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in my job, if my company is failing - for whatever reason - I get paid less, through our bonus structure.

It doesnt matter if the problem is CEOrelated, or the market taking a dive, I get paid less. Hell, if head office change stuff that ultimately removes my depart,ments ability to make money, irrespective of the value we provide, we get less $$..

thats life.

CEOs should play by same rules.

I'm pretty sure, with Apple being one of the most successful companies around, that it doesn't need your advice on how to pay it's CEOs.

Who do you think made these decisions anyway? Some magical pay-decision fairy that's bending it's ear to your words? No, it was the CEOs, Directors and Non-Employee Board members themselves.
 
The big rich scam is that you're taxed 15% on stocks no matter what your income.

If you are going to spout left wing propaganda at least spout the correct facts:

1) Capital Gains tax is 20% for couples with AGI of $450K or individuals of $400K. Only people below that AGI pay 15%


2) There is a 3.8% "medicare tax" surcharge on all investment income for couples with AGI of $250K and individuals with an AGI of $200K. That is in addition to the Capital Gains tax.

The reason Capital Gains rates were brought down years ago was to spur investment. Unlike regular income which is earned mostly by salary and wages, capital gains are typically earned by putting money at risk. An investor can just as easily lose money as make it. If the ROI is so lessened that the risk out weights the potential reward because of the tax bite then investors usually sit on cash. That's not good for the economy or growth.
 
It still amazes me how much some people make.

what amazes me is how large companies try to increase revenue by laying-off hundreds of employees who make 5 figures when cutting top executive's insane 7 figure salaries/bonuses by a small percentage would achieve the same goal.

no person needs that much money, but all people need some money.
 
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So if Steve Jobs was still here, his $1 salary would mean....

I suggest you read his biography by Walter Isaacson.
He was a very strange duck because on the one hand he didn't want to come off as a capitalist, but on the other hand he demanded several times a LOT of stocks, worth more than 200mil if I remember well.
 
what amazes me is how large companies try to increase revenue by laying-off hundreds of employees who make 5 figures when cutting top executive's insane 7 figure salaries/bonuses by a small percentage would achieve the same goal.

no person needs that much money, but all people need some money.

Agreed. Unless the person built the company up from scratch...I really don't see how any exec needs more than 5 million total compensation and no golden parachutes.
Can you imagine how much better off our country would be if all that excess money sucked up by the execs were paid to the workers? Consumption would rise, tax revenue would rise, crime would go down, people could eat better.....
 
Wonder if Jony Ive has to comply since he's not a named executive officer of the company. :confused:

According to http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/ he is in the same category as the rest of them - Senior Vice President.

Whether that makes him an "executive officer" is not clear. But if he's not, then it seems that nobody else is a senior officer either.

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For CEOs it should be 75% to 90% of the total package. Company takes a loss for the year, then your pay goes way down.

How would companies in cyclical industries get the best CEOs if that were the case?
 
If you are going to spout left wing propaganda at least spout the correct facts:

1) Capital Gains tax is 20% for couples with AGI of $450K or individuals of $400K. Only people below that AGI pay 15%

It's not 'left wing propoganda'. It's the truth.

The Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 made the Capital Gains tax 15%.

It expired in 2012, and it will go up to 20% this year, unless congress extends the provision, which is one of the things that the republicans are fighting for right now.

Nobody, regardless of income, has paid more than 15% since 2005. That's a fact.
 
i wonder if rich people ever sit around and talk about poor people like this..

They complain that those people work too little and make too much. Don't they realize that labor costs are a major drag on the bottom line? Paid holidays? Minimum wage? These people just don't understand that they get paid way too much already.

After all, the Widow Jobs needs a second yacht to keep docked in the Mediterranean! What if she and the kids need a quick weekend getaway?

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If you are going to spout left wing propaganda at least spout the correct facts:

1) Capital Gains tax is 20% for couples with AGI of $450K or individuals of $400K. Only people below that AGI pay 15%

Great point!

So only 99% of the population will actually pay the 15% rate. Everybody else pays 20%. That is SO unfair.

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I suggest you read his biography by Walter Isaacson.
He was a very strange duck because on the one hand he didn't want to come off as a capitalist,

He was a Corporate CEO.

He was a CEO of the largest company in the world.

But he "didn't want to "come off as a capitalist"? Cognitive dissonance maybe? Steve Jobs had one big talent: He knew how to turn a buck. That is pretty much it.

He was a skilled capitalist. One of the biggest. One of the best. And one of the slimiest.
 
