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Another problem with the Atv 4 is that many developers don't seem to be releasing apps for it. I would love to be able to play console-level games such as implosion on the big screen but game support so far has been fairly poor. Heck, batman was recently released for ios as well.

This is true. Even games that seem to be very compatible with the ATV4 remote, such as Infinity Blade, isn't available for the ATV4.

I am not sure why. As for console games, my guess is that it has to do with Apple's requirement that the app has to use the remote.
 
This is true. Even games that seem to be very compatible with the ATV4 remote, such as Infinity Blade, isn't available for the ATV4.

I am not sure why. As for console games, my guess is that it has to do with Apple's requirement that the app has to use the remote.

That and it was a genuine pain to search for apps and pay for them. You can't link to them from a website like on a mobile device. Keying in your ID using a remote is simply an exercise in masochism. We have Apple Pay for websites, why not for the Apple TV?

Which is frustrating because I see a lot of potential in the Atv but Apple doesn't seem to be devoting as much attention to it.
 
I'm really happy with the ATV3. We have 4 of them throughout the house. I love the clean, attractive interface. It's nice to be able to hide "apps" you don't want to see/use, as it keeps the home screen clutter-free. I like the ATV4 too. We have one 32 GB, and one 64 GB. I think each device (3 & 4) has a clear advantage over the other.

ATV3 better:

- Apps are better. People have mentioned Netflix having genres on the ATV3 and not on the ATV4. HBOGO & Showtime Anytime suck on the ATV4 too. They don't offer autoplay. If I want to binge a show I have to go back out to the menu after every episode and select the next episode. They offer autoplay on the ATV3. I also like to fall asleep to shows. If I'm using HGBOGO or Showtime Anytime and I want to keep playing one episode after another until my sleep timer shuts things down, I either have to airplay from an iDevice or use the ATV3 (or another device, like the Amazon Fire TV). ATV4 will play one episode, and then retreat to the show's menu. I know this is the app developer and not Apple, but still. No autoplay is lame.

- Optical audio out. I know there are workarounds for not having it on the ATV4. I'd prefer the ATV4 just included the port.

ATV4 better:

- Having Siri voice search really helps find a show or movie more quickly. If I know I want to watch something, I can get it started much more quickly using that. It's great that the voice search works across providers (iTunes, Netflix, Hulu, etc...) too. We have Amazon devices with voice search, and their devices only search through Amazon's content (although their new devices coming out this month are supposed to work across different providers).

- Siri allows you to go to a specific part of the movie/show very quickly and efficiently. If I want to skip the credits on "The West Wing" (or whatever), I just say "fast forward 45 seconds." You can also fast forward using the touch screen remote very efficiently. It shows you the scenes you're scrolling through on a little box. With the ATV3 you have to hit fast forward like you're ffd'ing through a DVD. It shows you what you're skipping, but not very efficiently. It's more labor intensive and less precise.

- With more power under the hood than the ATV3, I can pull up & search through my iTunes owned content much more quickly. If you have a lot of movies or tv shows, it takes a while for the ATV3 to show all movies/shows. The ATV4 pulls up the entire list quickly.

Both devices have a much more attractive interface than the Amazon devices, for example. Amazon is bunched up and fugly. I suppose it can be cleaned up by rooting/hacking the device, but I really don't like it out of the box. I have 229 videos purchased through Amazon (movies & tv shows combined). When I look at "Your Video Library," it literally lays them all out in a single line in order of date of purchase, from left to right (with the most recent purchase being the first one on the left). It's maddening to scroll through all of your content that way.

I own a bunch of devices.

ATV4 - 2 (one 32 GB, one 64 GB)
ATV3 - 4
ATV2 - 1 (still in the box)
Amazon Fire TV - 1
Amazon Fire TV Stick - 3 (two with regular remotes, one with voice remote)
Roku 2 XS - 1
Google Chromecast - 1
Vizio Smart TV - 1 (not crazy about the apps on smart tv's)

I've never rooted/hacked anything or side loaded anything. I use them all "stock." Apple are my favorite devices. I just wish you could get Amazon (and Vudu, etc...) on Apple devices and iTunes on Amazon (and Roku, etc...) devices. At least you can watch Amazon content on ATV's through airplay via iPhone/iPad.

