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Apple Denied Trademark for Multi-Touch

It blows my mind that they would not have been more specific and gone with gestures like pinch to zoom.

I bet the developers over at Google are throwing a party right now.
 
wikus said:
There actually were devices that used multitouch long before 2007. Also, apple did NOT invent multitouch.

I've noticed an ongoing trend in the mac community and its that apple is responsible for all inventions and they are always the first to do something.... factually not the case.
Click to expand...

This denial was not for a "patent". It was for a trademark term or word.

Apple has been going through litigation with the trademark office early 2007 . Long before the word was in general use.

Had Apple not come out with the iPhone with multi-touch in 2007 the "terminology " would not be in " general use " today.

The trademark office was wrong.
 
The trademark attorney pointed out that the term "multitouch" has taken on generic meaning, being used by a wide variety of publications to describe the touchscreen technology on Android phones, tablets, and notebooks.
Click to expand...

Only problem is they applied for the trademark before there were any Android phones, tablets, and notebooks. You'd think they would consider that in their decision.

That being said, I agree with the decision. If you don't call a display that is capable of receiving multiple inputs from multiple fingers at once "multitouch," what do you call it? "Multifinger" sounds dirty. :rolleyes:
 
Keep in mind when apple trademarked this, there was no android, or multi touch phones for that matter. the fact it's a generic term NOW shoudln't preclude apples right to the patent for innovating the technology. Before the iphone, smart phones were looking for most compact ways to put key boards in them, and touch screens all used sylus. Times changed with the conception of the iphone and i think apple deserved this patent. that said, i also know apple would have abused it if they had gotten it. Which is the real reason it was denied. the other stuff is just used as an excuse so they don't have to flat out say as much, even know the patent office knows dang well all that stuff they said was irrelevent back in 2007.
 
Edit: In my post I mistakenly used "patent" instead of "Trademark" which is what this story is about. However, my point applies to both. You don't want something that is core to your business to be held by someone else. And since there is no way to make sure "no one holds it", your only option is to hang onto it yourself.

aohus said:
still, the fact that Apple went as far as to try to trademark 'multitouch' is pathetic.

after innovation, Apple's second priority is clearly lawyers, the best lawyers.
Click to expand...

Sadly, it's not pathetic. Apple has to at least try, because if the patent office DOES seem it patent-able, Apple wants to hold that patent. It would be more pathetic if they didn't try, and the patent were acquired by someone that wanted to see the "multitouch" king take a tumble.

The only way to know if its patent-able, is to try and patent it. That's what's pathetic.

If I ran a tech business, I'd probably try and patent every damn little insignificant thing just so that I knew no one else could get a patent on it and rip the middle of my platform to shreds.
 
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wikus said:
There actually were devices that used multitouch long before 2007. Also, apple did NOT invent multitouch.

I've noticed an ongoing trend in the mac community and its that apple is responsible for all inventions and they are always the first to do something.... factually not the case.
Click to expand...

I think we place a greater emphasis on when Apple is actually the first to do something meaningful with an idea.

Yes, there was a tablet market before but it was pathetic and nearly dead before Apple got into it. If the tablet market pre-2010 (and pre-2007) actually matters at this point it does so in the context of history and perhaps some interesting trivia (in terms of who came up with what idea, that eventually got wasted by poor implementation.) Beyond that, be happy that Apple changed the tablet game and actually made it matter (an understatement, since Apple did much more than that, having put it at the forefront of computing moving forward.)

So in terms of actual viability (which is rather important), Apple was indeed the first in terms of multi-touch, tablets, smartphones, etc. Tech tends to mean so much more and reach its true potential under Apple. This phenomenon is a salient feature of the industry today, like it or not.
 
Earendil said:
Sadly, it's not pathetic. Apple has to at least try, because if the patent office DOES seem it patent-able, Apple wants to hold that patent. It would be more pathetic if they didn't try, and the patent were acquired by someone that wanted to see the "multitouch" king take a tumble.

The only way to know if its patent-able, is to try and patent it. That's what's pathetic.

