CmdrLaForge said:
vlookup (and hlookup) are very powerful.... if you are curious send me a message and I will explain.
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Apple Developing Numbers?
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vlookup (and hlookup) are very powerful.... if you are curious send me a message and I will explain.
If you can use Word without getting a bleeding headache I commend you. I wouldn't use Word to write something if my life depended on it.
I do agree though, Apple needs to come up with a Word killer. Do they want their Mac users to have to put up with this horse **** for this long? They need to give us something manageable at least. Word is not manageable. Pages is manageable but we have complaints here that Pages isn't everything we want it to be. Are you hearing us Apple? Steve? This is a pleading call for help. We don't want to put up with Word any longer. You hear? We don't want to be stuck to a proprietary platform.
Hear our plea.
I do agree though, Apple needs to come up with a Word killer. Do they want their Mac users to have to put up with this horse **** for this long? They need to give us something manageable at least. Word is not manageable. Pages is manageable but we have complaints here that Pages isn't everything we want it to be. Are you hearing us Apple? Steve? This is a pleading call for help. We don't want to put up with Word any longer. You hear? We don't want to be stuck to a proprietary platform.
Hear our plea.
RapidWeaver
This is one of the best web design programs out there, and it is under forty bucks.
http://www.realmacsoftware.com/
click on rapidweaver
joemama said:
This is one of the best web design programs out there, and it is under forty bucks.
http://www.realmacsoftware.com/
click on rapidweaver
Excel is extremely useful, at everything it does. I use it in my chemistry labs for graphs and trend lines, math classes, Economics courses, and I use it for accounting at work.
I'd love to see what Apple can bring out (Excel took a bit of time to learn), but Apple would have to duplicate every function I use on Excel and make it easy to learn for me to switch.
I'd love to see what Apple can bring out (Excel took a bit of time to learn), but Apple would have to duplicate every function I use on Excel and make it easy to learn for me to switch.
bbyrdhouse
macrumors 6502
powermac666 said:
When I first started using Pages I was very disappointed because I was trying to use it like Publisher. But the more that I use Pages the more I like it. I am learning new features of the program all the time.
I am now to the point where I can live without Publisher.
I think it would really be good for Apple to include a way to import Publisher files. I have about 10-12 years of Publisher files that I would love to have the abilityt to transfer them to Pages files.
There are still some features that I wouild like to see Pages add, but overall I am liking it more and more.
And yes, I would love for Apple to introduce an Excel type program.
Rapidweaver is OK but it is hardly "one of the best". It is extremely limited as to what it can do.mixgrafix said:
It claims to be a WYSIWYG type program but it is anything but that.
If you use a Pre-designed template then it's OK but try to make changes and WHOA!
GoLive is much better.
Freeway Pro is another overpriced useless piec of software that is extremely "un-user friendly".
If Apple wants to include a drawing program in iWork, they should think about acquiring OmniGraffle. It's really an outstanding program.
iWork overpriced?!? Less than fifty quid including tax - dirt cheap
The thing about Office is that Excel is a very, very good programme,
Word is problematic - the way it keeps guessing and changing formats is awful and Powerpoint is a dog. Word and Powerpoint regularly crash with me (in OS9 and X10.3)
Keynote is so much better than Powerpoint, Pages has potential - it's just very different than Word - much more a layout program. Apple could do with having a Word like input side to Pages. The results with Pages are good though
The thing about Office is that Excel is a very, very good programme,
Word is problematic - the way it keeps guessing and changing formats is awful and Powerpoint is a dog. Word and Powerpoint regularly crash with me (in OS9 and X10.3)
Keynote is so much better than Powerpoint, Pages has potential - it's just very different than Word - much more a layout program. Apple could do with having a Word like input side to Pages. The results with Pages are good though
MongoTheGeek
macrumors 68040
rosshm said:
I know I got a license for some version of it when I got my G5. I think Apple paid omni for a world wide license. Apple should actually pay Omni just to pay Omni. 🙂
It is a nice program.
(said it before, I kept it short)
When apple perfects software from all markets, 3rd party app will mean photoshop, protools and 'itunes hacks' (maybe one or two more)
-matt
point proven, see my above post.
When apple perfects software from all markets, 3rd party app will mean photoshop, protools and 'itunes hacks' (maybe one or two more)
-matt
rosshm said:
point proven, see my above post.
