MorphingDragon
macrumors 603
So? Intel only makes iGPUs so they wont care. Apple wont care if nVidia does not like it. They could easily just include an ATi HD4350 in the low end segment and use Intel Chipsets which are a lot better IMO.
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Apple Dropping NVIDIA for Future Macs?
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So? Intel only makes iGPUs so they wont care. Apple wont care if nVidia does not like it. They could easily just include an ATi HD4350 in the low end segment and use Intel Chipsets which are a lot better IMO.
Bull.
1) There's nothing better to switch to
2) They carried on with a roll out of 9400 across the ENTIRE RANGE, WELL after the orig nVidia problems were unearthed.
Complete nonsense.
IlluminatedSage
macrumors 68000
by the same thoughts that Apple is giving, maybe apple consumers who have problems with apple computers ought to give up on Apple? no way.
right now Nvidia i think has corrected their problems and no doubt should have fixed the issue the problem created, ie pay for all this mess.
sorry, i hate intel graphics chips and i think ATI is good, but sometimes Nvidia has a better chip for a specific use.
It doesn't matter how much work Apple put into nVidia chips. Past experience with Apple is enough to show that they have no problem with abandoning something they put a lot work into. This is why there's no such thing as "legacy" support in the modern Mac world.
As for OpenCL, lack of current support for as-of-yet-unreleased graphics chips is a non-issue. New cards will support OpenCL. And the final OpenCL drivers aren't even out yet. The world will be a different place after the cross-platform OpenCL-compliant drivers are released (probably around the same time as Snow Leapord).
I personally verified this after I learned that the GT120 is nothing more than a low-cost OEM card. I was initially disappointed with the 8800GT in my early-2008 Mac Pro, but that was nothing compared to the disappointment I experienced when I compared graphics performance to a 2009 Mac Pro with the GT120. Hopefully, the GTX 285 on its way will fix all that.
As for OpenCL, lack of current support for as-of-yet-unreleased graphics chips is a non-issue. New cards will support OpenCL. And the final OpenCL drivers aren't even out yet. The world will be a different place after the cross-platform OpenCL-compliant drivers are released (probably around the same time as Snow Leapord).
I personally verified this after I learned that the GT120 is nothing more than a low-cost OEM card. I was initially disappointed with the 8800GT in my early-2008 Mac Pro, but that was nothing compared to the disappointment I experienced when I compared graphics performance to a 2009 Mac Pro with the GT120. Hopefully, the GTX 285 on its way will fix all that.
For the record, I put all my chips in nVidia cards, having somehow totally missed the news about bumpgate. So I hope nVidia gets their act together, because I don't want to reevaluate that decision. I've had good experiences with nVidia across the board, a terrible experience with the worthless GMA 950, and wholly lackluster experiences with ATI chips.
If Apple switches, they better make a compelling and substantive case for why the change is a step in the right direction, not just tell us that crap is new black.
If Apple switches, they better make a compelling and substantive case for why the change is a step in the right direction, not just tell us that crap is new black.
Why do everybody forgets about the Mini? Please, put back there the Mini (OTOH maybe not, if this is true, I hope the Mini does not get updated for another couple of years 😛). Let´s hope Intel can make a decent GPU in a couple of years. Can Larrabee match nVidia´s integrated GPUs? What about temperature?
The real reason for this seems to me Intel´s lawyers.
The real reason for this seems to me Intel´s lawyers.
nVIDIA makes total junk. They always have. Sure, it's fast performing junk (but they're also known to cheat on benchmarks by lowering rendering quality when they detect a benchmark)
ATI has always been more reliable, more stable, better rendering quality, and better supported - if not as fast.
Look at what nVIDIA did to 3dfx customers when they bought 3dfx - they immediately ceased releasing drivers, not even releasing an XP driver. Just dropped all support immediately, even for the most recently released 3dfx cards.
nVIDIA has ALWAYS been a lousy company that has an excellent price to speed ratio. You get what you pay for and I'm glad to see Apple turning away.
Oh, P.S. yes, I own a new 13" MacBook Pro and am TICKED about the SATA issues that the *nVIDIA CHIPSET* is having. Oh, and yes, I had a very recent (a few months before the buyout) 3dfx card years ago and was TICKED that it wasn't supported in XP because nVIDIA immediately dropped 3dfx driver support. nVIDIA has shown me time and again they are worthless. Oh, ask anyone who bought their 3D shutterglasses setup they sold then quit supporting. Or... Or...
Honestly, I was tempted not to buy the new Mac just cause of the nVIDIA chipset but figured all companies can make good for the right price, and Apple must be getting the best nVIDIA has. I'm learning how untrue that is with the SATA issues...
