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I wonder what algorithm they actually are using. I suppose a trivial method might be to just transcode the song down to something extremely small, like a 1Kbps representation. At that bit rate, a song is about 7.5K bytes per minute of music.

The common guess is that they are analyzing just a few seconds of each song. Which would explain why mismatches of clean/explicit versions are so common.

Radio isn't free.

They didn't say radio is free, they said it's the same business model where money is paid out based on frequency of play.

If they sell that song...

Well, if they sell that song and their (currently pretty mediocre) matching software makes a match. Apple makes it sound like stuff in the store will be matched when the reality is it's usually 60-80% of that.

Match is a great idea, but so far the execution is poor in many ways. Hopefully they improve it, but after a few months passing with no fixes I'm not optimistic.

"paying a fee to have access to [their] own music collection."

Why would anyone want to do that? :eek:

Because it's an improvement over not having access to it. Which is the case for a huge number of people right now. Duh.

Don't you think it is much easier to first check the the song's Id TAG, if all the Data(Artist-title-time...) is there it already knows which number it is

Except that's not how matching works. People have tested it and it seems to be just analyzing the waveform and not looking at tags at all. I assume that's because otherwise people could just put fake tags in dummy files to try and get songs they don't have.
 
A step in the right direction.

However, it is very frustrating how many, many end consumers are hostile to the whole royalty situation,since Napster, it seems that the anti lobby / silicon valley, whoever- has filled everyones heads with how evil the record industry is, but truth be told, the big labels are dead anyway, and the people getting hurt now are the artists.

Let me give you a breakdown of how things generally work.

Just say a lower indi artist is signed to a small label.

The artist is advanced $5000 from the label to do a record. In exchange for the advance, the label asks to take a cut of their musical publishing, to recoup the loan. This publishing deal is really just a bank loan, the artist is paying for this themselves in the end. More on this later.

After recording costs, instruments, misc items, they have used all of $5000, and also a few thousand of their personal money. The album is released.

Now, they're selling material on Itunes and the odd CD. The band is not Coldplay, so they're not selling a huge amount of tracks. They're touring as well, and between Itunes sales and touring the band is making less than if all 5 members were instead working minimum wage jobs..but hey, thats the choice they made.

Now, royalties - this is the chance for the band it make a little money.

In the US these are collected by ASCAP and BMI.

Every time the music is played on radio and such live to air mediums, the station pays a minuscule amount the ASCAP / BMI who distribute it back to the artist and publisher, in a non profit manner, in the following way.

of say, 0.01 cents -

50% is the writers royalty. The person who wrote the music in the song gets 25% and the person that writes the lyrics gets 25%

The other 50% is the publishing royalty. As the record label loaned $5000 to the band, then the Band is taking 40% of this money and the label is taking 60% until the money is paid back, and then depending upon the contract may keep collecting these royalties for a profit.

Now this is a gross simplification, but I wanted to paint the picture for those of you who dont know much about this.

As a musician myself, I can say that for much of the music I write, the only chance I can at all make any money after covering expenses is from Royalties..writers shares and publishing shares. I am not attached to a label. Its that hard.

I think most artists would be quite happy for everyone to be downloading their material via torrents, if only they got some super tiny fraction of a cent amount every time someone plays their music, just like if it was on radio.

Now, Youtube, Google, ect make a lot of money from advertising revenue exploiting content from artists and such. This is why they fight so hard against any royalty association trying to collect these royalties for artists, it cuts into their profit margins.

Now Youtube is paying royalties, but its not more than token amount, and looking at my statements, doesn't seem to be very accurate regarding the amount of plays the material actually receives.

This from Apple, im glad it makes the front page of Macrumors, and Im glad apple is making another baby step in the right direction.

So regarding how little artists (and labels) make from their music, and how much big business like Google and Apple make from their music, it is fair that the artist take a little more money from those Giants.

But they fight it, and they have the average consumer fighting it too, making you think you're sticking it to the man (labels) when you're really In the mans pocket and you're sticking it to the people of are writing the music you love.

Thanks for your time.
 
Paying $25 to get back, at most, 70% of your own pie makes sense in what universe?

It depends on how the playcount is pooled.

For instance, if I pay $25, and play Artist A 90 times. Another user pays $25, and plays Artist B 10 times. Does Artist A receive $45 and Artist B $5? If so, it could make sense to boost your playcount. Even in that simplistic example, the label makes back more than it invested.

Also, how securely are the playcounts submitted? Would it be possible to send fake playcounts from a fake 'client' to boost your numbers?
 
I like the part about "industry execs are thrilled with the arrangement". They get 88% and the poor artist gets 12% OF COURSE they are thrilled with this.

That is a completely inaccurate statement. The 88% that goes to record labels are 'Mechanical Rights'. These rights relate to the recorded music. This is therefore paid to the label but then proportionately distributed according to individual agreements and rights holders of the recorded music for each recording. This 88% will cover the label, producer royalties and mechanical rights to the artist where applicable amongst others. The other 12% is publishing which is strictly for songwriters.
 
So regarding how little artists (and labels) make from their music, and how much big business like Google and Apple make from their music, it is fair that the artist take a little m

Interesting post, thanks!