"Numbers"? You'd think they could come up with a better name for it - sounds like a puzzle game for kids.
Numbers and Pages
I'm surprised by the comments on Pages. I started using it only for those things it was intended for. Then I realized that it is a nicer word processor for simple things, because I don't have all of the in-your-face MS stuff asking me if I want to make my document into a paper airplane or capricously changing things because I've got some preference set wrong somewhere. I could look through the 800 preferences but then again, I could just use Pages and not be hassled. The printed output is significantly better than Word.
Same is true for Keynote.
I'm surprised by the comments on Pages. I started using it only for those things it was intended for. Then I realized that it is a nicer word processor for simple things, because I don't have all of the in-your-face MS stuff asking me if I want to make my document into a paper airplane or capricously changing things because I've got some preference set wrong somewhere. I could look through the 800 preferences but then again, I could just use Pages and not be hassled. The printed output is significantly better than Word.
Same is true for Keynote.
pimentoLoaf
macrumors 68010
If Pages could generate exact HTML duplicates of whatever one sees when creating brochures and newsletters, and if Numbers could generate really spiffy charts above and beyond what Excel is capable of, then iWork could be repackaged & reintroduced not as an Office-killer, but a premier add-on, something that would have droves of PC-wonks switching to the Mac platform.
Orlando Furioso
macrumors 6502
JeffTL said:
I don't know about that. Microsoft Office 2004 (with Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Entourage, +) at the academic pricing of $130 is not bad. It also comes with, not one, but THREE licenses. This is great for students like me who have a couple computers at college (desktop in apt/dorm, and possibly a laptop too), in addition to having a computer back home with the folks. Breaking it down per license, each computer received a REAL suite for ~$43.
All of a sudden this price-tag does not seem so bad anymore when compared to the $49 (edu pricing) one shells out for only two apps. Although, $99 for the family pack (five, same site, licenses), is somewhat attractive.
notjustjay
macrumors 603
Orlando Furioso said:
Academic pricing is decent. But when it's not academic pricing, when you're supposed to pay the "full retail" price, that's where it gets insulting.
I don't know ANYBODY that owns a full legal copy of Office. They either bought the academic version, got a "free" or "cheap" legal license from school, got a license from work, or pirated it. The vast majority fall in the latter category.
I bought a Dell laptop a number of years ago and opted to do the right thing and bought my copy of Office XP bundled with the laptop. A few years later when I decided to sell the laptop I discovered in the fine print of my license that it was not transferable and would not reactivate on a new computer, so I was forced to sell the Office XP license with the laptop. I bought another computer and ended up buying Office XP again. This time the academic version since I was back to school at the time. I also needed Office on a computer downstairs (at the time the Academic license was still limited to 1 computer) so I bought a used copy of Office 2000.
Then in 2003 I switched to the Mac. And had to buy Office 2003 for Mac. Again.
How many freakin' times am I supposed to keep paying for the same program? No wonder everyone just pirates it.
sacear
macrumors 6502
Apple's Numbers
There was a story in the news several weeks (maybe a couple months) back about Apple buying-out a mathematical/spreadsheet program developer. So that company is probably the team that is producing the upcoming Apple spreadsheet, "Numbers."
That may have already been mentioned earlier. I don't want to read all seven of the previous pages.
There was a story in the news several weeks (maybe a couple months) back about Apple buying-out a mathematical/spreadsheet program developer. So that company is probably the team that is producing the upcoming Apple spreadsheet, "Numbers."
That may have already been mentioned earlier. I don't want to read all seven of the previous pages.
I believe that with Apple and Mac OS X, iWork has big potentials. Its a very new application, just give Apple some time, with more apps added on (ie "Numbers) Office will hopefully become obsolete. 😱 😱 😱
notjustjay
macrumors 603
JackSYi said:
We can hope 😉
Realistically, though, iWork won't make Office obsolete just like iLife didn't make Final Cut Pro or Soundtrack or Adobe Premiere or Photoshop obsolete. iLife offers a lower-cost (usually free!) simpler to use alternative which most beginning users find totally sufficient. If they need more, they buy the full-power app.
iWork is going to work the same way. Your corporate or professional environment isn't likely to switch away from Office. But the guy who fires up his first iMac will appreciate having all the software to do just about anything, FREE, out of the box.
