My problem isn't how much they spend, but what they've been spending it on. How about some great R&D on Macs?
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Apple Drops Prices on MacBook Air and Mac Mini SSD Upgrades, Lowers Cost of 64GB Mac Pro RAM Price
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Surely with HD upgrade prices like that it should come with a complimentary case of champagne.
It does - and they're drinking it now, as we speak, in Cupertino. And it's a necessary tool of the trade there, puts them in the right mood for designing even more fun emojis, and more colorful watch bands and phone cases. As has been mentioned above, they spend a lot on R&D.
OK, enough of my cynicism. Apple appears to be a very successful company today, their stock is going up again, and all signs are that they'll probably continue that way for some time. But I have a big, very irking, very disappointing beef: they seem to care less and less about what the company was originally built around, and what made them so successful in the first place: COMPUTERS. There was a time in living memory (OK, I'm not the youngest guy around) when Apples, then Macs, were the best, most innovative, most user-friendly and coolest products around. Back then, elegance had at least as much to do with what was under the hood as how the hood looked. When somebody asked me what to buy, I wholeheartedly recommended a Mac; I'm less wholehearted today, though I still prefer Macs to the alternatives. I sense that Macs are slowly becoming legacy products, and don't quite fit Apple's newer business model. Their components today are mostly dated, and it seems like they're satisfied to present, with fanfare, new colors. They no longer make the premium product which deserves the premium price they still charge. I won't stop bitching about this wherever and whenever I can until they get back into the business of making really great, capable computers again - which they surely could.
omg Peperino we finally agree on something!!
You nailed it. Like all well run businesses, Apple prices at “what the market will bear.” It’s all about finding the price that will maximize profit.
Apple has high upgrade prices because they can get it—some customers are willing to pay those prices. Those who buy a 2 or 4TB SSD or maxed out memory are obviously willing to pay the price Apple asks.
But understand that high-priced isn’t the same as overpriced. If customers thought it was too expensive, and didn’t think it was “worth it”, they wouldn’t buy it. As long as Apple is selling the number of upgrades they want to sell, they’re not overpriced.
You should actually be thankful that those high-priced upgrades exist. They’re mostly purchased by business and corporate customers who are relatively cost-insensitive. The higher-priced upgrades actually subsidize the low-priced models. If Apple weren’t raking in the higher margin from those expensive upgrades, they’d have to charge more for the entry level model(s), so they could still hit their overall target margin.
If what Apple is delivering are high priced computers with specs that are not up to the price, then the products are overpriced. For example the Macbooks PRO are way overpriced.
As you can see lately, due to that specific reason that more and more users are considering that most Apple products are overpriced (or high priced for what the will be paying), Macbook sales are declining and less users are not upgrading as often as they used to. Is Apple still selling computer upgrades, yes. Are they selling as much as they can, Not even close. And you can see how many users are keep being dissapointed with the pathetic upgrades we have seen this week.
Should I be thankful that Apple wants to rip me and its customers, forcing them to buy way overpriced RAM and SSD prices because they decided to do a LAME design of disposable computers, and soldered them to the Logic board?
I do not think so.
And your thought that of selling a few expensive models would subsidize the rest of the cheaper model is pathetic.
What happens is Apple sells very few high end models. Would they be losing money?
In the past, all Macbooks models were upgradable, and I do not think they were subsidizing the lower end models by with the most expensive ones. The only reason Apple is doing this now, is due to plain greed and to milk more money out of its customers.
I really do think Apple is starting to lose touch, particularly based on some of the options included for people.
Maybe it's just all of the $500k+ salary employees and multimillionaire upper management that can't grasp why $700 for a 1TB SSD isn't trivial to most people.
Bundling an iMac with a 5400rpm spinning disk is beyond insulting at this point.
Want to keep costs down? How about using non-NVME SSDs for 1/2 the cost?
Maybe it's just all of the $500k+ salary employees and multimillionaire upper management that can't grasp why $700 for a 1TB SSD isn't trivial to most people.
Bundling an iMac with a 5400rpm spinning disk is beyond insulting at this point.
Want to keep costs down? How about using non-NVME SSDs for 1/2 the cost?