Should Indie artists sign for 'labels' like CDBaby, that only take a minimal cut? Sure, they can't provide the promotion and exposure a big label can, but if an artist wants those, they have to pay for them. (Or at least, there need to be enough artists willing to threaten to move to someone like CDBaby, to get the major labels to soften their position).
 
Dear artist... you have earned 1.6 cents this quarter. ;) iTunes Match working for you!

Don't most artists sign a fixed cost contract anyway, if not fixed cost + royalties?
 
It depends on how the playcount is pooled.

For instance, if I pay $25, and play Artist A 90 times. Another user pays $25, and plays Artist B 10 times. Does Artist A receive $45 and Artist B $5? If so, it could make sense to boost your playcount. Even in that simplistic example, the label makes back more than it invested.
"If I pay..."
"Another user pays..."

Of course the labels are ahead when they receive payments that were funded by people other than themselves. But that is different than what you originally wrote (emphasis added):
Originally Posted by whooleytoo
Surely there's a way to abuse this system? Upload songs by your own artists, then play them loads of times across many, many devices & accounts? You'd end up getting back a larger share of the iTunes Match "pie" than you deserve.
The only way to do that is if you have and pay for a Match account yourself. There is no way you can make more money back than the $25 you paid for it. The idea is kinda ludicrous really.




Michael
 
Interesting post, thanks!

Should Indie artists sign for 'labels' like CDBaby, that only take a minimal cut? Sure, they can't provide the promotion and exposure a big label can, but if an artist wants those, they have to pay for them. (Or at least, there need to be enough artists willing to threaten to move to someone like CDBaby, to get the major labels to soften their position).

Good thought. Yeah, Cdbaby and Tunecore are the new model, pretty much allowing the artist to self publish, so they take more money from physical sales, but as you said, they have to do everything themselves. Majors are dieing, self releasing is pretty much the future Imo, but even then, an artist could be making a tiny amount of money via Tunecore and such digital distribution while 90% of their fan base uses torrents and listens on youtube who make more money from advertising.

I think a better royalty system besides raw track sales would be great. So everyone can listen on Youtube for free, and Artists take more off Youtube's profits, so they could potentially even make a living off writing music, heh
 
There is no way you can make more money back than the $25 you paid for it.

Is there?

As pointed out earlier, it seems like it depends if each $25 is divided up separately or it's one big pool.

If the latter and total money is divided by total play count, enough plays could end up with higher than $25. But it doesn't seem like we know that specifically how it works.

I don't know if artists would do this, but knowing this I could see fans specifically streaming the bands they like better to get them a bigger cut of the pie.
 
So wait a minute...

If they can't figure out what a given song (say "She Came in Through the Bathroom Window") is to match it...how do they know what it is to pay a royalty on it when that track is uploaded?

Either they can tell what a user's track is or not, this seems fishy, as if they either are paying royalties on their best guess (and wrong in many cases) or they have the threshold for matching set really low and there are many cases where they really do know what track it is but are being unnecessarily picky and not matching.
I do not think they are paying out for tracks that are not identified at all. I believe what was meant by that was for tracks that are identified but without an agreement for iTunes Match. I don't see why, just because they don't have the track available for Match, that they still can't match for compensation reasons. It is the wording of "unmatched" that implies "oh no we don't know what it is" when in fact they very well might know.

As for not always getting it correct; well that needs work. But there also may be other unknown reasons for songs not matching (as in, returning as "unmatched" in iTunes). Perhaps the labels can disallow a specific track, for example. It's already apparent that there can be separate arrangements for iTunes music store purchases and Match. Since there are indeed songs that will Match but that you cannot purchase in iTunes, the opposite may also be true. Unfortunately that might mean some problems with Match are not technical but rather legal and could take longer to fix--if fixable at all.





Michael
 
A step in the right direction.

Yes, indeed. I do think that the whole model of making money has already shifted for labels and artists.

As has been stated before, the piece of the pie that eventually finds its way back to the artist is miniscule. I think that it is an ingenious method of carving a few more crumbs out of the (pirated) pie. Obviously the artist take home really doesn't change much... But:

How has the model shifted? Licensing and touring. A young artist will be better off taking advantage of pirate radio, rather than fighting it. This is not news. Exposure is key - With content being free. Remember when DangerMouse released the David Lynch collaboration for free? A blank CD-R was enclosed with the book. Radiohead pay what you will (I seem to remember that they actually made more money this way than if they would have gone through the traditional label deal??)

Pampelmouse or whatever they are called - the cute youtube couple - figured it out a few years ago. No label. Just a youtube channel and a basement home studio. They worked hard making there little home videos of licenced well-known covers. Smart. They made a decent living doing this while continuing to gain exposure -- all the while offering free content (and more and more of their own material). Boom! Car commercial! Licensing etc.

All this to say... iTunes Match is not a bad thing. It is an interesting beginning of a new kind of revenue stream -- one that does not take advantage of the consumer -- but one that still does not really reward the artist to any substantial degree. But it is just a beginning.

