Apple Executives Consider Thirty Years of Macintosh, Say iOS and OS X Convergence 'A Non-Goal'

[Ingot]

Non-goal until someone do it with Android or Windows Phone. Then it will be a goal. IF it was technically viable having a tablet capable of doing laptop-class processing, of course I'd want it!

Why I would want two devices occupying my briefcase if I can have only one? Of course an iPad-sized Macbook Air would be a nice thing to have! If it was as capable as a Retina Macbook, even better.

Convergence is the way to go. Of course it's not interesting for companies narrowing a product line into a single one, but for consumers of course it's a good thing.

11" MBA. Bought one last June instead of iPad. Wife got the shiny new iPad. I love this thing. It is a teeny bit bigger than an iPad, but not my much. A little more expensive to be sure, but i enjoy having Logic pro and final cut pro at my fingertips at a moments notice. And I am better at typing on a classical tactile qwerty keyboard.

Just my thoughts.

 

[username:]

"...when it makes sense"
"...without a good reason"

Apple is known for saying "We think X doesn't make sense at all, because of the problem of Y." We tend to interpret that as "See? They're not going to do X". What they really mean is "we're working on solving the problem of Y."

Then they get on stage and say "Well, X doesn't make sense, because of Y. But introducing this little twist on X! We've solved Y!" and suddenly they have a huge hit and they upend the way the industry sees things. And everyone says "Duh, why didn't we think of this before."

They said small-capacity flash MP3 players didn't make sense... so they built the hard-drive based iPod.
They said smartphones with tiny keyboards didn't make sense... so they built a touchscreen iPhone.
They said cheap netbooks didn't make sense... so they built the first ultrabook instead.

Now they (seem to be) saying convertible touchscreen laptops don't make sense... so what are they up to?

This is a really good point. Are they prepping a new device?

 

[firewood]

“Every company that made computers when we started the Mac, they’re all gone,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s Senior Vice President of Worldwide Marketing, in an interview on Apple's Cupertino campus Thursday. “We’re the only one left."

I assume a some literary license was taken here. It is true that the vast majority of pre-1980 personal computer makers, such as Commodore, Atari, Altair, Imsai, Cromemco, Processor Tech, Morrow Designs, Osborne, et.al. are all long gone. But, even though they no longer still make their own personal computers, IBM, Texas Instruments, and Tandy/Radio Shack are all still around. IBM still makes servers, Big Iron mainframes and supercomputers. TI currently still makes calculators that are more powerful than most early personal computers (run Basic programs faster, etc.). And HP started shipping 9800 series personal computers well before 1980, and still makes laptops, PCs, and servers.

So. Not *all* gone.

----------

They might not merge the two operating systems, but they might offer a device that boots into both iOS and OSX depending on your current needs.

The iOS Simulator sort-of allows this already (as long as you only want to run apps you can build yourself using Xcode). That's how developers do some initial testing of their iOS apps on their MacBooks.

Just like the OS X kernel used to support running both a Carbon and Cocoa box, it now supports running both a Cocoa (OS X UI) and a Cocoa Touch (iOS UI) box for developers.

 

[MattInOz]

"
Now they (seem to be) saying convertible touchscreen laptops don't make sense... so what are they up to?

Two paired devices. iPad and MacBoard.
MacBoard being a Laptop without a screen uses Airplay to grab control of the iPad screen. Uses a local bandwidth to sync user files. Wifi AC would provide high enough connection for this. Wireless charging between devices so you only need to plug on in.*

When ever you want to go more touch based just grab the iPad and use as comfortable.

But could be used with AppleTV at home or with rumoured 4K Apple TV screen.

To me the next step is for multiple devices to work as a seamless cluster while still keeping best Core os for function.

*it's long enough now that people won't compare this to the C64.

 

[WaxedJacket]

"You had a bunch of tools," Federighi said, pointing at my bag. And you pulled out the one that felt right for the job that you were doing. It wasn’t because it had more computing power … you pulled it out because it was the most natural device to accomplish a task."​

That's a great quote.

 

[Menneisyys2]

No OS X tablets, then? That's VERY bad news. I'd love a 4K supertablet running OS X and with Wacom support like that of the Panasonic Toughpad 4K Tablet.

 

[osx11]

What kind of device would that be?

