Apple Drops iCloud Support for iOS 10 and macOS Sierra

[hanske68]

Dislike. I just put a new battery in my (almost forgotten) 2016 MBP, which is running smoothly again, very nice.

As I am switching to 'battery less computing' (read: Mac mini), I want to have a lightweight macbook for occasional on the go, for which an old macbook is perfect. However, not being able to access cloud content is a bit ridiculous. Cloud should be nothing more than safe remote storage, not yet another mechanism to force hardware to become obsolete and outdated. IMO this is marketing and bad for environment, another symptom of our 'commercial throw away society'.

 

[throAU]

It's also yet another reminder that "the cloud" is not really a permanent storage medium that's comparable to, say, a archival DVD-R. It's inherently transitory.

The data is still there, but typically people upgrade/replace their hardware after 5-10 years, and like it or not we live in a world with a hostile internet that makes keeping up with security updates important.

It's like complaining that your 10 year old DVD player that broke outside of its 3 year warranty can't play DVDs any more.

Security requirements need to keep with the times and a 10 year old OS is not going to cut it any more. As your account can be easily compromised via a user owned (and user trusted) but compromised device, this is really the only responsible path for a custodian of your data to take. Otherwise people will be complaining that they had their iCloud data stolen via a hack from one of their ancient unsupported and insecure devices.

 

[sotosoul]

I'm a bit confused. While the official support article claims that basically every Apple cloud service now requires iOS 11 and above, I am still able to send and receive iMessages from my old iPhone 4S running iOS 9 (!) What's more, I am still able to browse my iCloud drive from my iPad 4 running iOS 10, to access my photos, and view my account under Settings. I was under the impression that none of that would work...

 

[hanske68]

The data is still there, but typically people upgrade/replace their hardware after 5-10 years, and like it or not we live in a world with a hostile internet that makes keeping up with security updates important.

It's like complaining that your 10 year old DVD player that broke outside of its 3 year warranty can't play DVDs any more.

Security requirements need to keep with the times and a 10 year old OS is not going to cut it any more. As your account can be easily compromised via a user owned (and user trusted) but compromised device, this is really the only responsible path for a custodian of your data to take. Otherwise people will be complaining that they had their iCloud data stolen via a hack from one of their ancient unsupported and insecure devices.

Security is just an excuse to make us renew devices, preferable yearly. In old times we had a watch for life and verily records that lasted forever. Nowadays we need to subscribe to services and update hardware all the time. Thinking about it, it is quite ridiculous. Even cars nowadays follow these trends: the car can last 20 years easily. The operating system used to be a long lasting engine. Now it is a short lived battery and an internal OS that outdates a car rapidly. Next: buy a new car yearly, or subscribe to some cab service that will cost you double over time. Hallelujah.

 

[sotosoul]

I'd like to see a DVD-R with Google Cloud Storage's 11 9s durability.

It's about control, not "durability".

The most durable storage system, be it service or medium, won't retain any data if the owner pushes the delete button.

 

[sotosoul]

On second thoughts, @montuori, you have a good point. At work, we often worry about what would happen to our data stored in One zone S3 class if a drone blew up the data center but, in reality, we have never lost any data because of Amazon; we do have archived data, however, that we cannot access because it's stored on efing tapes and the tape drive broke and replacing it costs thousands of euros... yeah... 😅 Fortunately it's not irreplaceable data.

 

[technole]

I'm a bit confused. While the official support article claims that basically every Apple cloud service now requires iOS 11 and above, I am still able to send and receive iMessages from my old iPhone 4S running iOS 9 (!) What's more, I am still able to browse my iCloud drive from my iPad 4 running iOS 10, to access my photos, and view my account under Settings. I was under the impression that none of that would work...

iMessage isn't part of iCloud, it's a protocol. iCloud portion only used to backup the messages OTA.

 

[Populus]

At first, because I was confused and misunderstood what this meant, I was worried and upset. “Only 9 years of support”, I thought.

But then I realized it was 9 extra years of support after stopping the software support for that device. If we add that to the regular 7 years of software support that on average both iOS and macOS receive, we’re looking at a total of 16 years of support for a machine.

