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Apple announced iPadOS and Sign In with Apple at yesterday's WWDC keynote, and today Apple executives provided CNET with some additional insight on the thinking behind its new iPad-dedicated OS and secure sign-in system.

f1559583762.jpg

With Sign In with Apple, users can log in to third-party apps and services using their Apple ID, providing a more convenient way of logging in using Face ID without revealing additional personal information.

Unlike similar third-party sign-in services offered by the likes of Google and Facebook, logging in with Apple ID lets users choose to reveal or hide their email address. Users can also get Sign In with Apple to generate a unique random, anonymous email address that can be managed for specific apps, giving users more control of their data.

Guy "Bud" Tribble, Apple's vice president of software technology, told CNET that the feature was a direct challenge to the idea you need to "pay a heavy price" for the convenience of a sign-on service.
"It's not rocket science to say, 'Hey wouldn't that be great to have that without the tracking part of it.' Our whole point of view is giving more control to the user over things like their data."
ipadOS-home-screen.jpg

Sign In with Apple is coming in the fall as part of macOS Catalina, iOS 13, and iPadOS, the latter of which is designed to take advantage of the larger screens in the iPad family, featuring a redesigned Home screen, an updated Split View, overhauled Apple Pencil integration, and more.

Speaking about the decision to break out the iPad from its traditional iOS branding, Senior VP of software engineering Craig Federighi explained that it was a reflection of the device's increasingly unique capabilities.
"It's become a truly distinct experience. It's not an iPhone experience. It's not a Mac experience. The name is a recognition of that. We've expanded the domain where people can say the iPad is the best solution."
iPadOS can be downloaded now by Apple Developer Program members, while the public beta will launch later this month. In the fall, iPadOS will be available as a free software update for the iPad Air 2 and later, all iPad Pro devices, the fifth-generation iPad and later, and the iPad mini 4 and later.

Article Link: Apple Execs Share More Thoughts on iPadOS and New Secure Sign-in Service
 

Sasparilla

macrumors 68000
Jul 6, 2012
1,566
2,553
The secure sign in service looks awesome. There will be alot of devs who are counting on harvesting user data for $$$ that won't like this - but this is what the users are wanting (option for privacy).

Nice to see the iPad given its own fork.
 
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Coleco

macrumors member
Dec 15, 2003
41
45
Will iPad OS still allow installation and execution of iPhone apps on iPad?
 
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lederermc

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2014
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671
Seattle
The developers absolutely share info with FB and google in a co-conspiratorial capacity. I expect many will not allow Apple to circumvent this.
 
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macfacts

macrumors 68040
Oct 7, 2012
3,968
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Cybertron
Not at all. They go hand in hand.

So you sign in to a web site or app with this apple id. The web site or app doesn't have your name or email, that means you are anonymous.

Except the website or app will still know every keystroke of information you type in and what you do on the website or what you do with the app. All your actions on the website are still collected.
 
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BootsWalking

macrumors 65816
Feb 1, 2014
1,390
8,105
Google and Facebook got greedy by leveraging every last morsel of their users' privacy for profit. That enabled Apple to come in with a brilliant business plan of their own - profiting by protecting that same privacy. I can guess which strategy will be more successful in the long run.
 
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fdanna

macrumors newbie
Jan 19, 2012
15
11
I’m wondering what you do with the Facebook and Google sign ins you already have. How can you switch from one to the other? Presumably if you just sign in with apple it will look like a new user and all preferences will be lost. Any ideas?
 
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Defthand

macrumors 65816
Sep 1, 2010
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Unlike similar third-party sign-in services offered by the likes of Google and Facebook, logging in with Apple ID lets users choose to reveal or hide their email address. Users can also get Sign In with Apple to generate a unique random, anonymous email address that can be managed for specific apps, giving users more control of their data.

Guy "Bud" Tribble, Apple's vice president of software technology, told CNET that the feature was a direct challenge to the idea you need to "pay a heavy price" for the convenience of a sign-on service.

I'll play Devil's advocate...

As wonderful as it is to see some ownership returned to consumers, let's not be quick to heap praise on Apple who is also an opponent to other consumer liberties. Indeed, it is hypocritical to preach "Apple's turf... Apple's rules" when their business model offends, and support a hack that ignores another business's TOS. You want that app's offerings. They want a legitimate email addy to correlate meaningful facts about you that aid marketers. Good or bad, you're stealing if you circumvent the TOS.

That said, this is the issue with tech companies—rather than consumer advocates—defining what are acceptable practices and whose motives are reasonable.
 
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MisterSavage

macrumors 68030
Nov 10, 2018
2,681
2,806
What I always found interesting (not in a good way) was the different pieces of info about you the company would get if you agreed when trying to sign up for signing in with Google. It varies what they get to know about you. I've declined several times and am looking forward to signing in with Apple.
 
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Appleman3546

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2019
299
567
As a developer, I will just avoid third party login solutions in order to avoid the Apple sign-in ID requirement. That way, Apple can’t force me to have fake email addresses to market to. This button is great as an option for consumers, but forcing it on devs is tonedeaf (it should be an option for developers using third party logins, thus encouraging Apple to be competitive). In the end, this policy only hurts google and Facebook since most developers will just avoid third party logins now. But Apple can taketh away since they forbid other app stores on their platform or downloads from the internet to compete with their monopolistic developer rules. Competing App stores would really solve this arbitrary decision making by Apple, since the developers and consumers should be the one making the decision
 
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JetTester

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2014
461
885
I'm looking forward to seeing what iPadOS is going to bring, but also what kind of problems it is going to create for developers who are providing iPad and iPhone apps. This could be a big issue for small developers.
 