It'll also make Windows look spartan, with no DVD authoring software, drawing package, mini-office-suite, etc.
Somewhere along the line most contributors to this thread seem to have lost the plot with iWorks, or have never bothered to use it for what it does best........producing documents. If you want a replacement for Office or it's components, don't buy iWorks, download OpenOffice for free and save your money. You can then harp on at how clunky and user un-friendly that is like its counterpart.
If, however you hate Word and/or Powerpoint, give iWorks a serious try......buy it and use it. If you are an Office 'old time', like me, both apps will be quirky, incomplete and have a few flaws, just like OS X in the early days. Now that OS X is mature it reigns supreme.
Keynote is well on its way to showing Powerpoint a clean pair of heels for presentations, which we seem to forget is just an electronic document with a few bells and whistles. Keynote, in my opinion, is so good that it is worth the asking price of iWorks. I considered 'Pages' a free app until it began to use it without my Word head screwed on.
Pages is not Word and I hope will never be anything like it. But it does do the Word thing that word does best, read and write .doc files which some versions of Word struggle with occasionally.
You really do need to take your Word head off and work with it for a while to get the best from Pages . If you are not a Word 'power user' you could find yourself pleasently surprised. It soon becomes very easy to produce great looking documents.
There are some features missing, most noticabley mail merge, which seems a big oversight. No doubt this will be addressed in future releases.The program is a little sluggish if you are quick on the keys. But this is v1 dont forget!
In my experience, I have not needed Powerpoint or Word for months. iWorks does all I need and more. As an example I am currently writing a training document with auto generated table of contents, imported images, tables, bookmarks and hyperlinks to web pages in the electronic form. The pdf print quality is excellent.
iWorks, to me, is the beginning of an excellent document productivity package for the majority.
Should it have a spreadsheet? Not on your life! Documents, spreadsheets and databases are all different animals even though the all share four legs and a tail.
If you need them bundled in the same package, buy Office. But just think how little Office has changed over the years, despite all the user grumbles. Keeping application types separate can do wonders for development and enhancements.
If, however you hate Word and/or Powerpoint, give iWorks a serious try......buy it and use it. If you are an Office 'old time', like me, both apps will be quirky, incomplete and have a few flaws, just like OS X in the early days. Now that OS X is mature it reigns supreme.
Keynote is well on its way to showing Powerpoint a clean pair of heels for presentations, which we seem to forget is just an electronic document with a few bells and whistles. Keynote, in my opinion, is so good that it is worth the asking price of iWorks. I considered 'Pages' a free app until it began to use it without my Word head screwed on.
Pages is not Word and I hope will never be anything like it. But it does do the Word thing that word does best, read and write .doc files which some versions of Word struggle with occasionally.
You really do need to take your Word head off and work with it for a while to get the best from Pages . If you are not a Word 'power user' you could find yourself pleasently surprised. It soon becomes very easy to produce great looking documents.
There are some features missing, most noticabley mail merge, which seems a big oversight. No doubt this will be addressed in future releases.The program is a little sluggish if you are quick on the keys. But this is v1 dont forget!
In my experience, I have not needed Powerpoint or Word for months. iWorks does all I need and more. As an example I am currently writing a training document with auto generated table of contents, imported images, tables, bookmarks and hyperlinks to web pages in the electronic form. The pdf print quality is excellent.
iWorks, to me, is the beginning of an excellent document productivity package for the majority.
Should it have a spreadsheet? Not on your life! Documents, spreadsheets and databases are all different animals even though the all share four legs and a tail.
If you need them bundled in the same package, buy Office. But just think how little Office has changed over the years, despite all the user grumbles. Keeping application types separate can do wonders for development and enhancements.
MikeTheC
Guest
Actually, there are a growing number of open-source apps available now that do increasingly better and better jobs of replacing their commercial counterparts. Examples include:
However, even as anti-Microsoft as I am, I use Office 2004 on my Mac not because of all the "power" it gives me but because of the implimentation of some features and the presentation of it's UI vs. that of others out there. I find that, even for my basic needs, the "home" apps out there from Apple and Microsoft are just too dumbed down for me. Also, as much as I'd like to see Microsoft burn, the truth is that it's products have so much brand-name recognition that, regrettably, the lack of it's availability to a platform often negates that platform from any consideration by IT departments of major corporations and by individual home users.