Don’t get me wrong, ideally I’d like to keep my devices operational as long as possible, and if Apple keeps rising the minimum for iCloud usage, I’ll get (rightly) upset, because I don’t want to throw away my devices after 10 or 12 years of their purchase.

16 years seems reasonable, I definitely don’t plan to keep using my devices for that long, but hopefully it will stay there and the next time Apple cuts support for iCloud or other features, will keep doing it on system versions that are 9 or 10 years old.

 

[TechnicalMac]

Long support and also since no Macs are actually losing access due to the fact that they can be upgraded to next version, this is not going to cause any issue for customers.

Not so fast, there. Two Saturdays ago I suspected this (that Apple made some backend changes to iCloud) because suddenly ALL my devices stopped sending/receiving iMessage. I still received SMS, but none were forwarded to any of my Macs, and even my iPhone (iOS 17.7 at the time) eventually dropped. All devices were affected, not just Sierra, but probably caused by "challenge responses" to my Sierra testing devices. iCloud.com login became intermittent, but https://account.apple.com/sign-in still worked.

I run a variety of devices from Lion through Sequoia expressly to identify when these sorts of problems occur. Took me three Apple Support calls—all of whom denied that Apple was making any changes—and their only "support" was to turn everything off and wait 48 hours. Took me until two days ago to get even one device reliably logged in. Now I know it's a conscious choice by Apple, but this did cause an issue for me, and I expect it. I'm equipped to deal with it. Others won't be so lucky, and if they keep hammering on it without upgrading, they'll remain partially or completely offline.

Indeed, digital permanence is an oxymoron. I don't begrudge Apple for moving on, and I applaud them for holding on as long as they do with some devices and services, but when I can run an up-to-date Linux distro on 2008 hardware that Apple has long dropped, it does give one pause to consider what Apple could do if they slowed their timetables, and invested into software what they already do into hardware. Personally, I'd rather have a semi-supported legacy Mac, than a brand-new transparent/invisible UI.

 

[Populus]

High Sierra already lost App Store support.

What?? I didn’t know this… are you sure?

This would be yet another reason to get the apps from outside the Mac App Store, but honestly I love buying my apps there, first because the convenience, and second, and perhaps more important, because of the mandatory app sandboxing in there.

 

[TechnicalMac]

What?? I didn’t know this… are you sure?

I just tested App Store under Sierra (not High Sierra) and was able to download older, compatible, previously-purchased apps, and browse the store. Most apps won't run under Sierra, but I was able to look at many of them. Perhaps that is what the comment was referencing, that few apps are available for said OS? Would be nice if the App Store would categorize/offer a list of compatible apps for the OS one is currently using.

My preference is always "outside" apps. In fact, several apps I've bought on the MAS often don't work as well, and I have gone back to the dev and gotten the non-MAS version. Highly recommend!

 

[BugeyeSTI]

What?? I didn’t know this… are you sure?

This would be yet another reason to get the apps from outside the Mac App Store, but honestly I love buying my apps there, first because the convenience, and second, and perhaps more important, because of the mandatory app sandboxing in there.

I just updated a few apps on my High Sierra machine yesterday using the app store. There's no OS support but app updates still work.

 

[throAU]

Security is just an excuse to make us renew devices, preferable yearly.

Bollocks. They're dropping support for ~10 year old stuff. This isn't blocking icloud from even big sur, or mojave. its freaking sierra.

People who actually use these devices for work, who have actual important data on them value their security.

Neither apple or anyone else can carry on support for broken software from a decade ago.

 

[Cameront9]

I was just going through some old boxes this weekend. Found a lot of my work stored on formats I can no longer access; [amongst others] ZIP disks (remember those?), CD-R, even some older SATA drives I pulled from a Drobo (ha!) and other enclosures. What do I do with that stuff? Made me realize permanence, especially in digital, is a myth. But I totally hear, and mostly agree with, your point about the cloud.

Now I’m curious to hear other users’ backup strategies. Sadly, I haven’t thought much about it of late…

ZIP discs can be read on a modern mac with a USB Zip drive, I believe, depending on the format of the ZIP disks. Not sure about write support. CD-R can still be read on a Modern Mac as well.