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lederermc

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2014
795
671
Seattle
So you sign in to a web site or app with this apple id. The web site or app doesn't have your name or email, that means you are anonymous.

Except the website or app will still know every keystroke of information you type in and what you do on the website or what you do with the app. All your actions on the website are still collected.
If the website does not "look" at your input then it can't know what you want the site to render onto you.
[doublepost=1559678504][/doublepost]
As a developer, I guess I will just not use any third party login support so that I can avoid the Apple sign-in ID rule. Then, Apple can’t force me to allow fake emails in my marketing.
A randomized email that forwards to a real person is not a fake email address. If all developers respected "Unsubscribe" we would be here now.
 
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Scooz

Suspended
Apr 9, 2012
339
347
Isn‘t the key skill of any tracking service to match your anonymous actions to your real email/identity that you used in some other context by matching IP, time, special cookies or fingerprints?

If Apple is giving you one address per app and this address is easily recognized as an obfuscated one by its Apple relay domain name part, these will quickly mapped to your real id. Without a VPN or TOR-like IP masking I would not think that this attractive sounding feature will have much effect. Maybe with sites that aren‘t part of one of the syndicates, but these are not the ones where you‘d need the feature in the first place.

So, while I want to believe...
 
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Zachari

macrumors regular
Feb 8, 2012
207
989
Washington, DC
So you sign in to a web site or app with this apple id. The web site or app doesn't have your name or email, that means you are anonymous.

Except the website or app will still know every keystroke of information you type in and what you do on the website or what you do with the app. All your actions on the website are still collected.

...semantics.
 
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Newjackboy

macrumors 6502a
Aug 6, 2012
625
258
I’m wondering what you do with the Facebook and Google sign ins you already have. How can you switch from one to the other? Presumably if you just sign in with apple it will look like a new user and all preferences will be lost. Any ideas?
This is exactly my question. Surely it only applies to new app or website sign ins? Which is not that great as today- most people will have existing log ins already (having used google or Facebook previously)
 
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JohnDoe98

macrumors 68020
May 1, 2009
2,488
99
As a developer, I will just avoid third party login solutions in order to avoid the Apple sign-in ID requirement. That way, Apple can’t force me to have fake email addresses to market to. This button is great as an option for consumers, but forcing it on devs is tonedeaf (it should be an option for developers using third party logins, thus encouraging Apple to be competitive). In the end, this policy only hurts google and Facebook since most developers will just avoid third party logins now. But Apple can taketh away since they forbid other app stores on their platform or downloads from the internet to compete with their monopolistic developer rules. Competing App stores would really solve this arbitrary decision making by Apple, since the developers and consumers should be the one making the decision

That’s fine, if your app is any good I will just use one of those random Apple emails I now have to sign up for your service. One way or another you will be marketing to fake emails.
[doublepost=1559682618][/doublepost]
If the website does not "look" at your input then it can't know what you want the site to render onto you.
[doublepost=1559678504][/doublepost]
A randomized email that forwards to a real person is not a fake email address. If all developers respected "Unsubscribe" we would be here now.
It is fake in the sense that it is an email that may never be looked at. The user decides if they want to unsubscribe now, not the ****** providers that keep spamming.
 
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Appleman3546

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2019
299
567
That’s fine, if your app is any good I will just use one of those random Apple emails I now have to sign up for your service. One way or another you will be marketing to fake emails.
Except that the developer could easily prevent users from signing up unless they have a gmail, yahoo, etc. (all serverside by the developer who could then give an error notice like “that email is not supported, please use a different email”) OR if Apple ends it in @apple.com for example then it would be extremely easy for the developer to prevent
 
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ipedro

macrumors 603
Nov 30, 2004
5,477
6,645
Toronto, ON
The holy grail of the internet user experience is to eliminate the password. It's been a long time coming through Touch ID, then Face ID but Sign In With Apple is going to begin a flood in that direction.

Notice that there isn't a suggested password. There is no password.

f1559583762.jpg


Whenever you go to a site that is signed up with Apple ID, there will be no friction, no login page at all. If it's you as verified by Face ID, then you're on the website as yourself. Completely seamless.

Apple usually leads the way to standards adoption. No doubt that Google will do the same with Android. Passwords will be largely dead within a few years.
 
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JohnDoe98

macrumors 68020
May 1, 2009
2,488
99
Except that the developer could easily prevent users from signing up unless they have a gmail, yahoo, etc. (all serverside by the developer who could then give an error notice like “that email is not supported, please use a different email”) OR if Apple ends it in @apple.com for example then it would be extremely easy for the developer to prevent

If you will ban Apple users why bother even making iOS apps then? No one in their right mind would do this. They want the Apple user base, and now with all this security and convenience, a lot of people will delete their old accounts and throwaway gmail ones.
[doublepost=1559684309][/doublepost]
Isn‘t the key skill of any tracking service to match your anonymous actions to your real email/identity that you used in some other context by matching IP, time, special cookies or fingerprints?

If Apple is giving you one address per app and this address is easily recognized as an obfuscated one by its Apple relay domain name part, these will quickly mapped to your real id. Without a VPN or TOR-like IP masking I would not think that this attractive sounding feature will have much effect. Maybe with sites that aren‘t part of one of the syndicates, but these are not the ones where you‘d need the feature in the first place.

So, while I want to believe...

True, the game is matching anonymous accounts with real identities, but the game is getting much harder now. Apple has taken multiple measures already in Safari to make all browsers look the same and to minimize fingerprints. Apple Pay hides my payment information. If you use private browsing the cookies will be deleted every session. There won’t be much left but a bunch IP addresses that my random account has used at a bunch of different locations with different IP addresses.
 
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