I wish Apple had future-proofed the ATV4 with 4K. The last time I checked (a couple months ago), there was very little content on Amazon & Netflix in 4K. I suppose it's going to grow exponentially, but having to pay extra (Netflix) for very little content...eh. I still wish Apple had included the ability to watch things in 4K.
This is a pretty fair review of both products. I have some more to add on both.

ATV3 is better:
Stable
, it self-reboots only once in a while, a few times a year lately.
Lack of bugs, it is a simple UI, that just works.
Set up, you can take it out of the box, and have it ready to use in a few minutes with little delay.
Restart, if you have to restart, it does so very quickly.
Ease of use, my technologically-challenged parents can use it using their TV remote without losing features.
3rd party remote friendly, you use the remote learning feature, and the button functions are standard for all apps.
Full screen when paused, you can view the whole screen when a video is paused. It is not covered up, or darkened.
YouTube, the app has more options, such as related videos and viewing a persons channel right from a video.
Netflix, Probably the best Netflix UI that I have used so far. You can see related videos, genres, and info about a video.
Hulu, loads fast.
Buffering, never a problem like the ATV4.
Searching, using text entry is easy to use.
Price, you can buy a few refurbished ones for the price of the 64GB ATV4.
Faster, while having a slower processor, it seems faster on many,(although not all) tasks.

ATV4 is better:
App Store,
probably (or potentially) the best thing about the ATV4, although quality apps are lacking.
Multi-Task? Not sure if that would be the right word to use, but you can (sometimes) play two apps at the same time.
Netflix, looks pretty.
Voice search, when it works, it is like magic, when it doesn't find something it should, it is frustrating.
Hawaii screen saver, looks unreal, like a videogame. Makes me want to be there.
Not being discontinued, at least not yet.


I could probably name many more for both, but the ATV3 is better in the important ways imo. I wish I could add voice search and multi task to the ATV3. That, plus a few current apps from the ATV4 app store, and the ATV3 would be almost perfect for me.

I think Apple really dropped the ball on the ATV4. I was looking forward to it when it was just a rumored and been mostly disappointed with it so far. The bugs, random restarts, horrible Netflix app, and general chunkiness of it, it feels like it we are all beta testers.
 
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I'm thinking of buying a 3rd generation ATV at BestBuy before they sell out. I'm still using my ATV 2 and I have no use for the current ATV.
 
I own a bunch of devices.

ATV4 - 2 (one 32 GB, one 64 GB)
ATV3 - 4
ATV2 - 1 (still in the box)
Amazon Fire TV - 1
Amazon Fire TV Stick - 3 (two with regular remotes, one with voice remote)
Roku 2 XS - 1
Google Chromecast - 1
Vizio Smart TV - 1 (not crazy about the apps on smart tv's)

I've never rooted/hacked anything or side loaded anything. I use them all "stock." Apple are my favorite devices. I just wish you could get Amazon (and Vudu, etc...) on Apple devices and iTunes on Amazon (and Roku, etc...) devices. At least you can watch Amazon content on ATV's through airplay via iPhone/iPad.

FireTV doesn't need "hacked" to side load. It's an option right in the setup menu (select allow developer programs) and then use ADBLink to load whatever you want (I have Kodi installed plus a separate ProjectM visualizer app (Kodi for Android has jack squat for visualizers). It works great and doesn't disappear when software is upgraded and it appears in the Apps menu and the recently used menu of FireTV (i.e. no other menu loaders needed anymore). Netflix on FireTV has a nice interface now. Overall, I like it better than the AppleTV Gen2/3 one save perhaps the "if you like this check these out also" menu at the bottom, but it never had as many entries as the iTunes stuff anyway.

If you want a store purchase "Kodi" there's always MrMC which is $7, but a Kodi derivative that has full video switching and 4K video support already in it from what I've read.

I wish Apple had future-proofed the ATV4 with 4K. The last time I checked (a couple months ago), there was very little content on Amazon & Netflix in 4K. I suppose it's going to grow exponentially, but having to pay extra (Netflix) for very little content...eh. I still wish Apple had included the ability to watch things in 4K.