Hell, you can plug in a USB Floppy drive and still read floppies on a modern mac.

 

[erihp]

Dislike. I just put a new battery in my (almost forgotten) 2016 MBP, which is running smoothly again, very nice.

As I am switching to 'battery less computing' (read: Mac mini), I want to have a lightweight macbook for occasional on the go, for which an old macbook is perfect. However, not being able to access cloud content is a bit ridiculous. Cloud should be nothing more than safe remote storage, not yet another mechanism to force hardware to become obsolete and outdated. IMO this is marketing and bad for environment, another symptom of our 'commercial throw away society'.

use open core legacy patcher to update to a supported os.

 

[seek3r]

ZIP discs can be read on a modern mac with a USB Zip drive, I believe, depending on the format of the ZIP disks.

They can, did that last week

Not sure about write support. CD-R can still be read on a Modern Mac as well.

Yup, you can still burn cds from finder

Hell, you can plug in a USB Floppy drive and still read floppies on a modern mac.

Yup, part of the reason is just like zip disks they present as a general block device, the tiny bit of extra code to recognize floppies as floppies, an icon, and some minor behavior tweaks arent exactly difficult to maintain given the that, it costs apple basically nothing to continue the support, and there’s zero security issues that could crop up that wouldnt have to be fixed anyway

 

[JohannesO]

I just tested App Store under Sierra (not High Sierra) and was able to download older, compatible, previously-purchased apps, and browse the store. Most apps won't run under Sierra, but I was able to look at many of them. Perhaps that is what the comment was referencing, that few apps are available for said OS? Would be nice if the App Store would categorize/offer a list of compatible apps for the OS one is currently using.

My preference is always "outside" apps. In fact, several apps I've bought on the MAS often don't work as well, and I have gone back to the dev and gotten the non-MAS version. Highly recommend!

🤔 How do you do that? I can't even log in, whereas I can in Sequoia.

Mac App Store Stops Working on Older macOS Versions

Mac users running macOS Mojave (10.14) and earlier versions are reporting widespread issues accessing the Mac App Store, with many unable to sign in...

www.macrumors.com

 

[JohannesO]

The App Store is pretty brain-dead. I have a file copy utility I got from it and use on High Sierra. A new version of the utility was released and the update was installed to my High Sierra machine... except the new version requires a higher version of macOS. I can't run the new version, and there doesn't seem to be a way to roll back to the older version that was compatible. if the Mac can tell the minimum OS version needed for an app there's no reason the App Store shouldn't be tracking this as well, and not installing apps on machines that can't support them.

I am regularly prompted to update some of my apps, but the App Store on High Sierra refuses to let me log in. I have the same account on Sequoia and it works fine there.

Mac App Store Stops Working on Older macOS Versions

Mac users running macOS Mojave (10.14) and earlier versions are reporting widespread issues accessing the Mac App Store, with many unable to sign in...

www.macrumors.com

 

[JohannesO]

What?? I didn’t know this… are you sure?

This would be yet another reason to get the apps from outside the Mac App Store, but honestly I love buying my apps there, first because the convenience, and second, and perhaps more important, because of the mandatory app sandboxing in there.

There is no way for me to login, whereas I can in Sequoia. Parts of the interface are missing too.
I'm not alone:

Mac App Store Stops Working on Older macOS Versions

Mac users running macOS Mojave (10.14) and earlier versions are reporting widespread issues accessing the Mac App Store, with many unable to sign in...

www.macrumors.com

 

[sotosoul]

iMessage isn't part of iCloud, it's a protocol. iCloud portion only used to backup the messages OTA.

Obviously there's an iMessage protocol but the thing marketed as "iMessage" is a service, and it includes the additional (and optional) "Messages in iCloud" service.

What I understand from reading the support document and the hyperlink iMessage points to is that the entire service marketed as iMessage is no longer available for iOS <11. Same with iCloud Drive!

The thot plickens

 

[JosephAW]

Fortunately for those devices you can still use an older version of iTunes to load apps that we’ve saved, still have an iPhone 4s that’s working great as a clock app with fish. 🐟⏰📱