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The real reason is Apple is behind in most aspects in Smartphone market.

1. Poor displays (Dull colours and glare issues) People don't care about XDR and fancy terms.
2. Poor Battery life
3. Slow charging speed
4. No easy way to transfer downloaded random files from iPhone to PC/Mac
5. Basic cheap non-Pro models artificially limited to 60hz while $250 androids are pushing 120hz
6. Brand fatigue
7. Patriotism and feeling amongst Chinese that USA = Bad
Bingo.
I suspect the downvotes are coming from people who disagree with a minor point above, but the gist is spot on. (I don't think Apple displays are bad at all, and I actively DO NOT WANT faster charging which wears down my battery quicker. Besides put in a decent sized battery and you only ever need to charge overnight anyway. And "brand fatigue" is just silly).

My primary phone is an Apple, but I have an excellent Xiaomi. Take a look at the Xiaomi Note 13 Pro:

  • 6.7" Screen with 446 PPI, Gorilla Glass
  • 120 Hz AMOLED with Dolby Vision, 500/1200 nits brightness
  • Dual SIM
  • 8-16 GB RAM
    SSD storage costs about 1/4 that of Apple's
  • 3 rear cameras with dual LED flash, one front camera, 0.7" sensor
  • 3.5mm headphone jack
  • 5,100 mAh battery
  • $227 on AliExpress

$227. Yeah I like IOS better as well, but it's not 4 times better. Android is not as user friendly for me, but it has evolved to the point where it is VERY usable. For $227.

Apple better hope they nailed it with their AI, or else more and more are gonna pick the Android phones with better specs for a fraction of the price. If a phone takes good pictures, has a strong battery life, and a pretty screen, people are gonna buy it. Android does all this.

Funny, I've never heard of Vivo before. I think Xiaomi is actually the #1 phone producer worldwide when you consider their multiple brands together (like Poco). Apple is probably still #1 in sales measured in currency, not units.
 
Apple will alwayswin the "but who makes the most profit" contest because the premium is real and STEEP (see RAM & SSD pricing relative to market). However, we consumers do NOT win by being the ones "but who pays the most corporate margin" consumers.

Yeah, it's silly to assume that "only profit margin matters" or "only market share matters." The reality is there are benefits to both, and drawbacks if one takes one strategy over another.

Just as one example, the lower market share of Apple phones is why things like WhatsApp and all the various inferior messaging products exist -- because only a fraction of the cell phone market uses imessage.

Certain products need a high product adoption rate to be successful (ie Apple Pay, FaceTime, etc.).
One could argue that the reason we still use USB today and not firewire (which is a newer protocol) is because the adoption rate of firewire was never high enough to make it a universal standard.

The reality is both market share and profit margin are important; obviously firms take different strategies, prioritizing one over another.
 
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Photo quality and raw video is more important than more pixels.

You might get an extra hour battery life with a **** competitor but you’re getting a CPU 40% slower.

Nothing touches the iPhone in terms of getting quality and performance right.
There are Android phones with battery life several times that of the iPhone.
If you go to grab your phone, and the battery is dead, you get no photo at all.
And Android phones now take photos and videos which look very nice.

There were 52 Android phones released in the last year with a 7,000 mAh battery or larger.

Iphone tops out at 4422 for the 15 Pro Max.

My iphone is often in the red / nearly shutting down by the afternoon. A phone is useless if it can't last a full day. Battery life is probably the #1 thing that has me prevaricating on whether to stick with Apple this September. Especially since battery cases for the iPhone are harder and harder to find.
 
We have a wrong idea about China and the Chinese. We have that "cheap labour", "not so wealthy" idea about China created by our media. China and the Chinese had gone a long way, much further than the so-called West. If you'd go to a Chinese shop with phones, you'd notice that the iPhone just sits in a small area with few phones, 3-4 models while the others cover a lot of area. That goes in any such shop in the EU too, and in any country of Asia. iPhone is just one mobile phone in a sea of phones.