If I ran a tech business, I'd probably try and patent every damn little insignificant thing just so that I knew no one else could get a patent on it and rip the middle of my platform to shreds.
Click to expand...

Once again. This was for a " trademark term" NOT a patent.
 
wikus said:
There actually were devices that used multitouch long before 2007. Also, apple did NOT invent multitouch.

I've noticed an ongoing trend in the mac community and its that apple is responsible for all inventions and they are always the first to do something.... factually not the case.
Click to expand...

Please list some of these devices, and/or cite examples. Otherwise your argument is null and void. I can't recall any specific device before the original iPhone that was using multi touch. No one pinched to zoom, or double tapped to zoom until Apple came along. It's only so commonplace now because everyone else is ripping on Apples idea. BlackBerry, Palm OS, and Windows Mobile were the smartphones of yesteryear, and none of them had any multi touch.
 
Peace's post bears repeating people. This is a denial of a trademark, not a patent.

Peace said:
This denial was not for a "patent". It was for a trademark term or word.

Apple has been going through litigation with the trademark office early 2007 . Long before the word was in general use.

Had Apple not come out with the iPhone with multi-touch in 2007 the "terminology " would not be in " general use " today.

The trademark office was wrong.
Click to expand...





wikus said:
I've noticed an ongoing trend in the mac community and its that apple is responsible for all inventions and they are always the first to do something.... factually not the case.
Click to expand...

That's actually ********. That's the talking point of the anti-Apple crowd used to slight Apple. Everyone knows Apple didn't invent mp3 players or smartphones or tablets, they made them better…much better.
 
The only reason the term "multi-touch" became widely used on android phones/tablets was because apple wasn't granted the patent sooner.
 
ChrisTX said:
Please list some of these devices, and/or cite examples. Otherwise your argument is null and void. I can't recall any specific device before the original iPhone that was using multi touch. No one pinched to zoom, or double tapped to zoom until Apple came along. It's only so commonplace now because everyone else is ripping on Apples idea. BlackBerry, Palm OS, and Windows Mobile were the smartphones of yesteryear, and none of them had any multi touch.
Click to expand...
It was a university project far before Apple bought it. I remember watching the demos on YouTube. Apple owns the IP now but they didn't invent it.

It was called Fingerworks. They came up with the majority of gestures we use today. Apple bought them in April 05.
 
People seem to be confusing trademarks with patents.

From the USPTO website:

Trademark: A word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination thereof, that identifies and distingusihes the source of the goods of oen party from those of others.

Patent: Limited duration property right relating to an invention.

Apple was seeking a trademark, not a patent. Whether "multi-touch" type technology existed before the iPhone existed is mostly, though not completely, irrelevant. It didn't matter if every one else used the same or similar technology, Apple was seeking the right to keep others from calling their technology "multi-touch."

I haven't read through the entire decision but clearly the patent office decided that the term multi-touch was enough of a widely used term that Apple couldn't trademark it.

In the end, it doesn't hurt Apple too badly. Since its now ruled a generic term it's not like someone can prevent Apple from using the term.

And to those who say it was stupid for Apple to try and trademark this, just stop. It made perfect sense for them to try. Worst case scenario was what just happened. Worst case secenario if they hadn't applied for the trademark was that someone else applied for it and sued Apple for infringement.
 
*LTD* said:
Apple should have applied for this well before 2007. But you can only be so prescient. The term has since achieved a level of generic use that it's too late. Hindsight is 20/20, though.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Apple's obsession with secrecy meant they couldn't make a claim for the trademark before they announced the iPhone?
 
wikus said:
I've noticed an ongoing trend in the mac community and its that apple is responsible for all inventions and they are always the first to do something.... factually not the case.
Click to expand...

Oh come on now, you seriously can't expect people to look up every little detail. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, this is much larger than the Mac community. It is much easier to spout some unsubstantiated bit of information than it is to really understand the subject. Just think, someday we will all have instant access to information where serches will be simple and quick. Oh wait...