This, despite the fact that Office has had a history of, along with Windows itself, being a fairly flee-bitten, nasty varmint...
What I'm trying to say through all of this is that Apple should definitely produce a product which allows them to create competition for Microsoft (for it's through competition that there is true improvement), but Apple really shouldn't kick Microsoft out of it's space. At least, not yet.
I would also say, though this is somewhat afield of the point of this thread, that those of you here who haven't touched Linux yet or maybe once a bunch of years back during the initial push to mainstream Linux really should give it a look because you would be amazed at the perspective it gives you for apps and alternatives, etc.
- OpenOffice 1.13 (OO 2.0 is simply amazing)
- Gimp 2.2 (for graphics and image editing)
- Scribus 1.2.2 (for desktop publishing)
- Inkscape (vector-based, Illustrator-type program)
However, even as anti-Microsoft as I am, I use Office 2004 on my Mac not because of all the "power" it gives me but because of the implimentation of some features and the presentation of it's UI vs. that of others out there. I find that, even for my basic needs, the "home" apps out there from Apple and Microsoft are just too dumbed down for me. Also, as much as I'd like to see Microsoft burn, the truth is that it's products have so much brand-name recognition that, regrettably, the lack of it's availability to a platform often negates that platform from any consideration by IT departments of major corporations and by individual home users.
This, despite the fact that Office has had a history of, along with Windows itself, being a fairly flee-bitten, nasty varmint...
What I'm trying to say through all of this is that Apple should definitely produce a product which allows them to create competition for Microsoft (for it's through competition that there is true improvement), but Apple really shouldn't kick Microsoft out of it's space. At least, not yet.
I would also say, though this is somewhat afield of the point of this thread, that those of you here who haven't touched Linux yet or maybe once a bunch of years back during the initial push to mainstream Linux really should give it a look because you would be amazed at the perspective it gives you for apps and alternatives, etc.
Orlando Furioso
macrumors 6502
notjustjay said:
no argument here. "Full" and professional versions are insanely priced for the average home user.
FFTT
macrumors 68030
Office SWeet
This is probably tricky territory for Apple as long as they rely on Microsoft
for licensing of Office for Mac.
There could also be other copyright and patent issues slowing the process.
I've been asking a few potential power switchers at work what they consider " must have " applications IF they were to consider OS X.
I mentioned Microsoft Office for Mac, but they need more, at least in their
perspective for applications they use every day.
Top of the list for them "Word" compatibility
These were the top requests
Microsoft Project
Microsoft Access
Microsoft Works
Microsoft Excel
Lotus Notes
I realize that some of these features are covered, but a true MS Office
Killer suite is probably the one thing keeping many "on the fence" users
from switching altogether.
Even IF Apple could put together a complete pro user office suite,
then they have to keep the price competitive when compared to deeply imbedded Microsoft standards
.
Hopefully as time goes on, Apple will offer an Office bundle as a BTO
option at time of purchase.
Since I work outside the office, I'm not as familiar with these applications as many of you.
If any of you know of comparable and fully compatible OS X versions
of the MS applications listed above, it might be helpful to have a cross reference list including prices.
It may be very difficult to be legally Microsoft free, yet fully Microsoft compatible.
The other challenge will be to keep the user interfaces familiar while also
making them easier to use.
This is probably tricky territory for Apple as long as they rely on Microsoft
for licensing of Office for Mac.
There could also be other copyright and patent issues slowing the process.
I've been asking a few potential power switchers at work what they consider " must have " applications IF they were to consider OS X.
I mentioned Microsoft Office for Mac, but they need more, at least in their
perspective for applications they use every day.
Top of the list for them "Word" compatibility
These were the top requests
Microsoft Project
Microsoft Access
Microsoft Works
Microsoft Excel
Lotus Notes
I realize that some of these features are covered, but a true MS Office
Killer suite is probably the one thing keeping many "on the fence" users
from switching altogether.
Even IF Apple could put together a complete pro user office suite,
then they have to keep the price competitive when compared to deeply imbedded Microsoft standards
.
Hopefully as time goes on, Apple will offer an Office bundle as a BTO
option at time of purchase.
Since I work outside the office, I'm not as familiar with these applications as many of you.
