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The tit
And you stated that I didn’t read the article, just the title, and the title and the article agree with each other. Im not saying I agree with either, or disagree. My original was just a turn of phrase stating that the reason could have been the inverse, considering the Google search dominance before iPhone existed.

I also stated that the title of an article should reflect the content of the article.
The title of the article and the content doesn’t reflect what was actually written in the wall street journal that they refers to.
 
I wouldn't go that far ( 'zero' ) .

"... And as bad, Apple was using Microsoft to “bid up the price” it receives from Google to be the default search engine on the iPhone. “Do you think Google would continue to pay Apple if there was no search competition?” he asked rhetorically. “Why would they do that?” ... "


Fact is that Apple is profiting to a hefty sum with this arrangement too ; not just Google. Those two swapping money between themselves leaves Microsoft enough 'crumbs' to be used in contexts like this to say there is some competition, but not enough free revenue flow to do much. ( well besides getting innovative and doing 'more' with less capital costs. Like smarter search results as opposed to composed 'fiction writer' results. )

Apple bidding up the price only makes Google work to suck more money out of the system to pay Apple off. Apple claims they are 'big privacy' but take all that money that leverages it. By bidding the price 'sky high' Apple puts Microsoft into a context where they can't really do both ( pay Apple's prices and also pay to make the search result infrastructure significantly better. )
Again Apple using Microsoft to get a sweater deal from Google is completely irrelevant and not a criticism, but used to make the argument Google wouldn’t do that unless they tried to keep out competition.

Because of these default agreements, “you get up in the morning, you brush your teeth, and you search on Google,” Nadella said. “With that level of habit forming, the only way to change is by changing defaults.”
Nadella said Microsoft is trapped in a “vicious cycle” where Google uses its roughly 90% market share to continually improve its search results and bolster its bottom line, which in turn further reinforces its monopoly. The notion that there is real choice in the search engine market is “bogus,” Nadella said.
The government has argued Google used the distribution agreements with Apple and other phone companies to limit competition, depriving users of choice. Google has said it makes the best search engine and wins the contracts in a competitive process.
And from your own article
But Google also abuses its search dominance, Nadella said, by engaging in multi-billion deals with Apple and other companies to ensure that its search engine is the default in all smartphones and web browsers. Which, when you think about it, is the entire world. The Internet, he said, was now “the Google web.”

And as bad, Apple was using Microsoft to “bid up the price” it receives from Google to be the default search engine on the iPhone. “Do you think Google would continue to pay Apple if there was no search competition?” he asked rhetorically. “Why would they do that?”
 
Nah I’m sorry but I call BS on that
Google has been an integral part of everyone’s internet diet way into the mid 2000’s
 
I don’t know if you people missed reading the content or just read the headline.

Apple isn’t accused of anything, google is the accused

And Microsoft CEO is just a witness called to the stand in the United States v. Google LLC is an ongoing federal antitrust case brought by the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) against Google LLC on October 20, 2020. The suit alleges that Google has violated the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 through anti-competitive behavior in the search engine and search advertising markets.
He isn't talking about Apple. He's talking about how Microsoft themselves help put Google in the position they're in, so they can't really bitch that Apple does business with Google.
 
But they would be OK with Apple making Bing the default browser? Why would that be any more or less fair? By definition, the default browser would have a significant advantage over others. They seem to be mad that they were not selected. That doesn't make the decision illegal — just unfavorable to the non-selected company.
 
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But they would be OK with Apple making Bing the default browser? Why would that be any more or less fair? By definition, the default browser would have a significant advantage over others. They seem to be mad that they were not selected. That doesn't make the decision illegal — just unfavorable to the non-selected company.
What would be fair is not setting a default search engine.
 
Then the outcome should be similar, though if much has changed since 1990s, should the outcome be identical?

While some of the players, platforms, etc. may have changed, "dominance" and "anticompetitive behavior" issues largely remain the foundation on which antitrust laws exist. Time will tell how all of these issues play out in today's environment.
 
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What would be fair is not setting a default search engine.
And force EVERY person to select a default browser manually? Where would that stop, then? Phone setup would take hours and be extremely difficult. When your goal is to create an easy-to-use device, this creates harm far greater than the harm claimed by Microsoft. If you have a superior product, users will go and change that setting, as they can today.
 
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Apple isn’t accused of anything, google is the accused

Google is the one currently on trial here but the alleged illegal agreement in question involved both Google and Apple. Agreements that help a dominant company maintain or increase its dominance can, depending on the circumstances, be an antitrust violation.
 
But they would be OK with Apple making Bing the default browser? Why would that be any more or less fair? By definition, the default browser would have a significant advantage over others. They seem to be mad that they were not selected. That doesn't make the decision illegal — just unfavorable to the non-selected company.

It would be less of an issue because Bing doesn't have a dominant position in search like Google. The concern here is that the agreement is unfairly being used to help Google maintain or increase its market power, dominance, control, etc. in search.
 
And force EVERY person to select a default browser manually? Where would that stop, then? Phone setup would take hours and be extremely difficult. When your goal is to create an easy-to-use device, this creates harm far greater than the harm claimed by Microsoft. If you have a superior product, users will go and change that setting, as they can today.
Yes, the fairest thing is often not the easiest thing, but there is nothing particularly difficult or time consuming about selecting Google, Bing, Do it Later, etc. from a list of search engines either at phone setup or the first time you launch Safari. If Google is superior then selecting it from the list will be easy.