Yes, Apple is losing touch (and I'm sad as hell about it) - but only with us, those of us who feel computers are important and useful, and great Macs would be best of all - as they once were. Apple actually seems to be doing quite well in other areas - sort-of-computers using iOS in various sizes and packages and various accessories for these, all kinds of digital content and services, most recently including banking, and probably self-driving cars and such. Real computers have begun to be a legacy product, an afterthought, and may ultimately become no more than part of a Wiki article about Apple and its history. The needs and wishes of us computer users are no longer important to Apple's business model. Sic transit ...
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Sounds like you have a persecution complex. Furthermore, your meme is past its sell-by date.
Just in the last 9 months, Apple has updated the 13” and 15” MacBook Pro, Mac mini, MacBook Air, and the iMac lineup. That’s approximately 95% of Mac unit sales. Within the next nine months, Apple will (finally!) update the Mac Pro and release new monitor product(s).
If you want the old pre-iPod Apple back that sold 3-4 million Macs a year, good luck. That Apple is dead, dead, dead. Apple is now selling 18+ million Macs a year—5 times what they sold in the “good old days”; the Mac is more popular than ever and its $25 billion a year revenue alone would make it nearly a Fortune 100 company.
People have been complaining about Mac prices for 35 years. Yes, they’re expensive but strangely enough, customers understand their value and are willing to pay the price Apple asks... go figure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, PickUrPoison, we differ substantially. Every one of the new Macs you mention (a) should’ve been updated long ago, and (b) should, if Apple were as interested in quality today as they once were, have the much better, cutting-edge innards which are available today.
What you say about numbers of Macs sold and Apple’s income belies the fact that Mac market share is dropping. The good old days were better days for Macs. The products were fantastic (quality and reliability), especially compared to the competition, and they deserved the premium prices they asked. That’s simply no longer true. As a business, Apple is doing fine, but it’s not due to overwheling Mac sales.
As to your assessment of me: I don’t believe Apple has singled me out for some sadistic reason, refusing to sell me some great stuff which they offer to others. I do believe that Apple has stopped seeing Macs as an important product, disappointing Mac users generally - but not, apparently, you.
As for my “meme”: while I’m not sure what you’re referring to, the fact is that at my age, pretty much everything about me is past my sell-by date. But I’m still ticking along, defying the odds.
BTW, PUP, your really upbeat views of Apple's offerings wouldn't be at all related to the fact that you seem to live just 3 miles from their corporate headquarters, would it?
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Go figure you are one of the very few in this forum excusing Apple for ther high pathetic pricing, and lack of innovation.
That they updated in the last 9 months does mean nothing. Despite the Mac Mini (70% more expensive) They only did internal upgrades.
Update cycles have become ridiculuous (4-6 years).
The ENTIRE Macbook Pro line up is a joke, with a useless keyboard, no mag safe, not upgradable. Sadly, Apple has decided to create disposable appliances rather than computers. furthermore, almost 95% of users thinks that they are overpriced and underspec so much so that companies are switching to Surface.
iMac upgrades are only internal and was not upgraded in the past 10 years.
Sorry, but long time Apple users are tired of waiting for Apple to come with decent computer products (look that I am not even ask for innovation), so much so that small companies are actually building hackingtoshes rather than buying iMacs Pros or 6 year old Mac Pro.
That they have reveneus, does not mean that the computer line up is fine. Most of the revenues are coming from iPhones (65%) and services.
Market share is not dropping, and in fact has been increasing. Easy to see why if you look at unit sales in the chart below, while realizing that at the same time PC sales have dropped from 350 million/year to 250 million/year during the period 2011 to 2018.
Persecution complex:As to your assessment of me: I don’t believe Apple has singled me out for some sadistic reason, refusing to sell me some great stuff which they offer to others. I do believe that Apple has stopped seeing Macs as an important product, disappointing Mac users generally - but not, apparently, you.
As for my “meme”: while I’m not sure what you’re referring to, the fact is that at my age, pretty much everything about me is past my sell-by date. But I’m still ticking along, defying the odds.
- an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
The expired meme I’m referring to is your basic “Apple doesn’t care about the Mac” lament. You may not like the models or configurations, but that’s not particularly relevant. Mac sales have been doing better than ever, especially over the last five years. Apparently, I’m not the only one that isn’t disappointed with Macs.