I think most people would agree the executives pay should be based on the stock value and not a fixed annual salary that doesnt rise or fall based on company performance.

I don't think that "most people" would agree with that - I certainly do not. The performance on the stock market of a particular stock is only loosely tied to the performance of the company executives, and to the extent that their actions have an effect on the short term stock price, that effect can be negative to the long term stock price.

Pay the employees (and the executives) based on their ability to perform specific tasks - which means you need to evaluate that performance and also the value of the tasks. This is difficult, and you cannot just let "the market" do the evaluations and hope for the best.

Some of this can be assisted by long term stock ownership and grants and options with spread out vesting dates and the like, but tying compensation entirely to stock ownership is just silly.
 
Agreed; if anything, when business heads south, what ends up happening is that staff are trimmed rather than management taking paycuts...

in my job, if my company is failing - for whatever reason - I get paid less, through our bonus structure.

It doesnt matter if the problem is CEOrelated, or the market taking a dive, I get paid less. Hell, if head office change stuff that ultimately removes my depart,ments ability to make money, irrespective of the value we provide, we get less $$..

thats life.

CEOs should play by same rules.
 
So they have 5 years to get to this level. I also see nothing regarding the timing or periodical nature of confirmation. Do they have to constantly review and determine if they meet this as the stock price fluctuates or is it just checked periodically (eg: 4 times a year)? Seems a bit ... odd.

Based on this information, it seems almost absurd. If reviews will be frequent, and if there is a gradual decline in the stock price, due to increased competition, higher production costs, weaker global demand, or for whatever reason, there would be no limit to how much the executives might be required to spend on buying additional stock, in order to stay compliant. It could easily be more than their annual salaries—even several times their annual salaries in case of a severe decline. Which would give them the incentive to jump ship as fast as possible upon the slightest sign of a risk of such a situation. (They would all want to be among the first to leave, in order to avoid having to buy stock to stay compliant while facing further share-price declines due to other executives leaving.)

The share-price effects of all senior managers quitting at once might not please the rest of the shareholders…

Also, it would seem to be hard to ever remove this rule, as such a move could be interpreted as a sign that insiders believe that the stock is overvalued…

Perhaps the answer to all this is that the punishment for not being in compliance will not be particularly severe.
 
This is a stupid policy. Executives at a company like Apple already have their salaries, bonuses, stock-based compensation, and their individual reputations all tied to how well their company does. You'd think those factors alone would be sufficient for managers to take a rooting interest in the company's future.

It's just foolish to not diversify enough so that a court case, an accident, or the CEO's picture on the front page with an altar boy and a sheep doesn't take you from riches to rags overnight. We've seen stock prices plummet for all sort of reasons that have little or nothing to do with the performance of managers, and certainly not with the performance of every manager.

Whether it's a money-center bank, a Fortune 50 company, or some pink sheet outfit, there is always some idiot who thinks it's a demonstration of loyalty and dedication if you tie yourself to the mast. My view is that any executive foolish enough to wager everything his family has on the financial future of a single company is too foolish to be trusted with a responsible role in corporate management or direction.

Nor should we neglect the wisdom of those who have recognized that a short-term focus on stock price can lead to lousy decisions, or overlook the fact that a senior manager or board member who is set for life with company stock at its then current value is very likely to be more reluctant to support bold initiatives that present some risk than an objective decision-maker ought to be.

I thought Apple was better than this.

Uhhh, Tim Cook was paid $378,000,000 in 2011 alone. You really think saying "hey, you need to have $14,000,000 in stock" is wagering everything his family has????
 
It's not 'left wing propoganda'. It's the truth.

The Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 made the Capital Gains tax 15%.

It expired in 2012, and it will go up to 20% this year, unless congress extends the provision, which is one of the things that the republicans are fighting for right now.

Nobody, regardless of income, has paid more than 15% since 2005. That's a fact.

Left wing propaganda is that wealthy investors are getting a free ride at lower CG rate than earned income. It's not true for reason I cited: people need an incentive to put their money at risk. Wealthier people tend to have more money to invest than others, but they are also happy just sitting on it which does no one any good.

Also your original post did not cite the change in the new CG tax rates. Those are already law. The 3.8% surcharge is from the health care law; the new 20% rate was part of the "Fiscal Cliff" negotiations in Jan. So wealthier people ARE now going to be paying a higher CG rate which is NOT what your original post stated.

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So only 99% of the population will actually pay the 15% rate.