The nice thing is Amazon finally released the developer code API to enable 4K from other Apps. MrMC which is a derivative of KODI already supports 4K video ($7 in Amazon App Store) and SPMC supposedly will support it soon as well (beta is out there I think). I don't know about future Kodi support as there seems to be some rifts between developers and at least one person (Ned Scott) reporting it as a "hostile working environment" and I find that completely plausible given some of the interactions I've had with certain developers there.
 
This is true. Even games that seem to be very compatible with the ATV4 remote, such as Infinity Blade, isn't available for the ATV4.

I am not sure why. As for console games, my guess is that it has to do with Apple's requirement that the app has to use the remote.

I always found the same.. Maybe because its take time to write to tVOS and Apple TV 4 is still new-ish.. or the fact Apple doesn't want Apple TV 4 to be a console game type.. or just pure tech specs limitations they it will never do even in the future..

Could be a dozen reasons for this. Plus you don't need to use the Apple TV remote.. u can use a controller if the app supports it, so that's not a reason to not include it..

Perhaps , Apple thinks "who would wanna play Infinite blade on their TV" when we have a current iPad with more horse power than can do this, and u have Airplay.
 
Another problem with the Atv 4 is that many developers don't seem to be releasing apps for it. I would love to be able to play console-level games such as implosion on the big screen but game support so far has been fairly poor. Heck, batman was recently released for ios as well.

Apple seems to go out of their way to make developing Apps a royal PITA for developers. Just the fact that they are not allowed to release games that require a game controller (i.e. with no remote support) instantly KILLS a huge amount of gaming potential. You simply cannot play certain games with that stupid remote. Apple should have included a PS4 style gaming controller with the system. Throw in the fact Apple won't allow this and that type of App and gives horrible feedback, etc. and it's a small wonder no one wants to bother with Apple products anymore.

Look at games on the Mac App store. Buy Borderlands 2 there and you're SCREWED. You will have almost ZERO ability to play multiplayer online because App store requires using Apple's gaming system that only Mac users can use while the Steam version lets you play against PC and Mac players on their server and it sets up matches very easily. It's awesome by comparison. Screw Apple's App store. It sucks. Plus Steam games go on sale a lot and you can get HUGE discounts (85% off sometimes. In fact, the Borderlands game was going for like $7 or $8 with several add-ons last year near Christmas. Apple doesn't offer much in the way of sales...ever.

That and it was a genuine pain to search for apps and pay for them. You can't link to them from a website like on a mobile device. Keying in your ID using a remote is simply an exercise in masochism. We have Apple Pay for websites, why not for the Apple TV?

Which is frustrating because I see a lot of potential in the Atv but Apple doesn't seem to be devoting as much attention to it.

Apple doesn't devote much attention to a LOT OF THINGS anymore (e.g. getting certain Mac models out on a regular basis. For example, after finally updating the Mac Pro a few years ago, they took away the PCI bus and ability to use it as a real "Pro" machine and they haven't updated it ONCE since they released it and as usual, they don't discount it even after it's lost half it's value. Who the frack is going to buy it???? It's like they wanted to kill it....

Where's the Macbook Pro models with Thunderbolt III over USB-C that would allow a hub with one wire to offer a load of ports, power and a gaming quality graphics card? All they update is that damn iPhone and even there they are taking useful things away (i.e. the headphone jack).

Let's face it. APPLE SUCKS TO HIGH HELL ANYMORE. I may not even buy another Mac at this rate. I already switched from AppleTV to FireTV 4K and from iPod Touch and iPhone to a Windows Phone of all things (hard to beat $40 for a Lumia 640 running Windows 10 plus $98 for a 200GB SD Card with 2x the battery life of the iPhone and only paying $17 a month equivalent with Tracphone. Screw the iPhone.)
 
ever heard of beamer? its a mac app that lets you airplay any content directly from your PC. It's godly.

No, I use windows. Does it work on windows?
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Why would you bother doing that when there are plenty of great video apps in the AppleTV app store (e.g. Infuse) that will play any video type you can throw at them?