Sure, the reality distortion field generator is more powerful the closer one’s proximity to the spaceship. I’m sure that’s much more likely than, say, making a fortune by investing in Apple for decades.
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The expired meme I’m referring to is your basic “Apple doesn’t care about the Mac” lament. You may not like the models or configurations, but that’s not particularly relevant. Mac sales have been doing better than ever, especially over the last five years. Apparently, I’m not the only one that isn’t disappointed with Macs.
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Sorry, but how is Apple sales doing better than ever if in from 2010 to 2015 they almost doubled in units, while clearly after 2016 when the new design came out unit sales droppedby 10%???
1) A few dozen or even a hundred trolls on an Apple fan site aren’t proof that “more and more users are considering that most Apple products are overpriced”. Computer upgrade cycles have been lengthening for a decade or more, just like smartphones have over the last few years. That’s what happens when products begin to reach maturity.
2) And sure, RAM/SSD upgrades are expensive. High priced, no doubt. However, they are not too expensive, or overpriced. High priced is a neighborhood of $1,000,000 homes. Overpriced is that guy who wants $1.2 million and it’s been sitting there six months, still unsold, while others have been selling within a few weeks at a million.
3) Your claim that users are disappointed and not buying Macs is contradicted by the facts. Since Cook has become CEO, unit sales have done extremely well, after years and years of disappointing sales in the single-digit millions. Look at the chart in my post #162 above. The last five years have been the highest ever, in the history of Macs. What a tremendous success Cook has brought to Macintosh!
4) Apple’s pricing—especially for memory upgrades—has always been high; people have been complaining about that for 35+ years. Where have you been? And whether you choose to accept the fact or not, upgrades have always effectively subsidized the lower-priced/base model SKUs; they boost average gross margin for the model lineup as a whole. If upgrades were cheaper, base model pricing would have to be more expensive in order to achieve the desired average margin. That’s just simple math, right? What’s pathetic is not my understanding this, nor your failure to do so, but rather your continual overuse of that word
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It’s rather obvious, isn’t it? Yikes, ok I’ll walk you through it:
1) First of all, sales didn’t almost double between 2010 to 2015, they increased 50%. But whatever.
2) From 2011-2018, sales averaged 18.3 million units, with relatively little variation, about +/- 12% (approx. 2 million units).
3) Don’t blame the slightly down 2016 on the newest generation MBP—it didn’t drop until late October, which is in 2017 (Apple’s year runs from 1 October through 30 September). The 2015 MBP models were sold for the entire 12 months of 2016. So you disproved your own point that you were trying to make, that the new generation MBP caused the 2016 sales decrease. Sales did rebound a bit in 2017, subsequent to the 2016 and 2017 MBP being available.
4) The last five years have been the highest unit sales ever. In 2017 Apple recorded their highest Mac revenue ever, $25.9 billion. 2018 was a near-record $25.2 billion.
You don’t have to like the current lineup, but that’s not relevant, is it? Apple’s actual customers are voting with their dollars. That this is counter to your opinion doesn’t change the facts. Stay tuned as I rip apart another reply to me you posted.
1) A few dozen or even a hundred trolls on an Apple fan site aren’t proof that “more and more users are considering that most Apple products are overpriced”. Computer upgrade cycles have been lengthening for a decade or more, just like smartphones have over the last few years. That’s what happens when products begin to reach maturity.
2) And sure, RAM/SSD upgrades are expensive. High priced, no doubt. However, they are not too expensive, or overpriced. High priced is a neighborhood of $1,000,000 homes. Overpriced is that guy who wants $1.2 million and it’s been sitting there six months, still unsold, while others have been selling within a few weeks at a million.
3) Your claim that users are disappointed and not buying Macs is contradicted by the facts. Since Cook has become CEO, unit sales have done extremely well, after years and years of disappointing sales in the single-digit millions. Look at the chart in my post #162 above. The last five years have been the highest ever, in the history of Macs. What a tremendous success Cook has brought to Macintosh!
