Apple Employees at Unionized Maryland Store File Labor Board Complaint After Being Denied Benefits

[I7guy]

Apple more selective than Harvard:

It's Harder To Get A Job At The Apple Store Than It Is To Get Into Harvard

Getting hired at the Apple Store proves tougher than gaining admission to Harvard, highlighting Apple's rigorous standards.

www.businessinsider.com

That's really cool. But that is business insider saying that, not Apple management. So well...fail.

Apple had irregular scheduling practices employees complained about:

Apple Agrees to Improve Working Conditions for Retail Employees Amid Unionization Efforts

Apple is planning to make employee schedules at retail locations more flexible in an attempt to improve working conditions, reports Bloomberg. The...

www.macrumors.com

Making improvements doesn't mean the Apple management in the past took steps to actively dissuade workers from getting second jobs as alleged. It's always good when a company makes things better for it's employees.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, it was the law of the land, and now it's changed. So what makes you so sure that the current law that says 13 year olds can't do dangerous work will never change? What's different about one law than the other?

I'll leave it to the reader to answer the question. It's called the slippery slope argument.

You keep saying unions are no longer needed,

No, I did not say that. Please quote where I said that.

because laws protect workers.

It's true. There is a myriad of federal, state and local laws that protect workers.

I'm saying those laws can change,

Sure they can change, and so could union power.

if we don't protect them.

If the slippery slope is anything can change, then union power certainly can be one of the casualities.

And you are the one who brought up dangerous working conditions.

Sure, because a myriad of federal, state and local laws protect workers. Now inherently some jobs are dangerous, but that doesn't mean that workers have to exposed to dangerous conditions.

I have no idea why you think fighting for a union limits your career.

Because it does....unless you want to go into union management?

That sounds like a corporate talking point to discourage people from joining unions.

People should figure this out for themselves.

 

[Night Spring]

No, I did not say that. Please quote where I said that.

Ok, I take your word you did not personally say that, but other posters have, and your argument seems to be that the laws are enough protection for worker's rights. Am I wrong? If the laws are enough, then it's one more step to "so unions are not needed." So I apologize for conflating you with other posters who said unions are no longer needed, but I hope you can see how it was an easy mistake to make.

As for the slippery slope -- yes, everything is a slippery slope, so we have to be diligent that things we care about don't slip off the table.

 

[norbinhouston]

What were the terrible working conditions these workers were experiencing? I've been to plenty of Apple Stores. Everyone of them were clean, modern, safe, air conditioned, well lit, beautiful designed. Those poor poor Apple Store workers, toiling away, while the products sell themselves.

 

[DeepWebinar]

What were the terrible working conditions these workers were experiencing? I've been to plenty of Apple Stores. Everyone of them were clean, modern, safe, air conditioned, well lit, beautiful designed. Those poor poor Apple Store workers, toiling away, while the products sell themselves.

Except they literally don’t lol. Otherwise the store wouldn’t exist. Apple wants to maintain that idea you have of the stores. That’s what the employees are doing. Go apply if you think it’s that easy, free money right?

 

[bmark]

It's simple enough if these union workers don't like the benefits Apple is offering then work elsewhere. Someone will take their position if they leave.

 

[project_2501]

It's simple enough if these union workers don't like the benefits Apple is offering then work elsewhere. Someone will take their position if they leave.

so wait - employers can organise collective action (lobbying for anti-worker legislation, for example), ... but workers can't?

 

[geartau]

This gets spouted every time Apple's hit by a ruling or cost but it simply isn't true. Apple already sell their devices at the highest cost the market will bear. If they could increase the prices without it having a negative impact on sales, they would have done so already.

"already sell their devices at the highest cost"

because of the previous rulings. 😂

 

[geartau]

I didn't say that at all. You are missing the point entirely. Reread (and don't selectively, out of context) misquote people.

I literally said "I'm not saying paying for performance is bad." and only was talking about those people trying to blame product cost increases on improving low end pay and narrowing the multiplier (and narrowing the multiplier doesn't mean less money for Tim necessarily, it can also mean more for the lowest paid ranks).

Misconstruing what others are saying only further discredits your point.

you blamed "executive compensation". your words.

if it's not "executive compensation" to blame, why even mention it?

 

[geartau]

Blaming unions for apple high prices makes no sense

your money goes towards paying what unions are requesting for. literally makes sense.

 

[NY Guitarist]

Citation please.

However, the pay for retail is high and the benefits are very good.

I know more than a few people who were literally told this by Apple in a group setting who came in for the first interview 'screening'.

I learned of it maybe 4-5 years ago, and don't know if this is still their practice, but Apple was VERY proud to say it more than a few times in the interview.

Edit: the best I could find on a quick (google) search was

"Former SVP of Retail Ron Johnson was once quoted as saying that it's tougher to be hired at Apple than being accepted by Stanford University.Apr 28, 2016"

 

[SnappleRumors]

If you're against a group of people consolidating their power in the form of a union then you should also be against people consolidating their power in the form of a corporation.

If not then you're just being hypocritical, and I question why.

I’m fine with the analogy.

Airline employee unions can collude and collectively bargain for wages and benefits against the airline industry.

The airline industry can then collude and collectively rig ticket prices against the consumer.

See how that works?

 

[maxoakland]

OK...what's the proper fair wage. And how does it differ than current wages. Be specific.

