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I'm with NervousFish2 NIMBYism - Not in my back yard is rampant in Ireland and it's supported by a Planning system in Ireland that is not only corrupt but not fit for the purpose you might think it was designed to fulfil.

One person can easily object to any development on the most spurious of grounds and bring it to a halt, these objectiond are then easily backed by very vague legislation and official objections that are almost impossible to audit or appeal easily without more money. People object simply to cause a neighbour hardship because their dog pissed on their lawn on day. Real grudge match stuff and the planning system allows it too easily in the meantime there has been decades of planning corruption/bribes and only one person went to prison when in fact the whole regime was corrupt costing billion in investigation sees (Flood Tribunal). To this day it has not been politically reformed.

Irelands native hardwoods forest were cut down hundreds of years ago with a original coverage of about 94% of the land, the British Empire hoovered up this resource as it colonised the island over this centres build their Great estate houses but more importantly the great fleet of Sail Ships which made the British Empire a global powerhouse. It's just a product of history spanning 800 or so years.

No point in trying to use this as a story to beat Apple with, the Irish Government will bend hand over fist for it's FDI Corporations. So much they get a better deal than the Irish citizen. Ireland is pretty much the Cayman islands of the EU. SO this will get through somehow.

Really, the planning system in Ireland is regressive and run in the main by faceless bureaucrats who would give former USSR apparchiks a run for their state rationed money.

Also much of this modern forestry planted but the State was fast growing non-native ever green trees destined to be harvested for wood within a couple of decades. The State set up this forestry company long time ago. The great irony is this State mandated planting programs damaged the native soil so much and wildlife that are currently being removed and not replanted because of the destruction to the environment. Leaving some very barren landscapes. This is very visible in the mountains of South Dublin, North Co. Wicklow.

All in all, Irish planning is the worst kind of backward thinking supporting the most parochial of mindsets. For example. In the Capital, Dublin City, there is an arbitrary 28m limit on the height of buildings. Yet right now there is not enough accommodation to meet the demand for individuals and families, that it becoming a national crisis. Another successful failure of planning policy in office Ireland.
 
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Over a year after announcing its plan to spend $2 billion on new data centers in Ireland and Denmark, Apple is now defending its decision for the former location amidst rising concern that its state-of-the-art facilities will have negative effects on local animal populations, and could lead to potential flooding concerns on a neighboring golf course (via Business Insider).

Irish planning body An Bord Pleanála managed to temporarily halt construction of the Ireland-based data center thanks to these concerns, which were brought to it by a number of individuals and organizations. Its biggest question was asking why Apple chose the middle of Derrydonnell forest in Galway County, Ireland as its planned site for the server farm, given that there are other places in Ireland designated specifically for data center construction.

apple_nc_data_center_solar.jpg

Solar panels at Apple's data center in Maiden, North Carolina

Apple's senior director of global data center services, Robert Sharpe, explained the vital nature of the European data centers as part of Apple's continued expansion and support for its various services like the App Store, Apple Music, Apple Pay and iCloud. Sharpe said that Apple must pursue this phased development (the Derrydonnell Forest center would be constructed over 10-15 years) to continue to accommodate for more smartphones, more services, and more users expecting quality experiences out of both.
During the hearing, Sharpe also addressed the environmental concerns raised by locals of the county, claiming that there would be both limited visual pollution to the area thanks to the thickness of the forestry, and that Apple would replenish any wildlife it removed during construction.
The site in Ireland is planned to consist of eight total buildings each housing thousands of servers for Apple's various online services. The company's original planning application -- which has now been halted by An Bord Pleanála -- is for just one of the eight buildings, so it will have to reapply for each future planned expansion over the next estimated 10-15 years. There was no word yet on the outcome of the hearing in Ireland.

Sharpe address the various concerns presented to Apple -- including flooding issues and water drainage plans -- in his full opening statement.

Article Link: Apple Defends 15-Year Development Plan for Irish Data Center Amidst Environmental Concerns
[doublepost=1464388640][/doublepost]Having cycled thru all of Ireland one quickly gets the view Ireland is very very short of forests. So I find it iindefenceable that Apple is chopping forest down. BAD IDEA APPLE
 
Yea it's all gone. Hundreds of years ago. The only trace of the hardwood forestry are the bogs. Here is the forestry company now but I think planting started back in the 60's http://www.coillte.ie/aboutcoillte/about_coillte/

Ireland (Republic) population is tiny, circa 4.6 million and this location is rural and low density.

Also Ireland has been destroyed with too many golf clubs. Even Donald Trump has one. Perhaps Apple should just buy out the golf club next door and let that be that (that might be the plan). Seriously, Golf clubs have destroyed more of the natural environment that anything I can think of, the country is over run with golf clubs and yet they get to build them anywhere and everywhere.