4) Apple’s pricing—especially for memory upgrades—has always been high; people have been complaining about that for 35+ years. Where have you been? And whether you choose to accept the fact or not, upgrades have always effectively subsidized the lower-priced/base model SKUs; they boost average gross margin for the model lineup as a whole. If upgrades were cheaper, base model pricing would have to be more expensive in order to achieve the desired average margin. That’s just simple math, right? What’s pathetic is not my understanding this, nor your failure to do so, but rather your continual overuse of that word
2) Utter rubbish. When you can buy a 2TB Samsung NVME for $527 https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-1TB-MZ-V7E1T0BW/dp/B07C8Y31G1/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=Samsung+1TB+nvme&qid=1555263147&s=gateway&sr=8-4&th=1 instead of the ridiculous $1200 that Apple charges and they don’t even give you credit for the 256gb they took out. It’s not 20% overpriced as in your sample it’s over 100% overpriced
4)I’ve been buying Apple computers for more than 15 years and it wasn’t bad before as you can circumvent the company store syndrome buying 3rd party and putting it in. Soldered memory and storage killed that option..
I can write off my Apple computers so it takes away some of the sting, but many posters here can’t.
The rabid posters here who claim that Apple did it to reduce errors, warranty returns, and packaging issues are drinking the kool-aid too much as many PC manufacturers are able to build thinner and lighter PC laptops while still using industry standard SODIMMS and M.2 NVME SSD’s
The main and simple reason is plain greed and as long as people buy it, they will continue to do so. PC manufacturers can’t do it as there’s always someone who will undercut them. Apple doesn’t have this problem.
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It is not trolls, but facts that support that Apple products are overpriced.
- That is why Apple is lowering iPhone prices in Japan, China and India.
- MAc sales are down year over year since 2016.
- And many trusted reviewers supporting with FACTS agree that the Macbook design 2016+ is one of the worse designs ever and way overpriced.
- Mac Mini they rose the price 70% keeping a 4 year old external design (i know you are going to excuse with the value of the internal redesign...which is pointless and not worth of 70% increase).
- Smartphones still were upgraded every year. so your quote is incorrect.
This tells me everyting about you, that you simply know nothing. Comparing houses to computer is like comparing fruits to refrigerators.
What facts? look at the facts above. Mac unit sales are done Year over years as well as ipads.
And you are going to say that MAturity blah, blah, blah...
Lot of users are simply NOT upgrading cause they consider that the Macbook Pro is BAD.
4) Apple’s pricing—especially for memory upgrades—has always been high; people have been complaining about that for 35+ years. Where have you been? And whether you choose to accept the fact or not, upgrades have always effectively subsidized the lower-priced/base model SKUs; they boost average gross margin for the model lineup as a whole. If upgrades were cheaper, base model pricing would have to be more expensive in order to achieve the desired average margin. That’s just simple math, right? What’s pathetic is not my understanding this, nor your failure to do so, but rather your continual overuse of that word
This shows how little you know about Apple. IN the past, although Apple overcharge for their own RAM and HD, users were able to buy 3rd party and upgrade themselves, like in the old Macbooks and Mac Pro (chees grater).
Thank god you are NOT running Apple, since the based computer are NOT subsidized. Your reasoning does not make sense whatsoever.
Apple changed its design of soldering almost everything internally, creating pathetic disposable appliances rather than computers.
The only reason is to rip more money out of its customers. Plain and simple.
By soldering components, not only they are forcing users to buy Apple's ridiculously overpriced RAM and SSD, which they can buy for less tham half of the cost, but it also creates many more problems.
Third party RAM and SSD have been used before by both Mac and PC users without any issue whatsoever. So please do not comment back with the excuse that soldering makes computers more safe and secure, because they are Not.
Actually soldering components only makes computers more prone to failure and way more expensive to repair (if they are repairable at all).
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According to your own posting, In 2008 Apple sold 9.72m units.
in 2015 they sold 20.59m
In my world, that is over 100%
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Obviously, PUP and I see the same world, but at least some of it quite differently.
What’s making headlines, and what are Apple’s WOW items, the stuff they're crowing about? New phones (also declining sales, lower revenue, lower prices), services (Apple Pay, Apple Music, Apple TV), AirPods, HomeKit, store openings (and Apple’s architecture), iPad and iOS stuff, wearables, incl. Apple Watch, privacy issues. Then there are the lawsuits.