Long story even longer... I still prefer google music because I can (and do) listen to my entire collection in my car, on my iPhone, without downloading a single song. Zero connection issues. THAT is what iTunes Match should have been and hopefully will be... soon.
 
Is there?

As pointed out earlier, it seems like it depends if each $25 is divided up separately or it's one big pool.

If the latter and total money is divided by total play count, enough plays could end up with higher than $25. But it doesn't seem like we know that specifically how it works.

I don't know if artists would do this, but knowing this I could see fans specifically streaming the bands they like better to get them a bigger cut of the pie.

Definitely fans can drive it up--separate accounts. But you can't seriously think Apple is going to allow one account to pay out more than Apple received from that one account, can you? Not to mention taxes and whatever else needs to get paid.




Michael
 
Well, I pay roughly 10$/month to back up my music and pictures online. I can now downgrade (i'm being lazy) and remove my music from that backup and pay 25$ for Apple's online back-up. That's 2.08$ per month to back-up my music!
Not so thrilling if your music is stored lossless (ALAC or FLAC), since as I understand it iTunes Match only stores a 256k lossy version of your tracks.
 
Anyone know how many iTunes Match users there are? I'm curious how much money is going out in royalties. If Apple keeps 30%, and they have, say, 10 million subscribers, that's $175 million per year going out in royalties. And that's just for iTunes Match. No idea what that comes to for smaller artists, though. Still, if iTunes Match really catches on, that can come to a LOT of extra money for the music industry/artists without selling a single song. I can see why they're happy with it.
 
Great! I'm leaving Spotify for this when it comes to Sweden. It's cheaper, and it works on iPad!
 
I think most artists would be quite happy for everyone to be downloading their material via torrents, if only they got some super tiny fraction of a cent amount every time someone plays their music, just like if it was on radio.

This sums up my own thoughts. Non-commercial private consumption of music, obtained through democratized and decentralized channels such as bittorrent, should be legal. No one is making any money of your work, and the fact that they are enjoying music they might not have paid for ensures a net benefit. Commercial uses, be it on Youtube, radio etc, should be subject to profit-sharing. In other words, it's fine for the Coldplay fan in Hanoi to download their album to listen to with his friends; it's not fine for another company to use their song in a profit-making manner without paying for it.

The business model of selling cd's or virtual copies of music, which requires helicopter raids by deadly armed police commandos to enforce, is not fit for the 21st century.
 
You're suggesting that we all go make $100 million movies in our backyard then?

No, I'm suggesting people make $100G movies in their backyard, or make $100M movies with a studio, and rely on getting the money back through Cinema ticket sales. ie, rely on providing experiences that downloaded versions can't provide. Because once it's out on the net, that's it.

Can people not see that profits on DVD and CD sales is only going to decrease, and there is nothing anyone can do about it??? Can people not see that film/music industry need to change where they get their profits from because of this trend???

EDIT: Another option (that has been proven to work) is to do what sites like this do. Provide a free service, ie. upload movies and music for free on your website (either artist website or one run by record labels) and rely on advertising revenue when people go to the site to download the media. Customers get stuff for free, but artists and labels still get paid.
 
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"If I pay..."
"Another user pays..."

Of course the labels are ahead when they receive payments that were funded by people other than themselves. But that is different than what you originally wrote (emphasis added):

The only way to do that is if you have and pay for a Match account yourself. There is no way you can make more money back than the $25 you paid for it. The idea is kinda ludicrous really.

Michael

No, my posts were consistent. The first is the general case, the second post a specific example for clarification.

I don't know if/how the playcount is pooled, so I don't know if my point is valid or not.

Let me try to explain better: if a label created an iTunes Match account, and repeatedly played a song by their own artists 1,000 times and nothing else, do they get 100% (well... 70%) of the $25 they paid for the iTunes Match account? Or do those 1,000 plays go into a global playcount?

So let's say there also 3 other iTunes Match users, who play only a few songs. So there's a revenue pool of $70 ((4 x $25) - 30%). The label's artist has 1,000 plays and gets the bulk of that $70, other artists only have a handful and only get a few dollars back. The label paid $25 for one account, but because they boosted their own playcount so high, they get more back from other users' subscriptions.

If it's the latter, it could make sense to create several accounts to boost your playcounts. Even more so if Apple create an iTunes Match chart, so labels could boost their artists up to #1. (And more again, if they're devious enough to spoof playcount submissions, thus costing them little or nothing).

I hope that explains it better.
 
I'm not one to easily applaud Apple for so called revolutionary products, I think revolutionary is throw out a little too easily these days with Apple products. However, this service is really aiming to solve a problem... and at the same time making things good for consumers, record companies, and Apple.

For $25 a year, I can play any song my library from any location? When it starts eating up space on my iPhone, all I have to do is delete songs I'm not listening to. Regardless of if you're pirating music, or legally paying for it. Record Companies, Apple, and Customers all benefit from it.

Brilliant solution, imo.
 
Brilliant solution, imo.

I'd say a brilliant idea...but so far a terrible execution of that idea.

If it worked right, it would be amazing, but unfortunately they seem to have ignored all the problems found in beta and released it anyway.
 
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