Infuse doesn't play AC3 audio, which is is 90% of HD mkv files.

You need to pay $12 or something. Kodi is free
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Come on, there are so many easy solution to this. Can download any MKV file an stream it to your apple TV using Beamer, VLC or any other tool. With VLC you can even store your files directly on the ATV (as long as there sufficient space).
No reason to jump ship at all, just jump into the 21th century.
[doublepost=1475659137][/doublepost]

VLC doesn't play AC3 encoded audio, which is used pretty much for all HD mkv files
 
you don't need the Apple remote for games. Why check the facts when you just go on a long winded rant
Not with the latest TV OS update, but that was the case when the Apple TV was first released. Games had to explicitly support the Apple TV remote, even when the controls didn't make sense. That probably killed off way more interest and momentum in developing games for Apple TV platform than it was worth, and I am not sure if Apple can even rekindle the interest in said platform.
 
Does that mean that Apple TV 5 is on the horizon? If it is to compete with Roku, Firestick, etc., it certainly needs to
 
Since that's no longer a requirement I hope to see more games for it in the future.
I didn't hear about this. This gives me some hope for gaming on the ATV4.

Although, it seems like this should have been the standard prior to the release of the ATV4. I wonder what games would be available now if Apple would have done it differently.

you don't need the Apple remote for games. Why check the facts when you just go on a long winded rant
Long winded rant?
I mentioned it in one sentence. One less sentence than your complaint. Hardly a dissertation on the subject.
See:
As for console games, my guess is that it has to do with Apple's requirement that the app has to use the remote.
[doublepost=1475841237][/doublepost]
Not with the latest TV OS update, but that was the case when the Apple TV was first released. Games had to explicitly support the Apple TV remote, even when the controls didn't make sense. That probably killed off way more interest and momentum in developing games for Apple TV platform than it was worth, and I am not sure if Apple can even rekindle the interest in said platform.

That is my thinking too. There was a lot of complaining on the forums about the Apple remote requirement a year ago.

Prior to that, the rumors were saying that the ATV4 could have PS3 quality games.

Obviously it didn't happen, but who know what could of happened if Apple didn't handicap the ATV4 from the start.
 
Dont worry, they still sell the MacBook Pro from 2012!
Thats a shame.
They should have discontinued it when the 4th gen was released.
Nope, because it was a cheap and easy way to get Netflix, iTunes Movie Store, Apple events and my Mac screen on a big, bolt screen (in the living room, conference room, wherever). I bought it used for 40$ and I have much fun with it. It's something like the essential and the ATV 4 was the Pro.
I'll continue to use my Apple TV 3 until it passes on. Does everything I need it to.
Yes!
 
No, I use windows. Does it work on windows?
[doublepost=1475816971][/doublepost]

Infuse doesn't play AC3 audio, which is is 90% of HD mkv files.

According to the VLC website, it plays all of the following: MPEG Layer 1/2, MP3 - MPEG Layer 3, AAC - MPEG-4 part3, Vorbis, AC3 - A/52, E-AC-3, MLP / TrueHD>3, DTS, WMA 1/2, WMA 3, FLAC, ALAC, Speex, Musepack / MPC, ATRAC 3, Wavpack, Mod, TrueAudio, APE, Real Audio, Alaw/µlaw, AMR (3GPP), MIDI, LPCM, ADPCM, QCELP, DV Audio, QDM2/QDMC, MACE.
 
you don't need the Apple remote for games. Why check the facts when you just go on a long winded rant

What reason would I have to check it? I saw no announcement on here (although I did just get back from a 5 week trip to Europe the week before so I might have just "caught up" on announcements and missed something. But even a search now says the "announcement" from Apple was hidden in a "tvOS" announcement (i.e. they didn't make any kind of big deal about it). Developers probably already wrote off the AppleTV4 long before this. In other words, too little too late. Plus there's the issue of most AppleTV users not having a game controller (since Apple didn't include one) and that creates a chicken/egg scenario where developers aren't going to bother if there's hardly anyone who can play a gaming controller only game. Apple SHOULD have included a controller from Day 1 and had the App Store ready to go and easier to search not to mention not having the "Remote App" ready on Day 1 to work with it was a huge black eye for them with people screaming left and right what a fracking PITA it was just to put their credentials in with that single line keyboard setup, etc. Apple blew it. They don't know how to make a new product work right anymore and that's sad from a company that USED TO be known "to just work".
 