What do we hear about computers (Macs)? Pretty much nothing (well, a little about the iMac) except for lower prices offered all over. Oh ... not to forget the indispensable Touch Bar, Dark Mode, and a new OS which will render some of my apps useless. Not even rumors about some fantastic state-of-the-art machine which we would eagerly look forward to.
Looks to me like Apple’s a pretty solid business, making lots of money despite some disappointments. But Macs are no longer Apple’s pride and joy. Or interest. Since my love of Apple is based on Macs, and most of the other stuff doesn't interest me at all, my passion's fading.
What’s making headlines, and what are Apple’s WOW items, the stuff they're crowing about? New phones (also declining sales, lower revenue, lower prices), services (Apple Pay, Apple Music, Apple TV), AirPods, HomeKit, store openings (and Apple’s architecture), iPad and iOS stuff, wearables, incl. Apple Watch, privacy issues. Then there are the lawsuits.
What do we hear about computers (Macs)? Pretty much nothing (well, a little about the iMac) except for lower prices offered all over. Oh ... not to forget the indispensable Touch Bar, Dark Mode, and a new OS which will render some of my apps useless. Not even rumors about some fantastic state-of-the-art machine which we would eagerly look forward to.
Looks to me like Apple’s a pretty solid business, making lots of money despite some disappointments. But Macs are no longer Apple’s pride and joy. Or interest. Since my love of Apple is based on Macs, and most of the other stuff doesn't interest me at all, my passion's fading.
Apple noted on their financial call that they would have sold more Macs last quarter if Intel had been able to deliver the CPUs they needed to put in them so the drop in sales is not solely to the entire line being "overpriced" or "outdated" or "poor value".
CWallace, I like your spirit. But I think the key words in your post are “not solely”. The undelivered CPUs would, of course, have gone into Macs. But have you seen what’s happening to Mac sales? They’re not exactly selling like hotcakes. Why do you think one store after another is offering discounts, increasingly large discounts, on Macs they can’t otherwise get off their shelves. And, for the sake of completeness, that’s not because everyone’s holding off because they’ve heard that a newer, even more attractive model is in the works. All the Macs currently produced or promised are pretty ho-hum, and ho-hum can’t command the prices Apple’s currently demanding.
The entire PC industry is seeing lower sales and you can find plenty of sales on PC OEM models that they can't otherwise get off their shelves. Apple has also seen strong iPad revenue growth since the new iPad Pros have launched so there is likely a correlation there where iPad Pros were purchased instead of Mac portables.
All that being said, one area that is clearly having a detrimental impact on Mac (laptop) sales are the continuing keyboard issues. Regardless of how many actual unit failures are being recorded by Apple, the public perception is that it is a significant number of devices affected and there is direct evidence that this is putting people off on buying a Mac portable as well as forcing people who are seeing multiple issues with their keyboards having to switch from an MBP to an earlier model or a PC OEM model.
I just bought a 960gb Corsair MP510 NVM M.2 SSD for £130 for a gaming PC; it actually has better all-round performance, and a full five year warranty (you can write to it at max speed all day everyday for just under five years and it's still covered).
Even with the reductions in price upgrading a Mac Mini from 250gb to 1tb is still £360, nearly three times the price of a better drive. Even the somewhat overpriced Samsung 970 Evo Pro is around a third cheaper, assuming you need some of its features (e.g- Opal 2 if that's required for Apple's hardware encryption, which seems unclear to me).
The Mac Mini could very clearly have accommodated an M.2 slot (multiple, actually) and had its storage not only be a fraction of the price, but also as easily upgraded as the RAM.
It's like Apple doesn't want me to ever buy another Mac Mini, which is insane, as I've been using them since the first one came out, but haven't been able to upgrade since about 2011 (hence the current Hack Mini, before anyone asks).
IT is not just with the Mac Mini. THe entire Macbook Air and Pro line have become non-upgradable, disposable computers.
Users are tired of being ripped off by Apple's ridiculously insane storage and Ram upgrade pricings. And users clearly have been voting with their wallets.
Apple marketing technique is to deliver barely usable specs like 8GB Ram -128GB SSD. We are in 2019 not in 2012.
Not only users are tired of basic unusable overpriced computers, but by soldering all components, it actually creates more trash and creates more expensive repairs (if you actually are able to repair it at all).