So, if the iPhone still holds the 6th place in sales in China, it tells something, but that place won't be there that long. And, most probably iPhones are much cheaper in China than in the US.
I have no doubts about the rise and expansion of the middle class in China, they have been working very hard on trying to keep their economy humming and expanding, it’s in their best interests to help the average Chinese citizen prosper, while keeping a lid on the wealthiest Chinese millionaires and above lest they become too wealthy or corrupt or powerful and become too independent of the government’s oversight.

According to various web sources, the “average” annual salary of Chinese workers is about $1700-$3800/month or about $20,400-$45,600/year. Of course, hundreds of millions make much less and a tens of millions make much more depending on their location, education, status, and work jobs. Certainly city and urban workers within tech and banking sectors make much more than their industrial, construction, mining, and farming counterparts.

The cost of living in China is much lower than it is in developed countries so in many ways their income can go much further and many people have decent housing, transport (car or cycle of some type, or rely on extensive and well developed local public transport). Certainly, the boom in Chinese adoption of personal electronics over the past 12 years or so mirrors the west.

But the Chinese consumer has been hit with many issues before, during, and after the pandemic, and China’s economy has also been hit, hard, with slowdowns in demand, mass construction of housing that has not been finished or now abandoned as financing, loans, and the banking sector has been hit with corruption, bankruptcies, and loss of confidence, very reminiscent of the US’s mortgage meltdown of 2008 and its aftermath. Over the last two years China has struggled like the rest of the world to stabilize its economy and regain its growth, concurrently trying to expand new sectors like EV manufacturing, tech, semiconductors, and contract manufacturing.

With this prosperity though comes the downside. As wages go up, costs rise for companies who have built in China. This then makes manufacturing in China more costly compared to other up and coming economies like Vietnam, Indonesia and India. Even though China has well established and extensive supply chains, they are getting more expensive all the time and face competition from other regions who are learning fast and being invested in even by Chinese companies like Foxconn, Pegatron, Luxshare and the like. Samsung closed their China factories back in 2018 and moved their low cost smartphone production to Vietnam and India, but has continued to contract with some Chinese ODMs for their low cost A0x series.

Certainly there has been a huge increase in buying power for many Chinese as they have prospered, but their spending has been hit like the West over the past two years.

According to Statista here:


The Chinese smartphone market peaked in terms of sales in 2015-2017 and has trended downward ever since. There was some plateau in 2020-2021 but headed down again through 2023 and has just started to improve in the first half of 2024.

2023’s China smartphone sales were over 270M but this is the lowest point over the past 10 years. The high was 467M in CY2016. That’s almost a 42% drop over 8 years from its peak. Why? Much of that demand was met in the 2015-2018 period, and it’s taking users 3-5 years to upgrade or replace as they are able to afford. New users still buy value. More domestic competition provides more model and price options as you noted. But it appears as China’s economy stalled in 2022-2024, Chinese consumer spending also went down, just as it has been hit in the US and Europe. If the Chinese consumer has done so well, why have smartphone sales fallen until just recently?

While Apple is JUST ONE of literally hundreds of choices in the Chinese market each year, it does have a sizable install base of reasonably brand loyal users and does have the interest and buying power of young 14-25 Chinese consumers. As Chinese iPhone users see their 4-5-6 year old models age, they now have to decide to switch or stay with iPhones.

Apple doesn’t now and doesn’t in the future have to dominate or lead the China market in overall sales, it just has to maintain and lead in the premium segment which it still does currently although there is more competition for various reasons.


I understand the reason why Apple is not more aggressive on pricing in the middle and bottom of the market. The problem with that reasoning in China is that their consumers clearly do not see Apple's premium image. If Apple is serious about competing in one of the most important consumer markets in the world, they're going to have to compete on different terms than they do in the US and Europe.

Competing in China is going to involve being more aggressive on price and not as conservative on pushing new technologies down their lineup. They've got to recognize and deal with the different consumer perceptions on what is a premium product. Additionally, patriotism/jingoism rising as the USA and PRC relationship degrades is a significant headwind.