Well....maybe like a bigger iPad (12") that looks just like an iPad and runs normal iOS.

However, when plugged in to a docking station, the iPad turns into a screen and, with the help of a keyboard, trackpad, and external storage, can boot into OSX.

I know this will probably NEVER happen. But it would be awesome.

At a certain point, these iPads just turn into big but ultra thin monitors. I think there is a potential in somehow using a slightly larger iPad's screen as a monitor for OSX.

Imagine a 4K cinema display as thin as an iPad. Would be epic!

I don't know! This is just pure speculation and dreaming. But I think there are going to be "revolutionary" devices coming from Apple in the next few years.

----------

No OS X tablets, then? That's VERY bad news. I'd love a 4K supertablet running OS X and with Wacom support like that of the Panasonic Toughpad 4K Tablet.

The problem is that with the current OSX, you wouldn't want to run it on a tablet. It's simply not optimized that way.

And then we have the following dilemma:

- Do we make the entire OS touch friendly a la Windows 8?
- Do we have a separate OS for touch devices/tablet?

Both options are not ideal and until Apple figures out something better I think we are stuck with what we have right now.

 

[Elbon]

exactly. touch screen laptops now have real momentum and apple will eventually have to jump in.

Never mind touchscreen laptops...I just want better Bluetooth keyboard suuport on my iPad!

 

[DrManhattan]

I was already pretty positive they weren't going to do this anytime soon, but happy for confirmation. That should get rid of a few more trolls and astroturfers.

 

[v0lume4]

Phew! I find it funny the amount of relief on this forum after reading this, myself included. Long live the Mac!

 

[AppleScruff1]

What if this is typical Apple talk, say one thing, do the exact opposite? iPad Pro with OSX touch.


We'll never make a smaller iPad. Or bigger iPhone. We're doubling done on secrecy.

 

[Menneisyys2]

The problem is that with the current OSX, you wouldn't want to run it on a tablet. It's simply not optimized that way.

And then we have the following dilemma:

- Do we make the entire OS touch friendly a la Windows 8?
- Do we have a separate OS for touch devices/tablet?

Both options are not ideal and until Apple figures out something better I think we are stuck with what we have right now.

Well, I'm not asking for a completely new surface - the change between the traditional Windows interface and the new touch one has caused me a lot of headache already

I'm just asking for Wacom support. I'd love precision pen input - all with OS X (and not Windows - I could go for the Toughpad right away but I want OS X in a somewhat similar package, including Wacom and 4K).

 

[iBug2]

What if this is typical Apple talk, say one thing, do the exact opposite? iPad Pro with OSX touch.


We'll never make a smaller iPad. Or bigger iPhone. We're doubling done on secrecy.

Except they never said either of those things.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Except they never said either of those things.

Tim Cook never said we're doubling down on secrecy, Steve Jobs never said they wouldn't make a smaller iPad and he never said the original iPhone was the ideal size. Whatever you say.

 

[pubwvj]

It would be useful because I want access to my data both ways. iCloud doesn't cut it because that requires an internet connection and is insecure.

 

[Renzatic]

Tim Cook never said we're doubling down on secrecy, Steve Jobs never said they wouldn't make a smaller iPad and he never said the original iPhone was the ideal size. Whatever you say.

Officially, Steve Jobs said you'd have to file your fingers down to use a tablet smaller than 10 inches. I don't think he ever flat out stated they'd never make a smaller one, just indirectly implied it.

And the funniest thing was how before the Mini came out, anytime someone brought up a smaller iPad, you'd inevitably have someone say "no, it's stupid. You'd have to file your fingers down to use it".

...and now, no one says that. I have a feeling the exact same thing is gonna happen when Apple releases a larger iPhone.

 

[kalsta]

Good to hear. I think the decision was even easier to make when they saw what went down with Windows 8 among consumer opinions. Or maybe they were just smart enough to not go there in the first place, realizing what would happen. I sure don't know why Microsoft even went there.