You’re acting like this is a hard question to answer but it’s easy to find out what people need to survive and thrive in every single location. This data is studied extensively

It seems pretty obvious you just want to make it seem like an impossible question to answer so we can waste time arguing while people aren’t making enough money to afford rent and food

And you know who pays for it? WE DO. Companies like Apple shouldn’t have a single employee on food stamps or medicaid

 

[SnappleRumors]

Apple more selective than Harvard:

It's Harder To Get A Job At The Apple Store Than It Is To Get Into Harvard

Getting hired at the Apple Store proves tougher than gaining admission to Harvard, highlighting Apple's rigorous standards.

www.businessinsider.com

Apple had irregular scheduling practices employees complained about:

Apple Agrees to Improve Working Conditions for Retail Employees Amid Unionization Efforts

Apple is planning to make employee schedules at retail locations more flexible in an attempt to improve working conditions, reports Bloomberg. The...

www.macrumors.com

A job at Walmart.

The store received more than 23,000 applications but hired just 600 associates, NBC Washington reported. That's a 2.6% acceptance rate — almost twice as selective as Harvard.

15 things that are harder to get into than Harvard

If you want to work at Goldman Sachs, Google, or the Secret Service — good luck.

www.businessinsider.com

So apparently getting a job at Apple or Walmart is about the same difficulty.

 

[citysnaps]

You’re acting like this is a hard question to answer but it’s easy to find out what people need to survive and thrive in every single location. This data is studied extensively

It seems pretty obvious you just want to make it seem like an impossible question to answer so we can waste time arguing while people aren’t making enough money to afford rent and food

And you know who pays for it? WE DO. Companies like Apple shouldn’t have a single employee on food stamps or medicaid

Nope. It's a legit question. It seems you just want to obfuscate rather than try to answer the question.

"Companies like Apple shouldn’t have a single employee on food stamps or medicaid"

How many do they have?

 

[NY Guitarist]

I’m fine with the analogy.

Airline employee unions can collude and collectively bargain for wages and benefits against the airline industry.

The airline industry can then collude and collectively rig ticket prices against the consumer.

See how that works?

False equivalence fallacy.

Collective bargaining is not the same as businesses colluding to rig prices. There's a reason the former is legal and the latter illegal.

 

[SnappleRumors]

False equivalence fallacy.

Collective bargaining is not the same as businesses colluding to rig prices. There's a reason the former is legal and the latter illegal.

I knew you wouldn’t like it. Just as you didn’t like my reply to your shouting fire in a theater.
I didn’t pick the argument or analogy.

 

[I7guy]

I know more than a few people who were literally told this by Apple in a group setting who came in for the first interview 'screening'.

I learned of it maybe 4-5 years ago, and don't know if this is still their practice, but Apple was VERY proud to say it more than a few times in the interview.

Edit: the best I could find on a quick (google) search was

"Former SVP of Retail Ron Johnson was once quoted as saying that it's tougher to be hired at Apple than being accepted by Stanford University.Apr 28, 2016"

Somebody said it once, sort of verified, and now it's a internet meme I guess.

 

[I7guy]

Ok, I take your word you did not personally say that, but other posters have, and your argument seems to be that the laws are enough protection for worker's rights. Am I wrong? If the laws are enough, then it's one more step to "so unions are not needed." So I apologize for conflating you with other posters who said unions are no longer needed, but I hope you can see how it was an easy mistake to make.

As for the slippery slope -- yes, everything is a slippery slope, so we have to be diligent that things we care about don't slip off the table.

You are worried about workers rights being eroded seemingly. You should also then be worried about the erosion of union rights. Their is plenty to hypothetically worry about. And yes, this is the very definition of a slippery slope.

 

[I7guy]

You’re acting like this is a hard question to answer but it’s easy to find out what people need to survive and thrive in every single location. This data is studied extensively

It seems pretty obvious you just want to make it seem like an impossible question to answer so we can waste time arguing while people aren’t making enough money to afford rent and food

And you know who pays for it? WE DO. Companies like Apple shouldn’t have a single employee on food stamps or medicaid

Should rich companies like MacDonalds (200B) have anyone on food stamps or medicare? Or is there some magic corporate worth number where this is allowed to happen?

 

[Night Spring]

You are worried about workers rights being eroded seemingly. You should also then be worried about the erosion of union rights. Their is plenty to hypothetically worry about. And yes, this is the very definition of a slippery slope.

Union rights? Unions exist to protect worker's rights, so I don't understand why you are making a distinction between worker's rights and union rights, or what the distinction is.

 

[I7guy]

Union rights? Unions exist to protect worker's rights, so I don't understand why you are making a distinction between worker's rights and union rights, or what the distinction is.

I don’t understand why you are worried about the dilution of the myriad of labor laws at the federal, state and local level. These laws are there to protect workers rights.

 

[NY Guitarist]

I knew you wouldn’t like it. Just as you didn’t like my reply to your shouting fire in a theater.
I didn’t pick the argument or analogy.

Strawman argument as it's not about whether I like your replies, it's that your replies are flawed.

 

[NY Guitarist]

Somebody said it once, sort of verified, and now it's a internet meme I guess.

Nope, verified by Apple workers that it was their stock propaganda during the first group 'review' of potential new hires.

 

[Night Spring]

I don’t understand why you are worried about the dilution of the myriad of labor laws at the federal, state and local level. These laws are there to protect workers rights.

Yes, and I've already said several times that laws can be changed. I think corporations are becoming more and more powerful, and they are able to influence politicians to change the laws to favor corporations and weaken worker rights.