They probably should start by trying to reframe the iPhone as a true Chinese product instead of leaning of the Designed in California, Made in China concept. Mostly just a corporate propaganda campaign in China. Additionally, they've got to figure out a better balance of margins v. consumer desirability in the Chinese market.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said but I don’t think Apple is going appreciably downmarket because it dilutes their brand, cuts their pricing power if they constantly discount, and it is much less profitable. Expending so much effort for “market share” but little additional revenue or profit gains is a fools errand for Apple. They’ve tried that half heartedly with the iPhone SE models but the competition in that segment is fierce. The recent suggestion or rumor that Apple is working on Foldables for 2026 suggests they will go upmarket in China instead and that’s consistent with its brand, marketing and success.

As for Apple’s image, I think most Chinese KNOW the iPhone is assembled in China, but designed in California/US. To Chinese, California is an enviable and aspirational place, but certainly the government has tied Apple and other US companies to US policies. Ironic isn’t it, attacking Apple while Apple provides billions of dollars in Chinese worker’s wages and jobs, but it’s not the first time politics rules over economic interests. Or that Xi gets points for both at the same time. Meanwhile, nobody notices the Chinese buy literally hundreds of thousands of tons of soybeans, rice, pork bellies, almonds, and other food staples from US sources.

Same goes the other direction, loud US conservatives bash “woke” Apple for “shipping and outsourcing jobs internationally” while “claiming” to be a US company, iPhones are made in China by slave labor (but best assembly wages among all China production, you really think Chinese OEMs can pay more to their assembly workers while trying to sell $100-$400 smartphones?? They have to keep costs low enough to make a profit too.). So Apple can’t please anybody so it’s simpler to just tell the truth, stick to it, and let people individually decide what they want. Sure, maybe there’s some patriotic Chinese buying but it’s more likely simply price and perceived value. As noted below “pragmatic” Chinese buyers buy midrange because that to them is the best value or that’s what they can afford, nothing wrong with that. But Apple caters to higher value customers who DO see value in Apple
Products over the long haul (3-5-7 years) and are willing and able to pay the premium Apple gets. If that really changes, then Apple will have to adjust its product and selling strategies.

If the iPhone, or any other Apple product can only be made in China, then one should really ask, what is this Designed in California talk? Most probably most of it is actually designed in China, and by the Chinese themselves.
The iPhone and most other Apple products ARE designed in California with inputs from regional tech and design centers across the world. In turn, Apple works with its assemblers and supply chain (TSMC, Foxconn, etc.) to source parts, chassis, hardware, subassemblies, and production methods to ensure the supply chain works well, especially at Apple’s sales volume level requirements. Apple’s chips are designed by teams in California, Germany and Israel. The primary integration of parts is done in California based prototyping labs. So yes, some of the Chinese suppliers are involved with helping design pieces and parts and the assembly process, but Apple has the final say and approval. But right now China only supplies about 15% of displays, 0% of modem and CPU chips, 20% of memory chips, 30-50% of camera modules, maybe 50% of batteries, etc. Apple’s supply chain is global so they source from whoever can make what they want, at quality, volume and prices agreeable to Apple and supplier. Wholly made and designed by China? No.

And only made in China?, also no as evidenced by now 15% of iPhones are now made in India from literally zero 6 years ago, a lot of Apple products are also made in Vietnam.

More storage thanks to a microSD slot, dual-SIM pretty much standard outside the US, headphone jack for superior audio to bluetooth, higher refresh rate display in the lower end, foldable (gimmicky or must have, no in between), higher capacity battery, and so on and so forth.

Apple lowering the price of the iPhone in China and it's not selling well is pretty telling. Price ain't as big a factor anymore. People want value. Unlike in the US where the blue/green bubble is the deal breaker. The iPhone is a feature sparse for the asking price.

Given a choice between a Tacoma (can handle any kind of pavement, a workhorse, reliably as the sunrise) and $150K pocket money or a Ferrari (really fast on smooth pavement, looks good, status symbol), practical folks will choose the Tacoma. Most of the Chinese I know are pragmatic folks.
Yep, microSD slot is a decided advantage, yet none of those individual models that have it sell anywhere as many or at the prices as iPhones do. As for dual sims, for those that need them, sure, it’s great. But more and more telecoms worldwide are supporting e-sims and that’s going to render physical sims eventually obsolete. The less trays, openings, electrical contacts, and potential water ingress points the better. Just as checks and physical credit cards have given way to electronic banking and contactless mobile payments, physical and multiple physical sims will eventually fade.