This might be the location as there is a glob club beside some rather ugly looking farmed forestry, none of that is native or natural forest. Also in these types of forestry you don't come across much wildlife and they are not a public park or amenity by any stretch of imagination.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/At...f7bddfdb8274efb!8m2!3d53.2828719!4d-8.8456774

No problem having a motorway there with a small bit of forestry. You'll see more dead foxes and badgers on motorways because of policy, i.e. the road authority seem not to impose requirements to build under pass tunnels for native wildlife My guess is because most of the country is farmed and farmers hate foxes and badgers and anything that isn't a cow or sheep making money so they don't care.
 
Nope. Not even close. Ireland has at least 15 data centers, including centers for MS, Google, Amazon, and fairly soon Facebook. So the infrastructure is there, and that infrastructure can support a large data center. Multiple larger ones actually. Apple has their reasons for wanting to build where they want to build. Lack of infrastructure in the designated areas for data centers is not one of those reasons.

You think the current power and water infrastructure in the forest is better than what they have in place for that "old section" of town?

So that’s no.

You know, when Katrina hit Louisiana only one cell provider was on the air after 2 hours. They had a completely different approach to switch location, battery backup, generator backup, and were leaders in fiber backhaul. No one outside industry experts actually knew that prior to Katrina, but it existed. To be fair, they did not have a plan for using boats to get fuel to generators, so after 8 - 12 hours (depending on the site & switch node) they too went down.

For obvious reasons, they did not start an advertising campaign to point out these facts due to the loss of life and the almost certain public backlash that would have followed. Why do I point this out?

I think we can all take a breath here and understand that this is about the 2,388th time Apple has done something that seems inexplicable on the surface. But let's wait and see. Despite the odd bump in the road, they still have a pretty good track record for pleasantly surprising folks.

If - God forbid - a situation were to occur that took down data centers, I would wager a fair amount it won't be theirs or that theirs will go down last.
 
You know, when Katrina hit Louisiana only one cell provider was on the air after 2 hours. They had a completely different approach to switch location, battery backup, generator backup, and were leaders in fiber backhaul. No one outside industry experts actually knew that prior to Katrina, but it existed. To be fair, they did not have a plan for using boats to get fuel to generators, so after 8 - 12 hours (depending on the site & switch node) they too went down.

For obvious reasons, they did not start an advertising campaign to point out these facts due to the loss of life and the almost certain public backlash that would have followed. Why do I point this out?

I think we can all take a breath here and understand that this is about the 2,388th time Apple has done something that seems inexplicable on the surface. But let's wait and see. Despite the odd bump in the road, they still have a pretty good track record for pleasantly surprising folks.

If - God forbid - a situation were to occur that took down data centers, I would wager a fair amount it won't be theirs or that theirs will go down last.
I'm sorry but Apple didn't choose their site for any reason close to your impossible scenario. They just didn't. It literally makes no sense whatsoever. Any company with an eye towards disaster mitigation... nope. Not gonna do it. Not gonna lend credence to anything in that word salad you typed. None of us know Apple's motivation for their site choice. I said as much in my original quote. All of us know it has nothing to do with anything you wrote. You'd have a much greater chance of being right by simply stating they wanted their center to be private and separate from the others. You've gone from lack of infrastructure to disaster mitigation. What's next?o_O
 
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I'm sorry but Apple didn't choose their site for any reason close to your impossible scenario. They just didn't. It literally makes no sense whatsoever. Any company with an eye towards disaster mitigation... nope. Not gonna do it. Not gonna lend credence to anything in that word salad you typed. None of us know Apple's motivation for their site choice. I said as much in my original quote. All of us know it has nothing to do with anything you wrote. You'd have a much greater chance of being right by simply stating they wanted their center to be private and separate from the others. You've gone from lack of infrastructure to disaster mitigation. What's next?o_O

So your existence in this topic is what exactly? To see who can say "nope, not, no" the most? The fact is you don't know any better than anyone else. And, unlike me, you don't seem to have any experience in disaster recovery, threat mitigation, or backup power systems.

Yes, I could have said some vanilla bullcrap about "... they wanted their center to be private and separate from the others." Instead, I gave you an educated guess why they might want that, among other things. As well, I pointed out that we should just wait and see, rather than attack a position I didn't like.

Now, go hump someone elses leg.
 
So your existence in this topic is what exactly? To see who can say "nope, not, no" the most? The fact is you don't know any better than anyone else. And, unlike me, you don't seem to have any experience in disaster recovery, threat mitigation, or backup power systems.

Yes, I could have said some vanilla bullcrap about "... they wanted their center to be private and separate from the others." Instead, I gave you an educated guess why they might want that, among other things. As well, I pointed out that we should just wait and see, rather than attack a position I didn't like.

