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MS has been at 256 kb/s for a while now. (Actually I think from the beginning.) I purchased a single track off of Urge. The sound is much richer then Apple's 128kb/s. I'm not an audiophile so I don't know the technical terms for it. I just was doing a comparison. At 256 I'm pretty sure both will be indistinguishable. The big difference now is DRM 256 vs. no DRM 256. Read: Now theoretically you can buy music on iTMS and use it on any player that supports AAC vs. MS where you are still stuck.

PS- Does anyone know how we know which tracks we can upgrade? Its not like I can go through my iTMS purchases and instantly know that HEY! That's and EMI track there...:confused:
 
I must say I'm quite surprised at the generally positive response most of you are having to this.

I'm sorry guys, but this really should've been a "free" enhancement. 256k really should be the standard (and please don't say that Apple needs that much extra cash for the additional bandwidth), and it probably costs Apple LESS to not have to apply Fairplay.

The fact that we have to pay additional money to NOT have our tracks crippled is setting a really, really bad precedent. This would've been a huge step forward if it didn't cost extra. As long as there's any sort of tradeoff in order to not have music that I paid be crippled, then they still don't get it.

I find this really disappointing. Sell us our tracks without DRM and don't make us pay extra for the "privilege" and then you've got something, because at that point it means that you get it. Not until then.

Come on guys, this isn't a good thing. It's a step sideways.

You're joking, right?

Let's look at this.

You could pay 79p (in the UK) for a lower quality file, that doesn't matter if it gets shared because you're only allowed to bung it on 5 computers, and the quality's good but not brilliant.

OR

You could pay 99p for a higher quality track... Would you really want to then take the file that you've paid a premium for and slap it onto the internet? No. You've paid more for that track so you're not going to want to share it with people. I know for a fact that I don't want to be sending files I've paid for all the way round the world. I've licensed my 5 iTunes libraries, I know who's computers they are and I don't have a problem with them listening to stuff I've bought. Aside from the 3 people who've got my library authorised, I'm not going to let anyone else have my files. There's a degree of trust involved in this, but I can guarantee you, there's some watermarking in the new files that will be able to identify people who upload their purchases.
 
I'm afraid I disagree. Very high frequencies definitely seem to lose something on my 128k AAC tracks, normally with cymbals, most notably on the hi-hat. I don't really notice anything at 160k unless you were to play it on a cd straight after where there is a definite loss of...how can I put this technically...OOOOMPH!

I agree with you. The vast majority of my collection is in 192k right now, because I can hear the difference in the hi-hats. Trance fans will nod their heads in agreement, as they can easily tell the difference in the two rates just by hearing a TR-909 open hi-hat.
 
ok, so you can play music from itunes on your tv, on your ipod, on your computer, there's not a huge problem with DRM there besides being able to share with your friends, well over 5. my issue is... why haven't they released the video, especially since half of the content they sell is available free on television. why can't apple integrate the ability to burn videos you have purchase to a DVD? that's the one thing that would really make me happy and stop caring so much about whatever else they want to do.
 
Wow

Wow! Seriously, this is great news. It validates my trust in Apple and the iTunes store. It's nice to see Apple doing the right thing for it's customers.

I'm very pleased with the upgrade path. I hope in the future when Apple upgrades the quality of any media they will allow for the upgrading of your library. This will be very important when they at some point start offering 1080p movies and TV shows. So, I hope this is a portent of the future.
 
And these self-proclaimed "experts" on the subject don't understand the concept that everyone has different hearing abilities. The people that can't hear the difference are people that weren't born with, or didn't develop, the ability to hear the difference.

Round up 10 people randomly, give them hearing tests, and you'll have 10 different sets of plots showing the frequency range each can hear.

But it's not just freq. range: Most of those 10 people won't be able to distinguish the difference between a violin and a viola. That's just how it works in the real world.

And your point is what exactly?

It is always like this. Some people hear differences and some don't. I only said that is possible given the right equipment.
 
I think that this is a good compromise, DRM free at higher quality and price for all players, or lower price with DRM, iPod only.

Good move on Apple, and a fair solution for the consumers, THANK YOU APPLE, and thank you EMI, for spearheading the music industry and shaking off that 'bully' image the industry is famous for, and listen to your customers.
 
One thing mentioned in this Press Release was the idea of an album and what digital downloads mean.

People are missing this part: there will be no premium price for a DRM-free and higher quality album compared to the standard.

-=|Mgkwho
 
The only thing I don't get is that if you don't go for Lossless why not go for the highest AAC encoding (i.e. 320 AAC)?

And yes, HD 720p movies would be nice too. :D

the difference between the 256kbps and 320kbps are so negligible and in fact, some encoders are worse at 320 in that they have the same exact quality.

this is great news
 
To me, the key aspect is all albums keeping their current pricing but getting the benefits of no DRM and higher quality.

Album sales are going to spike big time because of this. It is clear that EMI knows that they must rescue album sales before they die off.