Does that mean that Apple TV 5 is on the horizon? If it is to compete with Roku, Firestick, etc., it certainly needs to

I am not sure what a refreshed Apple TV can offer beyond better specs and 4K support. The main problem it faces are content and apps, and their success will hinge on whether Apple can successfully negotiate with the content owners and developers.

Seriously. The App Store is a joke.
 
I am not sure what a refreshed Apple TV can offer beyond better specs and 4K support. The main problem it faces are content and apps, and their success will hinge on whether Apple can successfully negotiate with the content owners and developers.

Seriously. The App Store is a joke.

The Mac App store is a joke also. They tend to put way too onerous requirements on developers and then kick people out of the App store whenever they feel like it or block some types of Apps and unlike iOS, Mac developers have a real choice to just say NO to the App Store and do their own thing without Apple breathing down their neck. Apple has still managed to put the kibosh on some Apps even so with their onerous security crap that's a PITA to override thus many developers don't bother anymore. XtraFinder simply doesn't work that well anymore even with it disabled (causes slowdowns and buggy crap eventually, possibly because it's not using Metal calls or who knows what internally; it got a lot slower with El Capitan compared to Mavericks).
 
Maybe if you are going to comment on something you should be up to date on the facts

Sorry, but I don't check "facts" every single day of the year, especially for a platform as troubled as AppleTV. The fact remains that they only recently and quietly removed that requirement and that is was in place for over 6 months, discouraging gaming development for it. Whether it will ever help it, I don't know, but I know that if I were ever going to consider buying one, I would want to know what apps and games are available for it. Yet the last time I looked, I could not even search for apps/games for it and looking right now...I still can't find more than advertisements for the device in a general fashion from Apple.

Why can't you search for games on a web page or even iTunes and/or the Mac App Store. Is it so difficult for Apple to put it together and put a tab so we can easily see what's available for this platform? Why should I buy one if I can't easily find out what apps and games are available for it ahead of time? In other words, you shouldn't have to buy one just to see what software is available for it.

I simply don't see this platform going anywhere any time soon. It's obvious Apple hoped to have alternate packages to cable/satellite TV but can't get anywhere with it so they just put it back on the back burner along with the Mac Pro (no updates for two years and not price reduction what-so-ever) and timely Mac hardware updates in general.

It is becoming painfully clear Apple only really cares about the iPhone these days. Everything else is a second class citizen. I think some of us preferred the pre-iPhone days as the Mac got far more attention and regular updates. Apple is the one of if not the richest tech company in the world and they somehow just cannot manage to hire enough people to keep their hardware up-to-date. They can't even manage to lower the price when the hardware goes out of date like the Mac Pro.
 
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Full screen when paused, you can view the whole screen when a video is paused. It is not covered up, or darkened.
A major pet peeve. However, you can get rid of that crap by pausing, swiping down (to bring up the Info/Audio bar), then swipe up again to make it go away, then wait a few seconds and the search bar will fade out.

Not sure if it's a bug or a very obscure feature, but there it is.
 
Dont worry, they still sell the MacBook Pro from 2012!
Not that you're bitter or anything :p

The Late-2011 was the last decent MBP. I love Retina, but, I hate the whole "thin, thin, thin" thing with glued in batteries. Sad.

If you want a store purchase "Kodi" there's always MrMC which is $7, but a Kodi derivative that has full video switching and 4K video support already in it from what I've read.
--
The nice thing is Amazon finally released the developer code API to enable 4K from other Apps. MrMC which is a derivative of KODI already supports 4K video ($7 in Amazon App Store) and SPMC supposedly will support it soon as well (beta is out there I think). .

My 4K TV has its own network interface, with Netflix, etc. Not as convenient as the ATV3 GUI, however. So, I still use the ATV3 on occasion. I just find it bizarre that ATV4 doesn't do 4K/HDR.
 
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