It's not that hard to work out. Microsoft lost the tablet market to iOS and Android. It's a HUGE market, the growth of which is unprecedented, and Microsoft are panicking because they're not a part of it. It's hard to break into a rapidly maturing market where people love the existing products. So how does Microsoft get its foot in the door? Microsoft does what it has always done—tries to milk the ubiquity of Windows to its advantage. Its what they did many years ago in the browser wars with Netscape. By making Internet Explorer the default browser on Windows, they completely negated Netscape's early lead. And now they're trying to do a similar thing to break into the tablet market, by turning every PC into a hybrid-tablet. If they could convince every PC user to upgrade to one of these hybrid devices, they could suddenly claim a large chunk of tablet marketshare.

The only problem with this strategy is that the hybrid-concept sucks. It's the forced marriage of two incompatible partners—touchscreen interface and pointing device interface. People get that when they try it, and that's doing nothing but harming Microsoft's reputation in BOTH spaces.

 

[rowspaxe]

The only problem with this strategy is that the hybrid-concept sucks. It's the forced marriage of two incompatible partners—touchscreen interface and pointing device interface..

Your analysis is fine but your conclusions are--imo--wrong. Windows 8 succeeds on its own terms--a hybrid ui. I use surface and its great to use as a drawing tablet, and--with a mouse--as mobile workstation running real x86 applications--it great as well. Its not an ipad replacement--its is great device in its own right.

There is nothing "legacy" about the desktop--its here forever because it is massively more productive than metro or ios or android.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Officially, Steve Jobs said you'd have to file your fingers down to use a tablet smaller than 10 inches. I don't think he ever flat out stated they'd never make a smaller one, just indirectly implied it.

And the funniest thing was how before the Mini came out, anytime someone brought up a smaller iPad, you'd inevitably have someone say "no, it's stupid. You'd have to file your fingers down to use it".

...and now, no one says that. I have a feeling the exact same thing is gonna happen when Apple releases a larger iPhone.

Check this out. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1032899/

And this:http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/10/18/steve_jobs_squashes_rumors_of_smaller_7_inch_ipad

And this: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/tablets-steve-jobs/

“7-inch tablets are tweeners: too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with the iPad,” said Jobs, adding that competing manufacturers were struggling to meet the price point of the iPad, which starts at $500. Both Samsung and RIM have not announced pricing on their tablets.

“These are among the reasons that the current crop of 7-inch tablets are going to be DOA — dead on arrival,” Jobs said during the earnings call.


I never heard anyone say anything about filing your fingers down. If I didn't see you at work everyday, I'd think you were making that up.

 

[MNealBarrett]

"Convergence" is the wrong word. "Intersection" is a bit more along the lines of what I am envisioning. For example, I think it would be awesome if you could attach a mouse and keyboard to the "iPad Pro" and have it run an OS that has more of the features of Mac OS. (Obviously running the full Mac OS would be difficult since it would use a totally different CPU architecture)

 

[Renzatic]

Check this out. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1032899/

And this: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/tablets-steve-jobs/

“7-inch tablets are tweeners: too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with the iPad,” said Jobs, adding that competing manufacturers were struggling to meet the price point of the iPad, which starts at $500. Both Samsung and RIM have not announced pricing on their tablets.

“These are among the reasons that the current crop of 7-inch tablets are going to be DOA — dead on arrival,” Jobs said during the earnings call.

Yeah? So what? He never flat out stated Apple would never make one. You're just making stuff up. Why don't you go and spread your FUD somewhere else, hater?

...wow, that was kinda fun. No wonder so many people do that around here.

I never heard anyone say anything about filing your fingers down. If I didn't see you at work everyday, I'd think you were making that up.

BOOM!.

...Or rather, he suggested that they’ll work fine if they come with sandpaper to file your fingers down to the size needed to make a 7″ tablet usable. Tell us how you really feel, Steve.

And you know what? They never did make a 7 inch tablet. They made a 7.9 inch tablet. See? He was right all along.

 

[kalsta]

This is good, I don't think we really need them to merge at the moment. Maybe in the future, but for now I prefer having the laptop form factor at home - vastly preferable to the tablet keyboard, for one. I think tablets work well for viewing media, not so much for creating it or even writing things, etc.

And why would that change in the future? Are people about to evolve fingers capable of the same precision as a pointing device, or arms which are capable of extending out to a vertical screen for hours without fatiguing?

Non-goal until someone do it with Android or Windows Phone. Then it will be a goal. IF it was technically viable having a tablet capable of doing laptop-class processing, of course I'd want it!

