haven't heard from them or anyone else since.

I always had a feeling that the thief would get away with it. Apple and Uber definitely didn't care and I got the vibe from the Police that they weren't going to pursue it too much. The Police were helpful but they seemed pretty busy.

The Apple ID connected to that order is still working as well on an old iPhone of mine. Thought they would have locked it. But in the end maybe they now believe me. Not like they would ever admit it.
The issue of ownership was always at Apple's door. As others have stated, the Uber driver stole from Apple, not from you because you had not received the items. Apple tried to remove themselves from ownership by claiming the items had been delivered. Now the issue has been sorted, ownership of the stolen macbooks moves back to Apple's door. The police should be contacting Apple to ask if they want the theft to carry on being investigated. Apple will more than likely say no and absorb the loss. What Apple will probably now do is drop Uber as their delivery partner and look to use another company instead.
 
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The issue of ownership was always at Apple's door. As others have stated, the Uber driver stole from Apple, not from you because you had not received the items. Apple tried to remove themselves from ownership by claiming the items had been delivered. Now the issue has been sorted, ownership of the stolen macbooks moves back to Apple's door. The police should be contacting Apple to ask if they want the theft to carry on being investigated. Apple will more than likely say no and absorb the loss. What Apple will probably now do is drop Uber as their delivery partner and look to use another company instead.

Yup, good points. Although I don't see them dropping Uber as a delivery partner since this has been happeing to many people for years and Apple is well aware. Even if losing thousands a day in stolen items it still probably ends up being much cheaper for them to continue using fast food delivery drivers compared to a proper courier.
 
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Yup, good points. Although I don't see them dropping Uber as a delivery partner since this has been happeing to many people for years and Apple is well aware. Even if losing thousands a day in stolen items it still probably ends up being much cheaper for them to continue using fast food delivery drivers compared to a proper courier.
Unfortunately that is how many companies think. They crunch the numbers and work out if the total cost of losses over the year due to theft comes in cheaper than having a more expensive deal with another courier. Which is why you will most probably be right, it would be cheaper for Apple to absorb the losses due to theft from Uber over the year than to ditch Uber and have a more expensive deal with a more reputable courier.
 
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Apple 'steals from themselves', and that's what we customers pays for.
Not the exact obvious deal here, but ethically it seems fairly close.

In this case, someone stole from Apple, and they ignore it as the customer had payed with Visa and got their money back from them.
Apple use disorriented and really bad couriers here today as well. To not speak about there trade-in partner. It's a nightmare.
Earlier (before Timmy) it was the absolutely best and reliable services from Apple.

But Apple's service's have declined so fast that that it's really obvious that generally Apple don't care about it and service anymore, at all.
They want us to buy from resellers today - so they can only produce and leave the rest to others.
So that's is what I am gonna do next time, and in the future, around here.
Apple is ok to deal with high up in the their 'military chain', but not the one's you usually get connected to. They are only sitting there to learn, and know pretty much nothing at all.
 
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As soon as I received the chargeback from Visa I notified the Police. They never replied to my email and I haven't heard from them or anyone else since.

I always had a feeling that the thief would get away with it. Apple and Uber definitely didn't care and I got the vibe from the Police that they weren't going to pursue it too much. The Police were helpful but they seemed pretty busy.

The Apple ID connected to that order is still working as well on an old iPhone of mine. Thought they would have locked it. But in the end maybe they now believe me. Not like they would ever admit it.

For you it was of course very annoyingly personal, but for Apple, I suspect that Apple's response was likely a long established protocol and never really an issue of believing you or not.

I suspect Apple is unwilling to pay for staff to spend time investigating since it's inevitable that most of the time it'll just add more dollars to the amount already lost due to the theft. Like any retailer, Apple knows people steal from them...employees, delivery drivers, organized thieves, random opportunistic customers...and like any retailer Apple is going to try to minimize their losses.

Yes, the individuals you talked to on the phone may or may not have believed you, but I suspect they didn't really have much, or any, input in the decision. They just answer the phone, enter your info into the computer, and move on to the next call.

And as you had the misfortune to find out, the process doesn't feel at all good for the unfortunate customer.
 
Never had a stolen shipment from Apple but FedEx did boff up a delivery earlier this year. They missed the next day deliver and several website updates on delivery hour, and then showed it as delivered when it was not. I called Apple and they were very supportive and responsive. On the second day FedEx missed a number of day of time delivery updates and missed the delivery by end of day. I am pretty cheesed now because I am on my way out of town. Called Apple and canceled the order and they put in a 'return to sender'. I guess someone else in Apple got irked because at about 9 p.m. that evening there is a FedEx employee, in a personal car, leaving the phone on my front porch...unsigned for.