ATI has always been more reliable, more stable, better rendering quality, and better supported - if not as fast.
Look at what nVIDIA did to 3dfx customers when they bought 3dfx - they immediately ceased releasing drivers, not even releasing an XP driver. Just dropped all support immediately, even for the most recently released 3dfx cards.
nVIDIA has ALWAYS been a lousy company that has an excellent price to speed ratio. You get what you pay for and I'm glad to see Apple turning away.
Oh, P.S. yes, I own a new 13" MacBook Pro and am TICKED about the SATA issues that the *nVIDIA CHIPSET* is having. Oh, and yes, I had a very recent (a few months before the buyout) 3dfx card years ago and was TICKED that it wasn't supported in XP because nVIDIA immediately dropped 3dfx driver support. nVIDIA has shown me time and again they are worthless. Oh, ask anyone who bought their 3D shutterglasses setup they sold then quit supporting. Or... Or...
Honestly, I was tempted not to buy the new Mac just cause of the nVIDIA chipset but figured all companies can make good for the right price, and Apple must be getting the best nVIDIA has. I'm learning how untrue that is with the SATA issues...
It's not as simple as that. Apple was planning to use the 9400 for over a year which was about the time the issues with the 8600 were being recognized. There is even some question now of whether the 9600 will suffer those same issues.
I don't want to move away from Nvidia either but Apple would have to be pissed at having to service all those faulty MBPs without Applecare. This lack of reliability also hurts Apple's reputation. Maybe there will be ATI cards that will support OpenCL or Intel could improve their own solution.
I just hope Apple moves away from integrated graphics for all MBPs in the future.
I just don't know. ATI cards suck, NVIDIA apparently sucks now too, but Intel is a weak choice. If true, this move would suck.😡
BTW, Every mac I've owned with an NVIDIA chip has never had an issue. My Mac Pro at work has an ATI card that is glitchy and gave up the ghost last month. My bosses mac had the same card and it had major issues too. He replaced his with a nice NVIDIA card while I'm stuck with a Applecare replacement card that is still glitchy. Oh well, at least it works.
BTW, Every mac I've owned with an NVIDIA chip has never had an issue. My Mac Pro at work has an ATI card that is glitchy and gave up the ghost last month. My bosses mac had the same card and it had major issues too. He replaced his with a nice NVIDIA card while I'm stuck with a Applecare replacement card that is still glitchy. Oh well, at least it works.
Even though NVIDIA has had some manufacturing issues, Apple contines to make profits...BIG profits. People are still switching to Mac...not running away from it.
However, I would not count out Apple switching to Intel as Intel may have non-disclosed future products that may completely dominate NVIDIA.
Remember, HIS JOBNESS *starts religious chanting* is omniscient and "sees" the future, so I am sure whatever graphics options is selected will be the best... *end religious chanting*
However, I would not count out Apple switching to Intel as Intel may have non-disclosed future products that may completely dominate NVIDIA.
Remember, HIS JOBNESS *starts religious chanting* is omniscient and "sees" the future, so I am sure whatever graphics options is selected will be the best... *end religious chanting*
macintoshtoffy
macrumors 6502a
Why? what is wrong with Intel? have you used the X4500? its a damn site more reliable than the rubbish that Nvidia pushes out as 'stable'. The last straw for me with Nvidia was their buck passing when their products started to fail - blaming everyone else except themselves. The worse part of the Nvidia fiasco is it isn't Nvidia who will suffer but those OEM's who used Nvidia products and are now having their products labelled as 'unreliable' by the average person.
Apple can't afford to have a supplier on their books that makes them look bad - name me a single Intel GPU that has had the specular product quality failures that Nvidia has.
Pressure
macrumors 603
"SemiAccurate" or not, the fact remains that nVIDIA does not currently hold any license to manufacture and/or produce an Nehalem compatible chipset.
As far as it goes right now, it is entirely accurate!
Unless of course you all would rather see Apple dabble with Core 2 Duo in the next few revisions of the notebook family instead of using a Nehalem derivative.
Intel is expected to introduce new integrated graphic chips later this year to go with the new mobile processors.
As far as it goes right now, it is entirely accurate!
Unless of course you all would rather see Apple dabble with Core 2 Duo in the next few revisions of the notebook family instead of using a Nehalem derivative.
Intel is expected to introduce new integrated graphic chips later this year to go with the new mobile processors.
MattInOz
macrumors 68030
It's all about chipsets but only really the southbridge part of the chipset, as the the new Nemehlem mobile CPU's integrate the whole of the northbridge with the CPU. So along with the DMI for linking to the southbridge they include and 8xPCI for Dedicated GPU connection.