I think this could be the sign of a couple of things:
1) Much better albums from artists, as everyone gets more money when one is sold.
2) With complete my album, you can easily "upgrade" to an album for little cost.
3) With no DRM, artists will get a lot more buzz.

This is how digital music is supposed to work. Very good quality, easy to "upgrade" to an album when you want to, and at a reasonable cost.

I give Apple 5 stars on this one.
 
Now that I'm browsing the list of EMI artists, this announcement just became very exciting indeed. I'm a 80s (and modern) synthpop freak, and EMI has a sizable list of "headliner" synth artists:

  • Pet Shop Boys
  • Depeche Mode
  • Erasure
  • Kraftwerk

The instant that the full 22-minute original version of Kraftwerk's "Autobahn" is released on iTunes, I'm getting it. That's the only KW album I don't have yet in digital format.
 
I must say I'm quite surprised at the generally positive response most of you are having to this.

I'm sorry guys, but this really should've been a "free" enhancement. 256k really should be the standard (and please don't say that Apple needs that much extra cash for the additional bandwidth), and it probably costs Apple LESS to not have to apply Fairplay.

The fact that we have to pay additional money to NOT have our tracks crippled is setting a really, really bad precedent. This would've been a huge step forward if it didn't cost extra. As long as there's any sort of tradeoff in order to not have music that I paid be crippled, then they still don't get it.

I find this really disappointing. Sell us our tracks without DRM and don't make us pay extra for the "privilege" and then you've got something, because at that point it means that you get it. Not until then.

Come on guys, this isn't a good thing. It's a step sideways.

Alternatively, the record companies could just say "screw you" to internet distribution in all its forms.

The pricing differential is to avoid cannibalizing their existing library AND to do in the short term what would take you and your argument years to prove. Allow me to explain...

If you went to the record labels and asked them to sell their product, to which they and they alone own the copyright and can pretty much tell you to go to hell if there's nothing it for them, for 99 cents a track without DRM... under PRESENT circumstances (yes, time travel to the past to change the history of DRM is not an option) they'd mostly laugh at you and you might scrape together a few small independent labels one by one and eventually go out of business trumped by bigger competition.

Apple's betting big by believing that they can sell DRM free tracks for $1.29 a piece... More importantly, they're doing it along side DRM'd tracks that cost less. This is a strategy with a surreptitious intent.

On the one hand it looks like they're justifying the "premium" file size. But on the other hand they're taking a stab at showing what I've argued all along... that if you treat piracy as a real (if illegitimate) competitor, and treat the song as though it is free but all the premiums are in the package, the service, the convenience, etc. people will be willing to buy it.

They proved this already by selling hundreds of millions of iTunes at 99 cents despite all the competition from FREE, I repeat FREE, downloads. This success most definitely has everything to do with the iTunes user interface, the seamless and idiot-proof operation and integration with iPod, and the quality of the hardware and software.

Clearly Apple understood what it would take to attract people to their service in the midst of a P2P era of free self-gratification... "convenience" being the key word. It had to be easier to use iTunes and iPod than it is to find crap on Limewire, Napster, etc. if they were to attract people into the fold. People argue all kinds of moral objections to the record industry but when it comes right down to it, people use P2P out of perceived convenience of snagging tracks for free and off a pretty large library. Only problem is those services aren't so convenient. The iTunes UI blows them away, and to get people hooked on it they introduced iTunes free to gain market penetration and some user familiarity before wheeling out iPod and iTunes Music Store.

Now they're doing it again... except the argument this time is to show that yes, it is possible to actually sell DRM-free tracks at a PREMIUM which customers will be willing to pay, given the right conditions.

Now, should there be a premium? Well, I could use another example that people often miss... Some argue that a-la carte TV programming is expensive. Well, sure it seems that way. But I also don't have to deal with commercials, which are what subsidize broadcast and the 900-channels-of-crap model of cable and dish. But few of the opponents of a-la carte have ever observed that key difference. Clearly they themselves are oblivious to the nuisance they're willing to endure to get streamed television at a discount.

Now are you feelin' me?

Yes, the terms were such that it attracted a large enough label to be Apple's guinea pig for this experiment... but the RESULT will be that Apple will have proved the demand for non-DRM tracks is tremendous and the larger library they're doing it with will generate large enough numbers that industry execs will be MUCH quicker to change their minds than if Apple had sold 50,000 tracks of some unknown artists from independent labels.

The net result can be the end of DRM... it may even result in a price normalization at or around 99 cents for 256Kbps AAC non-DRM if it replaces the current iTunes Store file standard. Even if the latter isn't the case, I think consumers will be willing to pay the premium for the increased bitrate, and the freedom from DRM.
 
who can't wait for some Chumbawamba & Spice Girls at 256!!!!!!

but no seriously this is a great thing. I've only bought one CD on iTunes and it sounds decent but I know I can hear a difference at 256 and would love to have that option.

hope the rest follow suit and quickly.
 
it's definitely a good one though.

No, not really. For starters, Macs are not known for their gaming-prowess, so creating a dedicated gaming-machine would be pointless. And in case you thought of creating a new game-console.... Consoles are a whole different ballgame when compared to Apple's current business. The market is already pretty full, and competing against Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony would be just plain dumb.
 