I agree some wired earphones and headphones sound better than Bluetooth earbuds like AirPods, but that means actually spending bigger money for BETTER quality wired like AKG, Sennheiser, etc. instead of the typical $10-40 cheap Asian wired stuff that most non-audiophiles buy. If that works for you and others, great! But and with wired, you get hassles, tangles, knots, catching on everything, ripping out of your ears, dangling wires which looks stupid, and of course, when your wire or connector breaks, you toss them. Face it, most wired headphones and buds ARE CHEAP, look anywhere they are sold, and that’s what they sell on - price, not performance or convenience, plus it’s an OLD Technology from the 70’s through the 90’s. Like it or not, most of the flagships have abandoned them. Wireless audio is good enough to very good for a large segment, especially the premium segment, offers true hands free, wire free listening, and oh yeah, can you ask Siri, make calls, adjust volume, mute with wired buds without pulling your phone and wires out? And what about true switchable noise cancelling instead of just noise isolating with sealing in ear buds? And can your wired earbuds eventually become active hearing aids, Spatial Audio, or can be shared easily to an iPad, other iPhone, car, or Apple TV box, simultaneously even? No? Then really what are they? Dinosaur tech.

Higher refresh rates displays are a distinct marketing advantage for midrange. Beats the old LCD panel of the iPhone SE for sure. But the “high refresh rate” OLED panels you see in midrange phones of necessity and parts prices are cheaper quality panels by design and price because the top of the line panels aren’t affordable at midrange phone prices, not enough margins. And then they are coupled with middle of the road, midperformance chipsets from Samsung, Unisoc, MediaTek, Qualcomm (gotta cut costs there too). Even the super high refresh rate panels found in Android flagships, many are limited and throttled in everyday use. Why? It takes power to run them at high rates and nits, cutting battery life. Yeah, you can adjust it to the way you want but it’s always a compromise. Same the need or want with bigger batteries - wow, 5000mah batteries, all to power extra RAM, more pixels, more nits, more heat but not much more if any improvement in sustained performance and overall daily battery life. That’s why many Qualcomm CPU’s overheat and throttle, requiring all kinds of “innovative” cooling systems and heat management to keep running smoothly lest they jitter and stutter or simply throttle and shut down.

Why is it even though Apple has “smaller” batteries, it has similar or longer battery life compared to larger batteried Android or PC counterparts?
Much more to do with CPU processor performance with highly power efficient designs and chip processes which Apple and TSMC have taken created and advantage of. And yes, all current and recent models of iPhones have some of the best OLED displays Apple can spec and source from Samsung Display. Apparently the 60hz refresh rate hasn’t limited iPhone 14 or 15 sales much if any while the Pro models with 120hz refresh rate sell even better.

I don't disagree with people and particularly the pragmatic Chinese looking for and seeking “value” in their product spending. But features and specs for the average user who is not a technophile are fine but not overwhelmingly influential, the ease of use, integrated ecosystems, resale value, product support, and then yes, pride of ownership still has many Apple supporters.

So much so that in Q4 2023, after iPhone 15 introduction, according to Canalys, Apple had the #1 position with 17.5M sold out of 73.9M total in China, market share of 24%. That helped Apple to ascend to the #1 spot for all of China’s 2023 smartphone market with 51.8M sold and 19% of the 272.5M market, even with Huawei’s Mate introduction in August 2023.



With roughly 17.5+9.7+10.8M (Q1) = 38.0M units so far for Apple’s FY2024, about 13.7M units short of 2023’s iPhone sales.

Apple sold ~10.6M on Q3 2023 so it would take a strong showing for the iPhone 16 to get >13M sales in the Sept. quarter.
 
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…There’s no such thing as too fast charging nor anytime soon.