The Intel/nVidia dispute is over the DMI seeing as nVidia Licensed the rights to make North and South bridges even though they never used the interface because they made them as one chip they say the license includes the right to build for DMI, Intel says No you don't.
So Apple either have to bring the parties together or choose from the option they have open. Which still includes adding a dedicated GPU of their choosing. But may have to live with intel southbridge which could mean they are stuck with intel wifi as well.
macintoshtoffy
macrumors 6502a
And your review of Intel graphics card is based on what expertise?
Use a X4500 or even a X3100 for every tasks and tell me there is a 'massive' amount of difference between those and Nvidia.
Oh, and at least with Intel it doesn't die after 6 months.
macintoshtoffy
macrumors 6502a
Yeah hum this is highly unlikely to happen since nvidia parts save Apple money and the manufacturing problems were fixed something like and year ago. It was after the manufacturing flaws were discovered that Apple went all the way in with nvidia chipsets so this supposed "rumor" is a pile of steaming crap. Plus Intel has no chipset that can compete with nvidia's offering or has real plans to make one. Considering that SL heavily depends on GPU processing going back to Intel is stupid even from an engineering perspective.
macintoshtoffy
macrumors 6502a
Thank you for the links; if it is going to be released in the forth quarter I wouldn't be surprised if one see's it appearing in Apples products by at least either the first or second quarter or 2010. Apple's fitting a war where they're trying to max out the grunt whilst also having a top notch battery life.
edddeduck
macrumors 68020
The difference between a X3100 and a NV9400 is like night and day! My day job is working in computer gaming and the new NV 9400 based machines can play newer Mac games in development with decent frame rates.
The X3100 has to have a special low end path written for it for it to even run at all in many cases.
On the PC the 3D Mark 05 for the three cards are below :-
NV9400 - 3692 4.6x Faster
X4500 - 1332 1.6x Faster
X3100 - 797
The newer 4500 card is a lot better than the X3100 but that does not mean it is in the same league as the 9400. (All these cards use integrated system memory).
Edwin
But for NVIDIA (or any other manufacturer) not to be able to buy licenses to manufacture/produce a Nehalem compatible chipset, would put Intel squarely as a target for a anti-trust lawsuit.
tom.
macrumors 6502
Are you mental? You say everything like it is fact and yet 99% of the time you are completely off the mark (your infamous Nehalem thread, for example). Innocent passers-by and newbies might actually buy the stuff you post, so please either pipe-down or stop pretending you are preaching a known truth.
I think it is much more likely Apple will punish nVidia after several faulty roll-outs than after the first. However, that said - I don't think they will drop nVidia Chipsets
macintoshtoffy
macrumors 6502a
Terrible? by what metric? are you trying to run Crysis or something on there? its a laptop, it does laptoppy things; if you want something to run games you're better off with a console, a high end iMac or a PC.
MorphingDragon
macrumors 603
Driver Quality:
ATi/AMD, Intel
Power:
ATi/AMD, nVidia.
Ding Ding Ding
ATi wins Woo.
😱
NO really, Id prefer a GMA over GeForce because Intel can actually write drivers for their hardware. nVidia like messing with their customers. Why is a GT120 only an 8600 and GT130 a 8800 renamed?
ATi/AMD, Intel
Power:
ATi/AMD, nVidia.
Ding Ding Ding
ATi wins Woo.
😱
NO really, Id prefer a GMA over GeForce because Intel can actually write drivers for their hardware. nVidia like messing with their customers. Why is a GT120 only an 8600 and GT130 a 8800 renamed?
Those talking about intel graphics,have you heard of Larabee ? It promises a lot,it's true,but it can be good,who knows?
For Nvidia,I hope they will change..
1st- nvidias had problems with the 8600gt and from what I've red with some 9600Gt too...
2nd - Ati's models equivalent to nvidia are cheaper, so it can be cheap to us too.And the performance are the same or better.
3rd - For those who say "there nothing better to change" you are joking right?If macbooks had a nvidia quadro maybe that could be true (even ati having firegl),but with geforce?!?!lol it's almost all the same.
So,for a macbook pro,best thing is:
intel + quadro fx or intel + ati radeon hybrid design 🙂
For Nvidia,I hope they will change..
1st- nvidias had problems with the 8600gt and from what I've red with some 9600Gt too...
2nd - Ati's models equivalent to nvidia are cheaper, so it can be cheap to us too.And the performance are the same or better.
3rd - For those who say "there nothing better to change" you are joking right?If macbooks had a nvidia quadro maybe that could be true (even ati having firegl),but with geforce?!?!lol it's almost all the same.
So,for a macbook pro,best thing is:
intel + quadro fx or intel + ati radeon hybrid design 🙂