Why I would want two devices occupying my briefcase if I can have only one? Of course an iPad-sized Macbook Air would be a nice thing to have! If it was as capable as a Retina Macbook, even better.

Convergence is the way to go. Of course it's not interesting for companies narrowing a product line into a single one, but for consumers of course it's a good thing.

You seem to think 'convergence' is a simple matter of giving a tablet more processing power, or making a MacBook smaller! Those things are incidental. It's about making an interface that responds equally well, under all usage scenarios and conditions, to both a pointing device and your finger via a touchscreen. Since there are fundamental differences (pros and cons) to each of these input methods, any attempt to cater to both in a single interface is doomed to mediocrity. It might be okay for both, but it won't be great at either.

I wonder if we can believe it.

There's lots of small hints and evidence of eventual convergence, a thought that would push me away after 20 years of great Apple computers.

Mavericks is but one example of the influence and subtle inclusion of iOS elements. What a dreadful issue this is.

Did you not read the article? Apple is taking pains to explain that similarities in design do not equal convergence of tools tailored to 'unique purposes'. You might start with this quote from the article:

At the same time, you don't want to feel like iOS was designed by [one] company and Mac was designed by [a different] company, and they're different for reasons of lack of common vision. We have a common sense of aesthetics, a common set of principles that drive us, and we're building the best products we can for their unique purposes. So you'll see them be the same where that makes sense, and you'll see them be different in those things that are critical to their essence.​

I don't think this is where Microsoft wanted to go at all (they wanted to kill the desktop in the long term and move ahead with Metro), but I think they'll be forced to go there. What a waste of time to first try to seek a middle ground in Metro, release Windows 8, then accept that the desktop users wanted to use Desktop and the tablet users Metro anyway, release Windows 8.1 + 8.1 Update 1 which will have this fleshed out further in Windows 9...

Microsoft never wanted to kill the desktop! They simply wanted to use their market dominance with Windows to force their way into the tablet market. (See my previous post.)

A couple years ago I figured we would see a merger of iOS and Mac OS into something approaching Windows 8. Glad now that I was wrong.

Nice to see someone on MR actually willing to admit they were wrong!

I'm glad to hear this, it's something we needed to hear (that there are no grand plans to merge OSX and iOS).

No it isn't. We knew this already and Apple has said it many times already. If you weren't listening then you probably aren't listening now. At the most recent event they specifically mocked their competitors for "trying to turn tablets into laptops and laptops into tablets". They also committed to making several California themed OS X releases, and Steve Jobs has mocked touch screen laptops and "gorilla arms". Stop talking and start listening.

Exactly. I've been making similar points on these forums for some years now. But some people simply refuse to get it. Each time an iOS-inspired interface idea hits the Mac, out come the convergence theorists again.

 

[griz]

"For example, making sure its messaging and calendaring apps have the same name on both OS X and iOS."

OMG, yes, I was having such an issue going between iCal and Calendar. I would sit for hours staring at my iPhone asking, "Where the hell is iCal" and then I would realize, "Oh, duh, it's calendar". The added productivity has allowed me to do so much. I have learned a second language, gone deep sea diving, became a spelunker, traveled to the remote jungles of Peru and climbed Mt Everest. All in the span of a few month. Thank you Apple, Thank you Thank you!

 

[AppleScruff1]

Yeah? So what? He never flat out stated Apple would never make one. You're just making stuff up. Why don't you go and spread your FUD somewhere else, hater?

...wow, that was kinda fun. No wonder so many people do that around here.



BOOM!.



And you know what? They never did make a 7 inch tablet. They made a 7.9 inch tablet. See? He was right all along.

I knew that someone would make that comment, but I thought it would be someone else.

 

[kalsta]

Your analysis is fine but your conclusions are--imo--wrong. Windows 8 succeeds on its own terms--a hybrid ui. I use surface and its great to use as a drawing tablet, and--with a mouse--as mobile workstation running real x86 applications--it great as well. Its not an ipad replacement--its is great device in its own right.

Tell me though… Does it really feel like one coherent experience to you, or like you are switching between two different paradigms?

There is nothing "legacy" about the desktop--its here forever because it is massively more productive than metro or ios or android.

That's kind of my point. For many tasks, you just can't beat the precision of a pointing device and physical keyboard. But touch-screens can be more productive for some things. It really depends on the particular task.