Apple Developing New High-End Video Codec?

[MacRumors]

Hardmac reports that Apple may be preparing to roll-out a new high-end video codec to compete against the existing H.264 standard of which it has been a staunch proponent.

First, a transition towards better codec, dropping the efficient but CPU-consuming encoding codec H.264 for adopting Wavelet transform-type of codec which will allow even better compression rate while offering better efficiency. This type of compression was already used for the JPEG 2000 format. If we did not get confirmation yet, we can suspect that Apple will be using a format evolving or directly originating from Dirac.

The Dirac codec was initially developed by the BBC, but is notable for being royalty-free with a commitment from the developers to steer clear of infringement of any third-party patents. Dirac's performance, however, seems to leave much to be desired, and while it is still an immature standard that Apple would obviously be working to considerably enhance, it remains unclear whether it would be Apple to displace H.264 as a first-choice web standard for video compression.

The report claims that the goal would be for Apple to support delivery of up to 4K resolution video of 4096x2304, as recently embraced by YouTube. But while the report says that Apple would thus be targeting high-end applications initially, it remains unclear exactly what deployment strategy would be and whether it will even see the project through to a public release.

Due to the sketchy details and seemingly questionable nature of the rumor, we are publishing it on Page 2 for the time being for interest and discussion.

Article Link: Apple Developing New High-End Video Codec?

 

[rmwebs]

FFS....WHY?!?!?!

Why the hell cant they all sit down TOGETHER and come up with ONE definitive OPEN codec to rule them all?

Damn Apple's proprietary focus! (iDevice dock connector all over again....its just a fat USB port!)

 

[Yvan256]

FFS....WHY?!?!?!

Why the hell cant they all sit down TOGETHER and come up with ONE definitive OPEN codec to rule them all?

Damn Apple's proprietary focus! (iDevice dock connector all over again....its just a fat USB port!)

Well, the problem with H.264 is licensing. Open source software doesn't want to pay, the MPEG wants to sell licenses, etc.

On the OSS front, Theora is not good enough and WebM seems to have trouble getting support except from Firefox and Opera.

Like Theora and WebM, Dirac was good but didn't get enough support from everyone.

An advanced, free next-generation open format backed by Apple has a much better chance of succeeding H.264. Now that Apple has IC engineers, maybe they're planning to add that new video CODEC into next-generation FaceTime devices. Maybe that's why they didn't want to support WebM, they were already working on that new CODEC?

A free, open CODEC offering better video quality at lower bitrates would be welcomed by all. If Apple could also push JPEG2000 at the same time, it would be a bonus.

And the iDevice dock connector is not simply USB with a different connector, it has lots of pins for other uses.

 

[sarge]

One of the presenters at a recent Streaming Media online workshop mentioned that the license costs associated with h.264 were going to go up but he didn't offer any specifics. Found an article from Dec '09 though if anyone is interested in the status quo.

http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=65357

 

[BornAgainMac]

So H.264 will die eventually when the owners want people to pay for it. Nice.

 

[MacFly123]

The new Final Cut Studio is going to be AWESOME!!!

Get it into hardware Apple and in the new Apple TV haha! Ok maybe the new Apple TV a year or two down the road! Now we need 4K autosterioscopic 3D TVs!

 

[SeanMcg]

From what I understand, the h.264 license costs are not necessarily going to go up soon, but merely reconsidered as the initial timeframe for the current license terms runs out soon.

Given Apple's stance against BlueRay's "bag of hurt" when it comes to licensing, I wouldn't be surprised to see them create something away from the MPEG-LA and position it as successor to h.264, rather than as a competitor.

BTW - does anyone have a source for a good breakdown of the Apple Dock connector vs the proposed PDMI standard, the CEA 30-pin connector (where'd that idea come from ) for standardized device connection?

 

[Nicky G]

FFS....WHY?!?!?!

Why the hell cant they all sit down TOGETHER and come up with ONE definitive OPEN codec to rule them all?

Damn Apple's proprietary focus! (iDevice dock connector all over again....its just a fat USB port!)

That's definitely not true -- Dock Connector has pinouts for audio & video, in addition to data.

 

[rmwebs]

That's definitely not true -- Dock Connector has pinouts for audio & video, in addition to data.

All of which could have been handled by standard USB...

 

[tbrinkma]

All of which could have been handled by standard USB...

Standard USB does not provide a Line Out signal without an add-on dongle.
Nor does it provide a standard RCA video/audio signal without an add-on dongle.
Nor does it provide any of the several other pin-outs that the dock connector does. (Without an add-on dongle.)

 

[goobot]

Why does apple kill everything. I mean 99% of the things they release owns everything mobile me and atv were the only fails

 

[SpinThis!]

On the OSS front, Theora is not good enough and WebM seems to have trouble getting support except from Firefox and Opera... (snip) Like Theora and WebM, Dirac was good but didn't get enough support from everyone. An advanced, free next-generation open format backed by Apple has a much better chance of succeeding H.264.

That's what I was thinking. Like Apple did with KHTML -> WebKit, Apple could do a Dirac -> VideoKit or whatever.

Apple likes its control and it'll be damned if it lets Google or others come up with a format and have it become the "standard" for web video. Apple would much prefer to create/repurpose a format, tweak it a bit, then call it their own (eg alac, facetime, etc).