It also absolutely matters to prosumers and other high-end users of phones
There is no such thing as a "prosumer" or "high-end user" of a smartphone. What you're really talking about is people who can't put their phone down and have terrible usage habits. iPhone is designed to last all day, and it does. For anyone that isn't unhealthy. Charge it over night and you're good to go.
 
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There is no such thing as a "prosumer" or "high-end user" of a smartphone. What you're really talking about is people who can't put their phone down and have terrible usage habits. iPhone is designed to last all day, and it does. For anyone that isn't unhealthy. Charge it over night and you're good to go.
Making a value judgement on someone who needs fast charging because their battery needs a boost mid-day is shortsighted. Apple advertises the pro line as something that can do professional videography. If they need more battery or faster charging is it because they have unhealthy usage habits or just doing their job? Some sales people spend all-day on their phone making calls. Is that unhealthy usage or just doing their job?

Your argument has some blindspots. And even if the battery/charging needs are due to a TikTok obsessed consumers, they're still the customer and the customer is always right even if they're wrong.
 
There is no such thing as a "prosumer" or "high-end user" of a smartphone. What you're really talking about is people who can't put their phone down and have terrible usage habits. iPhone is designed to last all day, and it does. For anyone that isn't unhealthy. Charge it over night and you're good to go.
It’s nonsense to say there’s no such thing as prosumers and completely ignorant of HCI computer science, UX, and marketing/consumer science academia.

People consume and create at a very productive and lucrative level with phones; there’s no denying this towards phones and anything continuous uses for creating benefiting always by faster and robust ways to charge than you care for.
 
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Making a value judgement on someone who needs fast charging because their battery needs a boost mid-day is shortsighted. Apple advertises the pro line as something that can do professional videography. If they need more battery or faster charging is it because they have unhealthy usage habits or just doing their job? Some sales people spend all-day on their phone making calls. Is that unhealthy usage or just doing their job?

Your argument has some blindspots. And even if the battery/charging needs are due to a TikTok obsessed consumers, they're still the customer and the customer is always right even if they're wrong.
Have you ever seen someone who uses an iPhone Pro in a professional videography session? The phone is plugged in the entire time.
 
Having recently spent 2 weeks in China I saw all of the competitors and played with the devices. Huawei, Oppo (including OnePlus), Xiaomi all have physical stores. And all of their flagship devices blow Apple devices out of the water, in my opinion. Samsung and Google too for that matter. Xiaomi and Huawei stores were packed. There wasn't a soul in the Samsung store that I saw. Picked up a global model of Xiaomi 14 for $550 off of Swappa, it's the best Android phone I've used, and I currently use the Galaxy S24+ as my daily phone. If I'd bought it while in mainland China or Hong Kong it would've been $650 U.S. I think the 14 Ultra was $850-ish. That's some serious savings (for someone in the U.S.).

It is a combination of bias against the west, pride in their own companies, innovation, and price that drive people away from Apple over there.
 
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Have you ever seen someone who uses an iPhone Pro in a professional videography session? The phone is plugged in the entire time.
Okay, who cares? It doesn't invalidate my point. Your value judgement doesn't matter for business decision making. There are many circumstances where someone may use exceptional amounts of battery life and I do not accept your premise that is essentially smug virtue signaling.
 
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Tim Cook answers the question during today's con call.

Basically, the answer is Huawei.

Q: On China, was the weakness macro related or related to Apple or domestic competitors?

A: The competitive environment is the most competitive in the world and that remains the case. The macro economic factors have been in the press too, I'm not an expert on those, I can only tell you what we're seeing. We were pleased that the business showed improvement from the first half of the year.
 
Sorry, edited due to Tapatalk App quote issue.

I don’t really buy this.

Huawei might be a competitor in price but price never defeat next level features.

Look at what’s new in the latest iOS, which features are copied from Android.
 
Sorry, edited due to Tapatalk App quote issue.

I don’t really buy this.

Huawei might be a competitor in price but price never defeat next level features.
Huawei is a competitor in everything, and it will be very hard, near impossible to beat the Chinese without having in-country manufacturing.
 
Huawei is a competitor in everything, and it will be very hard, near impossible to beat the Chinese without having in-country manufacturing.