Now, go hump someone elses leg.
Educated guess. Tee hee. Educated guesses tend to be based on facts related to situation. Taking all the known facts about Apple's proposed data center and coming up with the plot from a B level disaster movie doesn't qualify as an educated guess. You'd have been much better going vanilla or just, i don't know, waiting and seeing.

Me hump a leg? It's actually more plausible than your idea about the data center. :D
 
They did clear out a large tract of forest in NC when they built their data center there as well. It seems a bit at odds to promote the environmental benefits of putting in solar panels by clear cutting a forest to install them.
 
And the economy may benefit, too.

The local economy might.
Apple paying the full 12.5% corporation tax would be more fitting of them.

Looks like they are more concerned about wildlife than people-life.

HOLLYHILL RESIDENTS OBJECT TO APPLE’S EXPANSION PLAN
THURSDAY, MARCH 10, 2016
http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/hollyhill-residents-object-apples-expansion-plan/1929785/

APPLE EXPANSION DELAYED BY MONTHS
FRIDAY, APRIL 29, 2016
http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/apple-expansion-delayed-months/2036420/
 
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I am impressed Apple is planning 15 years ahead. Backward wise, thats before they brought out the first iPod
 
Apple should use sites that are already dedicated for the use they want it for. It's hardly faire on the wildlife to just kill them and churn up all the homes and supporting habitats in the area for the wildlife. If their are sites that already have reduced wildlife.
Hmm seems to me that Apple's money has bought them what the want. In this instance they should be ashamed to use the 'environment' for marketing.
 
It's important to factor in that it is highly likely that no matter where Apple might have chosen to build this facility in Ireland, there would surely be some objection of a very local nature stopping it in it's tracks.
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Apple should use sites that are already dedicated for the use they want it for. It's hardly faire on the wildlife to just kill them and churn up all the homes and supporting habitats in the area for the wildlife. If their are sites that already have reduced wildlife.
Hmm seems to me that Apple's money has bought them what the want. In this instance they should be ashamed to use the 'environment' for marketing.

It's not a natural forest and you don't really find much wildlife in a farmed forest, you do realise they are cut down every so often regardless of the "wildlife" of which in Ireland is nothing like what you find in North America or Asia. There are no dangerous animals. Nothing poisonous. No bears. No big cats. No Elephants. No snakes. No deadly insects. From the best of my knowledge these are commercial trees which as I have already pointed out have done more harm to Ireland environment than good.

The real destruction of native wildlife happened as the English colonised Ireland in earnest. Introducing non native animals and also cutting down all the natural hardwood forests. Such is the way of things.

If you read the article it's most likely the Golf course owners kicking up more of a fuss. The wildlife angle is an easy focus to make some big story.
 
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US readers are probably not aware, but the reason Apple operate in Ireland is to avoid paying tax. They are amongst that class of corporations (including Amazon, Starbucks, Google, etc.) who benefit financially from societies that provide educated employees who tolerate working for minimum wage, customers with enough disposable income to spend on their gadgets, and enforcement of the rule of law, but feel more comfortable leaving the running cost of those societies to others. In Ireland, sadly, those costs are borne by the Irish themselves (or rather, their children) via loans taken out from the IMF. You might consider asking Siri about it.
 
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US readers are probably not aware, but the reason Apple operate in Ireland is to avoid paying tax. They are amongst that class of corporations (including Amazon, Starbucks, Google, etc.) who benefit financially from societies that provide educated employees who tolerate working for minimum wage, customers with enough disposable income to spend on their gadgets, and enforcement of the rule of law, but feel more comfortable leaving the running cost of those societies to others. In Ireland, sadly, those costs are borne by the Irish themselves (or rather, their children) via loans taken out from the IMF. You might consider asking Siri about it.

And do we blame Apple for that or Ireland's government?
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I am impressed Apple is planning 15 years ahead. Backward wise, thats before they brought out the first iPod
I'd imagine they're "planning ahead" by fifteen years because they don't really have any intention of doing it. It'll just be a condition of basing themselves in Ireland which they do for tax purposes.
 
And do we blame Apple for that or Ireland's government?

You can blame the Irish government for not standing up for the Irish people and instead, bending their knee to the European technocrats (who only wanted to protect the German and French banking system after all) and FDI companies.

  1. Do you accept corporations not paying the actual countries corporate tax rate?
  2. Do you accept dodgy backroom deals made by previous governments to the detriment of the people?
  3. Do you accept profiteering, homelessness, overcrowded schools and terrible healthcare systems?
  4. Do you accept that some of those things could be eliminated or alleviated if companies paid what is actually owed to the state?
  5. Do you accept that the status quo is always right and that dissenters who question and point out observations are to be derided?

At this very moment - all the above can apply to most western countries.
 
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