Doesn't matter, EU will probably regulate no default search engine so Apple will have to comply.
 
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Aren't they talking about the negative effects of Apple's partnership with Google?
Nope, they are talking about the negative effects of Google engaging in antitrust practices through exclusivity contracts
Google is the one currently on trial here but the alleged illegal agreement in question involved both Google and Apple. Agreements that help a dominant company maintain or increase its dominance can, depending on the circumstances, be an antitrust violation.
And this agreement is targeted as an antitrust violation by Google. Apple is still not accused of any wrongdoing. Microsoft even acknowledged Apple tried to get as much as possible from it. But the problem is Google even entertained such a contract.

If Apple honestly thinks Google is the best option, why would google then need to pay Apple to keep it that way?
 
Is he really blaming Apple? Because I'd be blaming Android - e.g my Android tablet has a Google search widget that can't be removed from the home screen.

I've used a combo of Bing and DDG ever since Google started making me fill in Captchas to use their search engine. I suspect they think I'm a bot because I was quickly ignoring all the results with crossed out keywords (missing: important search terms).

(Can't read WSJ, paywall)
 
Is he really blaming Apple? Because I'd be blaming Android - e.g my Android tablet has a Google search widget that can't be removed from the home screen.

I've used a combo of Bing and DDG ever since Google started making me fill in Captchas to use their search engine. I suspect they think I'm a bot because I was quickly ignoring all the results with crossed out keywords (missing: important search terms).

(Can't read WSJ, paywall)
Here you go
 
One of the first changes I do on the device is change the default search from G👀gle to DuckDuckGo.

I consider Bing to just being almost as bad a goople for data collection on the user.
 
And this agreement is targeted as an antitrust violation by Google. Apple is still not accused of any wrongdoing. Microsoft even acknowledged Apple tried to get as much as possible from it. But the problem is Google even entertained such a contract.

If Apple honestly thinks Google is the best option, why would google then need to pay Apple to keep it that way?

Apple may not be accused of any wrong doing in this particular trial but Apple is still part of an allegedly illegal agreement. Google is rightfully the focus here but it's not a one-sided situation. It can also be illegal for a company dominant in one market (like Apple) to enter into an agreement that helps another company (like Google) maintain or increase its dominance in another market.



It’s not the apple-Google partnership.

It’s Google contracts with x number of private companies and Apple is just one in the list of hundreds if not thousands that Google have antitrust issues with

Thousands? I don’t think the issue is that expansive. The concern here is really about the combination of Google's search dominance and Apple's browser dominance* (especially on mobile) and how the default search agreement is allegedly being used to unfairly (illegally) allow Google to maintain or increase its market power, dominance, control, etc. in search.

*In the U.S., Safari has the largest share of the mobile browser market and the second largest overall browser share behind Chrome. This according to Statcounter data.
 
Yes, the fairest thing is often not the easiest thing, but there is nothing particularly difficult or time consuming about selecting Google, Bing, Do it Later, etc. from a list of search engines either at phone setup or the first time you launch Safari. If Google is superior then selecting it from the list will be easy.

Doesn't matter, EU will probably regulate no default search engine so Apple will have to comply.
My point is where are the limitations of that argument? Yes, doing it just for Bing isn't hard, but then you can easily extend that to browsers, email clients, video players, audio players, etc. Having an iPhone that has Safari installed by default makes it harder for other browsers. Now you ask people to have to download and install a browser on their own because you don't want to favor one. The same can be said for Mail, Message, Music, etc.

Apple's business model (for better or for worse) is about a supported and tightly integrated ecosystem. The point of that is to ensure people have a smooth user experience. I am NOT interested in replicating Android-level craziness just to satisfy some argument around fairness. Apple provides ways of customizing outside their default user experience. That, to me, is fairness.
 
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My point is where are the limitations of that argument? Yes, doing it just for Bing isn't hard, but then you can easily extend that to browsers, email clients, video players, audio players, etc. Having an iPhone that has Safari installed by default makes it harder for other browsers. Now you ask people to have to download and install a browser on their own because you don't want to favor one. The same can be said for Mail, Message, Music, etc.

Apple's business model (for better or for worse) is about a supported and tightly integrated ecosystem. The point of that is to ensure people have a smooth user experience. I am NOT interested in replicating Android-level craziness just to satisfy some argument around fairness. Apple provides ways of customizing outside their default user experience. That, to me, is fairness.
The slippery slope has been proven to be a logical fallacy. There is a big difference between the default search engine and whether Safari should be included with the OS.
 
It’s not the apple-Google partnership.

Pragmatically it is a partnership. Both Apple and Google get paid by selling out the userbase with this contract. Apple is getting paid here with a % of the ad money raised. Apple is taking a piece of the action.

Are they co-equal partners? no. Is it a 50-50 percentage split? no. but they are both mixed up in the revenue stream here. Pretty good chance here that as the number of apple users under the contract went up , Apple's pay went up also. That amounts to Apple taking their 'cut'.
 
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