I'm afraid I disagree. Very high frequencies definitely seem to lose something on my 128k AAC tracks, normally with cymbals, most notably on the hi-hat. I don't really notice anything at 160k unless you were to play it on a cd straight after where there is a definite loss of...how can I put this technically...OOOOMPH!

EXACTLY! I've done that experiment and someone said it was all in my head, i'm glad someone else recognizes that fact.

There is also a sound :)p) reason for this as well, the high frequencies have less sample points than lower freqs, as a result, the reproduction of them suffer.
 
I dont know what world you live in? But usually when you get more, then youre charged extra. Thats the way of capitalism buddy. Do you want to just have more for less money? Oh yeah... ideal world I forgot.

So, what, having a condescending tone lends validity to your argument?

You keep on implying that you're getting more out of this deal. If by "more" you mean "they're not going out of their way to cripple my music files!" then sure. I simply don't believe, as I stated in my post, that the absence of DRM somehow means that I should have to pay more. Obviously this is just my view. As far as compression goes, again, this isn't a feature that should cost extra money (or at least not 30 c worth).

Please people be realistic. Apple is a business working out deals with other businesses. Like what do you expect free music at Lossless Quality. I rather have that than $.30 less, because $.30 doesnt make that much of a difference for trying to dissolve the pillars of business and capitalism.

No, I do not expect free music at full quality, but nice strawman argument. It's a pity you made it so obvious and then dedicated a paragraph tearing down an argument I obviously never made. Come on.
 
A few questions for everyone to ponder...

Am I paying more for DRM-free or quality?

If I'm paying more for quality why not just release the tracks as apple lossless? That way I can use them in whatever format I wish.

If it's for lack of DRM, then why can't I get either 128 or 256 ( or even Apple Lossless ) sans DRM?


Let's face it, this is not a traditional Apple business decision. It does not make the lives of it's users easier in any way. This is a move to fend off iTunes from further anti-trust scrutiny without impacting iPod sales. iPod owners will still continue to buy 128AAC DRM because it's easier and cheaper and won't bloat their library. EMI gets a shot in the arm to a mediocre business and ability to court iTunes users. End users get a choice between small and DRM and huge, no-DRM, and costs more. AAC is not a universal format and is another subtle jab at non-iPod owners since many will have to convert to mp3 in order to use.

If they offered Apple Lossless it would be a whole new ballgame since you would be getting 100% of the functionality of a CD ( 100% quality, reconversion to multiple bitrates, burn to a disk, .... ) without the hassle of B&M stores. The studios win because they would have almost 0 duplication and distribution costs.

For me I'll continue to buy real CD's for now.
 
No, not really. For starters, Macs are not known for their gaming-prowess, so creating a dedicated gaming-machine would be pointless. And in case you thought of creating a new game-console.... Consoles are a whole different ballgame when compared to Apple's current business. The market is already pretty full, and competing against Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony would be just plain dumb.

you are so right, it's not like the xbox runs on processors that stem from the G generation of macs. plus mac's aren't good with graphics. right? im sure when microsoft was developing the xbox they were going through the same bs. if apple really wanted to make a gaming system they could. no problem. oh yeah, pixar didn't use macs to make half of their cgi movies did they? apples just aren't setup right.

apple doesn't already compete with sony and microsoft so it would be dumb for them to start now.
 
MS has been at 256 kb/s for a while now. (Actually I think from the beginning.) I purchased a single track off of Urge.

Doesn't Urge have a lot more draconian DRM than ITMS has? How good is their selection when compared to ITMS? Yes, they might be "better" if you only stare at this one particular feature. But how about looking at the big picture?

Looking at the overall feature-set, it's easy to see why ITMS is #1. They have the best selection and the DRM is tolerable. And the sound-quality is "good enough" for most people. Other stores might have better DRM (emusic), but crappier selection (emusic). Some others might have a bit better sound-quality (Urge), while have less selection and more restrictive DRM (Urge).
 
Wow. This thread filled fast.

Waiting for the >80GB iPod.

Ditto. I really hope that a new iPod does come out this fall instead of next Spring which some rumor sites have reported. My iPod Photo is getting long in the tooth and short on the storage. :(

Doesn't Urge have a lot more draconian DRM than ITMS has? How good is their selection when compared to ITMS? Yes, they might be "better" if you only stare at this one particular feature. But how about looking at the big picture?

Looking at the overall feature-set, it's easy to see why ITMS is #1. They have the best selection and the DRM is tolerable. And the sound-quality is "good enough" for most people. Other stores might have better DRM (emusic), but crappier selection (emusic). Some others might have a bit better sound-quality (Urge), while have less selection and more restrictive DRM (Urge).


I'm just saying from the standpoint of overall track quality the notion that 256 kb/s is "premium" is a little bit hyped. I didn't bother to try and burn the track or anything else since I don't use Urge anyways. It was just a test on sound quality.
 
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