I called Apple to ask what they wanted to do as the RTS had been sent and a refund on my CC had been sent, also let them know the phone was not signed for. Apple was not happy about the phone not being signed for. Anyway, I kept the phone as I needed it, someone in FedEx probably had a good talk to but in the end, in my case, Apple was there all the way for me. I believe that often it has to do with the Apple representative that answers the call and how well you work with them. If ever I have an Apple product stolen during shipment, I may have the same issue as the OP, I certainly hope not.
 
And as you had the misfortune to find out, the process doesn't feel at all good for the unfortunate customer.
Especially considering that if it were up to Apple the customer would not have seen their money again. Apple was happy to charge and never deliver the goods which is fraud. And if anyone tried to do that to Apple then Apple would not hesitate to take them to court for fraud either. It's one thing to have a process that doesn't feel good for the customer, what happened here was something entirely different.
 
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Just read this thread and wow this was a big mess created by Apple and UberEats. What a wild and stressful journey for the OP. But I am glad that he was able to finally at least get the chargeback off his VISA card, even though the situation was nowhere near properly handled.

Thankfully I have never had a package stolen from my residence. I've only had to deal with Apple Corporate Support once over a complaint when they refused to cover a repair for my iPhone 12 PM because they stated that my AppleCare had lapsed and I was not current on the payments. Fortunately for me I was able to produce bank records that showed I had never missed a payment and got a quick response back that my phone had been fixed and was ready to be picked up. 😊

The problem you have with so many corporations is that most of the people tasked with handling problems and customer complaints are actually powerless to really do anything. They are often told by upper management to just give the customer the run-around and get them off the phone as quickly as they can. The idea is to just slowly wear the customer down over time until they eventually just give up and go away.

If you can ever get to somebody that is high up in a company they usually are your only real chance at getting the matter handled appropriately. It's just getting to that person that is often the biggest challenge.
 
Reading the replies from members in here posting their experiences of issues with Apple it is clear to me that Tim Cook has failed in his duty as CEO because good customer service is the corner stone of any company and it is clear when it comes to Apple, the customer service you get depends entirely on the customer service rep you speak too. Tim Cook should be making sure that EVERY customer service rep offers the same level of top level customer service because there should never ever be situations where one customer says Apple customer service was great and another Apple customer service saying Apple service was very bad. Every Apple customer service rep should be operating from the same customer service policy and when they do not senior management should be finding out why and make sure it does not happen again.

The situation with the OP is a classic case of how customer service should not behave. Apple's behavior was that they did not believe the OP, Uber was believed instead. Even when the OP gave Apple all the information they required, even CCTV footage, Apple still did not believe the OP. As we learnt, Apple never contacted the police, the police had to contact Apple. The OP was the one that had to do all the chasing around as to how the investigation was going on. The ONLY shinning light in all of this was VISA. They appear to have investigated, looked at all the info the OP supplied to Apple, the police and their bank and came to the conclusion that the OP was in the right.

I've worked in a couple of number of companies during my time and therefore know a little bit about how customer service works when it comes to issues of stolen/non delivered items. What should have happened is this. The OP reports to Apple that items signed off as delivered have not been delivered. Theft has clearly taken place. The Apple customer rep should have then apologized to the OP that they did not receive the high level of customer service that they expect. Because a claim of theft is being made, the rep should have then requested that the OP reports the theft to the police so a crime number can be obtained. For those that do not know, this crime number is required by Apple's insurance company who cover Apple for any liabilities, theft being one of them. Apple would claim theft losses against their insurers but to do so the insurers would require a crime number so they can process Apple's liability claim.

Once the crime number is given to Apple, the rep should have then said to the OP 'Thank you for the crime number. I will now be speaking to our courier to find out what has transpired'. If Uber claim nothing wrong has taken place, the Apple rep should then contact the OP telling them the courier is denying anything was wrong. The rep should have then asked the OP do they have CCTV footage of the delivery taking place. The OP would say yes but the landlord would only give the CCTV footage to the police. The rep should then say 'That's OK, please give the police this phone number so I can speak with them to obtain the CCTV footage'. Once that has taken place and Apple get the CCTV footage, the Apple rep should then contact the OP telling them that they have reviewed the CCTV footage and it disputed what their courier said and as such they find in your favor and will be either issuing a refund or replacement macbooks'.