<sigh>
 
C00rDiNaT0r said:
Was anyone using multitouch on smartphones before Apple? IIRC they all required stylus until the iPhone came out!
Click to expand...

lol i remember when i got my first iPhone back in the day everyone was like where is the stylus??? when i told them it doesnt have one everyone was like omg, how stupid is that :eek:
 
Lame, so if a technology revolutionizes the world and gets copied by everyone since then, it cannot be patented?
 
It is an obvious name for interacting with something. It wasn't popular (I hadn't heard of that term) before the iPhone, but Apple has drilled that term into everyone's heads as a way to interact with a touch screen device.

I agree with the trademark office on declining Apple this term, since it is in the consumer interest. Imagine the confusion among consumers if they get told Android phones aren't multitouch, they are phones that allow multiple types of touch to interact with.

It's just too generic now, ironically because of Apple's use of it.
 
ChrisTX said:
Please list some of these devices, and/or cite examples. Otherwise your argument is null and void. I can't recall any specific device before the original iPhone that was using multi touch. No one pinched to zoom, or double tapped to zoom until Apple came along. It's only so commonplace now because everyone else is ripping on Apples idea. BlackBerry, Palm OS, and Windows Mobile were the smartphones of yesteryear, and none of them had any multi touch.
Click to expand...

Years before the iPhone there were touch screens for computers. Someone above posted a YouTube video that was pre-iPhone showing similar gestures on a tabletop. In July 2004, the Samsung Experience opened up in New York City on Columbus Circle with a large multi-touch interactive device in front of the location and another dozen smaller ones inside. While no one may have used - at least not that I can recall - your language of "pinch to zoom" or "double tapped to zoom", those phrases were not what was trying to be trademarked.

But even with your incorrect information, you have misunderstood the reasoning behind the denial. It is not that other products are using the term "multi-touch" as a description of their product, it is that "multi-touch" is a generic descriptive term regarding how a myriad of devices - yes, many since the iPhone, but also yes, many before - are interacted with by their user.

Thus, from the foregoing, we find that “multi-touch” not only identifies the technology, but also describes how a user of the goods operates the device.
Click to expand...
 
apolloa said:
GOOD! I'm damn gad they got refused for this. It's nothing more then Apple trying to get yet another pathetic excuse to sue the crap out of people and make even more vast profits! NOTHING ELSE! Apple did NOT invent multitouch, they should NOT be allowed to trademark it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch
Click to expand...

That may very well be, but what commercial product was actually using it en masse before Apple? We're talking about just a trademark here. Rights to a name.

In this context, Apple's attempt to trademark it is perfectly understandable, as bold (and after a certain point, as doomed) as it was.
 
Blakeco123 said:
The only reason the term "multi-touch" became widely used on android phones/tablets was because apple wasn't granted the patent sooner.
Click to expand...

QuarterSwede said:
It was a university project far before Apple bought it. I remember watching the demos on YouTube. Apple owns the IP now but they didn't invent it.

It was called Fingerworks. They came up with the majority of gestures we use today. Apple bought them in April 05.
Click to expand...

apolloa said:
GOOD! I'm damn gad they got refused for this. It's nothing more then Apple trying to get yet another pathetic excuse to sue the crap out of people and make even more vast profits! NOTHING ELSE! Apple did NOT invent multitouch, they should NOT be allowed to trademark it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch
Click to expand...

people. This is your brain on drugs..

Last time . Apple had been trying to TRADEMARK the word MULTI-TOUCH since early 2007 . Apple was NOT trying to PATENT multi-touch.

OK ?
 
Peace said:
Had Apple not come out with the iPhone with multi-touch in 2007 the "terminology " would not be in " general use " today.

The trademark office was wrong.
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, Jeff Hann was using the term "multi touch" to refer to his invention, which consisted in one or two users interacting with elements displayed in a touch-sensitive screen before apple presented the iphone.
 
OllyW said:
I wonder if Apple's obsession with secrecy meant they couldn't make a claim for the trademark before they announced the iPhone?
Click to expand...

Ah, very interesting point. So it might have tipped their hand too early . . .
 
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