Yeah. You are absolutely right if we talking about competition with China in manufacturing.

Apple won the market with its revolutionary features and way better user experiences. I hope one day that Apple comes back.

BTW: Apple Vision Pro is a new approach.
 
Yeah. You are absolutely right if we talking about competition with China in manufacturing.
When companies go after pure profit, the people of the country those companies come from, goes off manufacturing abilities, and finally become unable to make anything.
Apple won the market with its revolutionary features and way better user experiences. I hope one day that Apple comes back.
Maybe, but those "revolutionary" features are not manufactured in the mother country. So, there's no way surpass China now or in anytime in the future. Huawei is just one company, there are hundreds, maybe thousands more in China.
 
Maybe, but those "revolutionary" features are not manufactured in the mother country. So, there's no way surpass China now or in anytime in the future. Huawei is just one company, there are hundreds, maybe thousands more in China.

True. What I mean is, since competing in manufacturing is not feasible, Apple can only beat Huawei through innovation.
 
Sorry, edited due to Tapatalk App quote issue.

I don’t really buy this.

Huawei might be a competitor in price but price never defeat next level features.

Look at what’s new in the latest iOS, which features are copied from Android.

LOL, the irony is you see Apple competing heavily in price in China these days by offering hundreds off via Tmall and PDD. It’s often cheaper to buy iPhone in China than the U.S.

Apple has mediocre features compared to Huawei. Lacks satellite voice calling and SMS. Camera features and quality are below Huawei. Lacks fast charging, under display fingerprint, and foldable option. All of these features were released on Mate 60 back in August 2023.

“Next level features” already exist today in Pura 70 mechanical aperture. You see Macrumors posters salivating this same feature Apple plans to release in 2026.

There’s a reason why analysts didn’t question Tim Cook when he said the Chinese market is the most competitive in the world.
 
LOL, the irony is you see Apple competing heavily in price in China these days by offering hundreds off via Tmall and PDD. It’s often cheaper to buy iPhone in China than the U.S.

Apple has mediocre features compared to Huawei. Lacks satellite voice calling and SMS. Camera features and quality are below Huawei. Lacks fast charging, under display fingerprint, and foldable option. All of these features were released on Mate 60 back in August 2023.

“Next level features” already exist today in Pura 70 mechanical aperture. You see Macrumors posters salivating this same feature Apple plans to release in 2026.

There’s a reason why analysts didn’t question Tim Cook when he said the Chinese market is the most competitive in the world.

True.

It’s pretty sad to see Apple “featured” something that was on Android years ago.

Pretty sad.
 
Bingo.
I suspect the downvotes are coming from people who disagree with a minor point above, but the gist is spot on. (I don't think Apple displays are bad at all, and I actively DO NOT WANT faster charging which wears down my battery quicker. Besides put in a decent sized battery and you only ever need to charge overnight anyway. And "brand fatigue" is just silly).

My primary phone is an Apple, but I have an excellent Xiaomi. Take a look at the Xiaomi Note 13 Pro:

  • 6.7" Screen with 446 PPI, Gorilla Glass
  • 120 Hz AMOLED with Dolby Vision, 500/1200 nits brightness
  • Dual SIM
  • 8-16 GB RAM
    SSD storage costs about 1/4 that of Apple's
  • 3 rear cameras with dual LED flash, one front camera, 0.7" sensor
  • 3.5mm headphone jack
  • 5,100 mAh battery
  • $227 on AliExpress

$227. Yeah I like IOS better as well, but it's not 4 times better. Android is not as user friendly for me, but it has evolved to the point where it is VERY usable. For $227.

Apple better hope they nailed it with their AI, or else more and more are gonna pick the Android phones with better specs for a fraction of the price. If a phone takes good pictures, has a strong battery life, and a pretty screen, people are gonna buy it. Android does all this.

Funny, I've never heard of Vivo before. I think Xiaomi is actually the #1 phone producer worldwide when you consider their multiple brands together (like Poco). Apple is probably still #1 in sales measured in currency, not units.
You forgot about the best part… since the chip is Chinese, they own you..
you know they’re spying on you, right?
 
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