We are not talking about income tax, i.e., earned income. We are talking about money already taxed at the regular earned income level and then put at risk by investing and a gain resulted. Of course a loss could also result.

Also, check your math. A couple earning $250K is NOT a 1%er family.
 
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Based on this information, it seems almost absurd. If reviews will be frequent, and if there is a gradual decline in the stock price, due to increased competition, higher production costs, weaker global demand, or for whatever reason, there would be no limit to how much the executives might be required to spend on buying additional stock, in order to stay compliant. It could easily be more than their annual salaries—even several times their annual salaries in case of a severe decline. Which would give them the incentive to jump ship as fast as possible upon the slightest sign of a risk of such a situation. (They would all want to be among the first to leave, in order to avoid having to buy stock to stay compliant while facing further share-price declines due to other executives leaving.)

The share-price effects of all senior managers quitting at once might not please the rest of the shareholders…

Also, it would seem to be hard to ever remove this rule, as such a move could be interpreted as a sign that insiders believe that the stock is overvalued…

Perhaps the answer to all this is that the punishment for not being in compliance will not be particularly severe.

While lowering stock prices does create a moving target, the executive's yearly stock grant will be more than sufficient to make up for any share price drop. Certainly for the major executives they earn 20 times their cash salary in stock grants that are vest each year. You just don't realize how many shares these guys get as part of their normal package already.
 
Left wing propaganda is that wealthy investors are getting a free ride at lower CG rate than earned income. It's not true for reason I cited: people need an incentive to put their money at risk. Wealthier people tend to have more money to invest than others, but they are also happy just sitting on it which does no one any good.

Wrong. Guess where wealthy people who don't want to put their cash at risk keep it? They keep it in a bank. The bank keeps 10% of that money (or less) on their books and takes the other 90% and lends it out (i.e., puts it at risk in a business which is borrowing the money most likely to expand). Buying additional shares in an already publicly traded stock does not put any more money in the hands of a company (companies only get the initial payment at issuance). So no we don't need super low dividend tax rates to stimulate the buying of stocks. I'm not going to say that dividend tax rates are right, wrong, too high or too low. Just that investment in our economy is not strongly influenced by these rates. Investment in our economy is mainly influenced by the belief that there is under served demand for a good and service that suggests expansion is a good thing. Companies expand when they think they can get more customers, not on the basis of some marginal tax change. Same thing for stocks for the most part.

Warren Buffett Quote to Follow:
SUPPOSE that an investor you admire and trust comes to you with an investment idea. “This is a good one,” he says enthusiastically. “I’m in it, and I think you should be, too.”

Would your reply possibly be this? “Well, it all depends on what my tax rate will be on the gain you’re saying we’re going to make. If the taxes are too high, I would rather leave the money in my savings account, earning a quarter of 1 percent.” Only in Grover Norquist’s imagination does such a response exist.

Between 1951 and 1954, when the capital gains rate was 25 percent and marginal rates on dividends reached 91 percent in extreme cases, I sold securities and did pretty well. In the years from 1956 to 1969, the top marginal rate fell modestly, but was still a lofty 70 percent — and the tax rate on capital gains inched up to 27.5 percent. I was managing funds for investors then. Never did anyone mention taxes as a reason to forgo an investment opportunity that I offered.

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http://www.forbes.com/lists/2012/12/ceo-compensation-12_rank.html

In 2012 Cook was 107 on this list with a salary of $900,000.

Obviously when you are getting a $300 million stock award, the cash part of the salary at these levels is pretty meaningless. You might as well be comparing these guys on the basis of who has a better parking spot at their respective companies and a better lunch served during their meetings. Both of those factors have a more significant impact on Cook than the cash part of his yearly salary.
 
Left wing propaganda is that wealthy investors are getting a free ride at lower CG rate than earned income.

I didn't say anything of the sort. You're putting words into my mouth.

In theory, if all companies offered it, ANYONE at any income level can take stock instead of pay. Wait a year, and use that 'investment' as their income. And do that year after year. My 2011 stocks are my 2012 income, my 2012 stocks are my 2013 income, etc. etc.

However, 90% of the population can't. They need the money for day-to-day expenses.

Would this be fair? Say worker A lived like a pauper and saved has 2005 income (25K of his 50K salary). In 2006, he lived off of the second 25K while being paid $0. He asked his work to pay his salary in stock. Now in 2007 and beyond, he lives off of his 50K now taxed at 15%.

This is unfair regardless of income. But it's a game that rich people can play a lot better than poor people can.
 
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