The only piece of the puzzle here that doesn't make sense is decoding dirac isn't feasible without hardware acceleration, like h.264. That was one of Apple's big concerns regarding theora: chip availability. Unless Apple wants to build a hardware decoder for dirac, it's not going to work on any current Apple iDevice. I doubt if the iPhone 4/iPad's A4 is fast enough to decode the format by itself so if this rumors does become reality, it'll be a next gen Apple device.

 

[studiomusic]

RED Apple?

Is Apple teaming with RED?
RED has gone a bit dark lately, and their RED Ray project hasn't been talked about for a LONG time... 4k all the way.
Dreaming of a RED Apple!

 

[ikir]

Standard USB does not provide a Line Out signal without an add-on dongle.
Nor does it provide a standard RCA video/audio signal without an add-on dongle.
Nor does it provide any of the several other pin-outs that the dock connector does. (Without an add-on dongle.)

Bashing Apple is standard nowdays especially on Macrumors! Don't waste your time replying, you will be marked as fanboy.

 

[puckhead193]

another codec... what about support for AVCHD? Would this new codec be less of a memory hog when transcoding into proress

 

[thedarkhorse]

another codec... what about support for AVCHD? Would this new codec be less of a memory hog when transcoding into proress

probably not much as it still has to transcode from avchd, no matter what you transcode to you are still stuck with cpu-inefficient avchd as a start point.

 

[Rocketman]

H.264 is a standard suited to mobile applications and bandwidth crippled networks and devices. H.264 is going to be with us for 1080p (full HD) and below for years to come and thankfully so.

This discussion is for 4K (4096p) and also for non-flat images such as 1080p 3D (dual frame).

The technology for solid state image capture is progressing far more rapidly than the associated hardware to process it, software and of course transmission bandwidth.

RED is an early adopter professional cinematic targeted system. But imagine if your iPhone 5 has an 8 megapixel camera and all of a sudden the solid state storage and increased internal buss speeds allows you to capture 30 fps at 8mp. What do you do with that tremendous asset?

The current professional edit systems such as Avid and Final Cut and others, allow you to edit a low resolution thumbnail to determine the edit points, then compile the final unit in full resolution to a viewable movie.

The problem being you can view a 480p movie on a 2010 iPhone or iPad or iPod just fine, but 4096p requires very much more hardware resources.

A "Powermac" G4 867 cannot even play 1080p video well, but a low end "MacBookPro" C2D can.

What is notable is if you play the recent news conference on the Apple website, they allow you to select the resolution you want to view. If you have crippled hardware or connection you are compelled to view a lower resolution version to view it reasonably at all. But if you are on Fiber or OC3 internet and have a 4K theatrical screen with 5.1 audio, why should you be prevented from viewing content in full resolution when the number of seconds it takes you to receive the digital file is about the same as the guy on crappy DSL and a G4 and the much smaller file. Or worse, a Performa and dial-up. It is all server time at that point. You are paying for the bandwith access last mile on your end.

Rocketman

 

[zedsdead]

This is very interesting news. Considering Apple's anti Blu-Ray stance, they will have a much bigger idea of the future of video.

As others mentioned, Apple has also worked closely with RED over the past few years.

Things could get very interesting. It would of course be nice if Apple actually had a video editing program that use more than two-cores....cough...Final Cut Pro...cough...

 

[wheelhot]

If this happen, I'll be really happy cause it shows that Apple still want to be in the high-end market. Kinda worried with what happening now (not that its bad or anything), I am wondering when we will see a new 27"/30" Apple Cinema Display.

I loved that FCP is widely used throughout the industry, now I wonder will there be a Aperture Pro?

 

[spydr]

Bashing Apple is standard nowdays especially on Macrumors! Don't waste your time replying, you will be marked as fanboy.

True. Cannot understand why these nincompoops waste their time and ours by posting their ignorant and hateful rants...whereas they would be lot more welcome elsewhere... or is it a bunch of trolls on someone's payroll for executing an ugly mudslinging smear campaign.

 

[mentholiptus]

Standard USB does not provide a Line Out signal without an add-on dongle.
Nor does it provide a standard RCA video/audio signal without an add-on dongle.
Nor does it provide any of the several other pin-outs that the dock connector does. (Without an add-on dongle.)

I <3 the iDevice port, but doesn't all that jazz get routed to a standard USB plug anyway?

 

[RMo]

I <3 the iDevice port, but doesn't all that jazz get routed to a standard USB plug anyway?

You're joking, right? (Whatever "routed" means, both of the things the poster explicitly mentioned significantly predate USB, and most of things he didn't probably do, too.)

 

[mbh]

I loved that FCP is widely used throughout the industry, now I wonder will there be a Aperture Pro?

Isn't Aperture already iPhoto Pro?

 

[toke lahti]

Well, the problem with H.264 is licensing.

I guess that all video compression methods are and will be patented. Otherwise it would make no sense to invest in them.
So, Dirac will have same licencing problems than others.

And, btw, h.264 already has wavelet addition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Video_Coding
And these are/will be industry standards.

So, once again, Apple has no real reason, other than its own greed, to use some proprietary codec.

 

[daneel]

I guess that all video compression methods are and will be patented. Otherwise it would make no sense to invest in them.
So, Dirac will have same licencing problems than others.

And, btw, h.264 already has wavelet addition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Video_Coding
And these are/will be industry standards.

So, once again, Apple has no real reason, other than its own greed, to use some proprietary codec.

H.264/SVC is not based on wavelet compression. The proposals based on wavelet compression were ruled out during the early standardization period. H.264/SVC is a regular block-based (layered) video codec.