THAT is how it should have happened but no, Apple decided to play the hard way and in my opinion the wrong way. This is why the company CEO needs to get involved because this is not how Apple customer support should have behaved and the CEO should put a stop to it.
 
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Reading the replies from members in here posting their experiences of issues with Apple it is clear to me that Tim Cook has failed in his duty as CEO because good customer service is the corner stone of any company and it is clear when it comes to Apple, the customer service you get depends entirely on the customer service rep you speak too. Tim Cook should be making sure that EVERY customer service rep offers the same level of top level customer service because there should never ever be situations where one customer says Apple customer service was great and another Apple customer service saying Apple service was very bad. Every Apple customer service rep should be operating from the same customer service policy and when they do not senior management should be finding out why and make sure it does not happen again.

The situation with the OP is a classic case of how customer service should not behave. Apple's behavior was that they did not believe the OP, Uber was believed instead. Even when the OP gave Apple all the information they required, even CCTV footage, Apple still did not believe the OP. As we learnt, Apple never contacted the police, the police had to contact Apple. The OP was the one that had to do all the chasing around as to how the investigation was going on. The ONLY shinning light in all of this was VISA. They appear to have investigated, looked at all the info the OP supplied to Apple, the police and their bank and came to the conclusion that the OP was in the right.

I've worked in a couple of number of companies during my time and therefore know a little bit about how customer service works when it comes to issues of stolen/non delivered items. What should have happened is this. The OP reports to Apple that items signed off as delivered have not been delivered. Theft has clearly taken place. The Apple customer rep should have then apologized to the OP that they did not receive the high level of customer service that they expect. Because a claim of theft is being made, the rep should have then requested that the OP reports the theft to the police so a crime number can be obtained. For those that do not know, this crime number is required by Apple's insurance company who cover Apple for any liabilities, theft being one of them. Apple would claim theft losses against their insurers but to do so the insurers would require a crime number so they can process Apple's liability claim.

Once the crime number is given to Apple, the rep should have then said to the OP 'Thank you for the crime number. I will now be speaking to our courier to find out what has transpired'. If Uber claim nothing wrong has taken place, the Apple rep should then contact the OP telling them the courier is denying anything was wrong. The rep should have then asked the OP do they have CCTV footage of the delivery taking place. The OP would say yes but the landlord would only give the CCTV footage to the police. The rep should then say 'That's OK, please give the police this phone number so I can speak with them to obtain the CCTV footage'. Once that has taken place and Apple get the CCTV footage, the Apple rep should then contact the OP telling them that they have reviewed the CCTV footage and it disputed what their courier said and as such they find in your favor and will be either issuing a refund or replacement macbooks'.

THAT is how it should have happened but no, Apple decided to play the hard way and in my opinion the wrong way. This is why the company CEO needs to get involved because this is not how Apple customer support should have behaved and the CEO should put a stop to it.

Well said pal.

It was Apples "retail executive relations" that treated me the worst by far. This one lady that handled my case. They are above senior management. They are the people that reply to Tim Cooks emails. I just lost $2500 and she treated me like garbage. Like a criminal. And once she was on my case no one at Apple would speak to me about the issue because there was a note on my file. So when I would plead for help from senior management they would say "Right now it looks like this issue is in ownership by our executive relations dept". Since it is legal in my province I have the recordings.
 
Well said pal.

It was Apples "retail executive relations" that treated me the worst by far. This one lady that handled my case. They are above senior management. They are the people that reply to Tim Cooks emails. I just lost $2500 and she treated me like garbage. Like a criminal. And once she was on my case no one at Apple would speak to me about the issue because there was a note on my file. So when I would plead for help from senior management they would say "Right now it looks like this issue is in ownership by our executive relations dept". Since it is legal in my province I have the recordings.
This is why Tim Cook as CEO has failed. Good customer service applies to ALL levels within a company, from the low paid 1st level reps way up to the executive level. The problem is when it comes to the executive level because the next level above them is the CEO and this is where situations can show either the CEO is complacent and ignorant of the behavior of the executive branch or the CEO is cognitive of ALL branches within the company and employees behavior, especially at the executive level.

The Apple employee at the executive level who handled your case should either be fired or go through extensive training on how to properly behave and respond to customer complaints/issues. But who is going to tell Tim Cook about that executive employee's appalling behavior towards you? The employee is certainly not going to tell on themselves.

Another thing, reading back my post, your issue should have never got to the executive level in the first place if the person on the lower level had acted in the way they should have done as described in my post. The fact they did not is why you had to push it to the executive level and even then the person at that level treated you with distain.
 
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