If any of you know of comparable and fully compatible OS X versions
of the MS applications listed above, it might be helpful to have a cross reference list including prices.
It may be very difficult to be legally Microsoft free, yet fully Microsoft compatible.
The other challenge will be to keep the user interfaces familiar while also
making them easier to use.
displaced
macrumors 65816
Apple Developing Numbers?
Hehe... sorry, can't resist:
CUPERTINO - California: Apple Computer, Inc. today announced a revolutionary project to improve upon 'Numbers'. Rumoured to be an Excel-like application, Apple's Vice-President of Industrial Design, London, UK-born Johnathan Ive gave this exclusive commentary on Apple's new Numbers:
"We looked at how numbers had been done in the past, and saw that we could make a better number; one which captures the essence of numeracy.
"First, myself and the other designers at Apple asked ourselves what it meant to be a number? That's when something astonishing happened. We distilled the whole numeric domain down to just ten quintessential shapes. After much analysis of the historical use of numbers in cultures who've derived their mathematics from the Arabic pioneers, we saw that there could, indeed, be an eleventh!
"That really was a watershed moment. The realisation that we could produce a new number which attained a perfect balance. One which, as soon as it is seen, simply redefines the relationship between the user and the number."
Apple have yet to announce the availability of their new Number, or possibly, Numbers. Macintosh rumour web sites are suggesting that it could come as standard with the Intel-based Macs announced at the recent WWDC. The name, pronunciation, and even the appearance of the new number is as yet unknown. However, sources within the Taiwanese manufacturer tasked with mass-producing the number suggest that it may be named "Eleventy".
An unnamed, perm-haired Spinal Tap fan noted that "Eleventy's one more than Ten... er... Tenty." before wandering off to re-fill his bong.
It is also unknown whether or not the new number will be supported on Power PC processor Macintoshes. When questioned, Apple VP Phil Schiller held up a Wyle-e-Coyote-style placard reading "Universal Binaries!" and promptly plummeted into a gorge, saved only by an ACME-brand trampoline.
Pricing of 'Eleventy' is also a mystery. Apple's Avadis 'Avie' Tevanian suggested that it would be fully integrated into an upcoming Mac OS X release, although whether that is a 10.4 point-release or next year's 10.5 'Leopard' release is a matter for speculation.
(ok I think that's enough now. Remind me not to drink beer before mid-day.)
Hehe... sorry, can't resist:
CUPERTINO - California: Apple Computer, Inc. today announced a revolutionary project to improve upon 'Numbers'. Rumoured to be an Excel-like application, Apple's Vice-President of Industrial Design, London, UK-born Johnathan Ive gave this exclusive commentary on Apple's new Numbers:
"We looked at how numbers had been done in the past, and saw that we could make a better number; one which captures the essence of numeracy.
"First, myself and the other designers at Apple asked ourselves what it meant to be a number? That's when something astonishing happened. We distilled the whole numeric domain down to just ten quintessential shapes. After much analysis of the historical use of numbers in cultures who've derived their mathematics from the Arabic pioneers, we saw that there could, indeed, be an eleventh!
"That really was a watershed moment. The realisation that we could produce a new number which attained a perfect balance. One which, as soon as it is seen, simply redefines the relationship between the user and the number."
Apple have yet to announce the availability of their new Number, or possibly, Numbers. Macintosh rumour web sites are suggesting that it could come as standard with the Intel-based Macs announced at the recent WWDC. The name, pronunciation, and even the appearance of the new number is as yet unknown. However, sources within the Taiwanese manufacturer tasked with mass-producing the number suggest that it may be named "Eleventy".
An unnamed, perm-haired Spinal Tap fan noted that "Eleventy's one more than Ten... er... Tenty." before wandering off to re-fill his bong.
It is also unknown whether or not the new number will be supported on Power PC processor Macintoshes. When questioned, Apple VP Phil Schiller held up a Wyle-e-Coyote-style placard reading "Universal Binaries!" and promptly plummeted into a gorge, saved only by an ACME-brand trampoline.
Pricing of 'Eleventy' is also a mystery. Apple's Avadis 'Avie' Tevanian suggested that it would be fully integrated into an upcoming Mac OS X release, although whether that is a 10.4 point-release or next year's 10.5 'Leopard' release is a matter for speculation.
(ok I think that's enough now. Remind me not to drink beer before mid-day.)