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rdlink

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2007
3,226
2,435
Out of the Reach of the FBI
Are you from the past? Watch out, a comunist is behind you.

Yes, as are you. Unless you were born a few minutes ago.

I'm also from the present, where there are unfortunately far too many people too stupid to realize the lessons of the past, and that there is no such thing as a free ride.

There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. The bus needs gas to go. And when everyone is jumping on the bus, taking up all of the seats and not helping to pay for it the guy buying the gas is going to get fed up and go buy his own car.
 

rdlink

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2007
3,226
2,435
Out of the Reach of the FBI
I really don't think you know what that word means.

Wait. Let me check. Yep. Means exactly what I think it does...
 

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Norbury

macrumors member
Jun 22, 2014
47
1
UK
14 weeks + 4 maternity leave!? Is this generous in the US? Nine months is standard here (UK) with an option of up to a year. That's not at full pay though, and the last three months are unpaid, but mothers have a right to it and their job must be held open for them to return to. Plus you accumulate holidays during that time. As a perk employers can make the maternity pay more generous, but the statutory right is for 12 months. Making it statutory means there is a level playing field for businesses.

Eta: maybe I should read the thread before posting. ;)
 

MikePLP

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2014
253
112
Wow, congratulations. Apple in late 2014 is now offering the amount of maternity leave (which we don't know if paid or unpaid) that has been enjoyed in most European countries for several years as a matter of law.

I'm sure it's FAR better than what Samsung is offering.

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Wow, congratulations. Apple in late 2014 is now offering the amount of maternity leave (which we don't know if paid or unpaid) that has been enjoyed in most European countries for several years as a matter of law.

Yeah, come back to us when your companies start paying US$150000/year in salary. Nice try though.
 

MikePLP

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2014
253
112
I can't tell if that's sarcasm but I can assure you that jobs in that salary bracket do exist in Europe.

Name one large company that pays that much for an AVERAGE engineer.

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I can't tell if that's sarcasm but I can assure you that jobs in that salary bracket do exist in Europe.

Anyway, you are obviously missing the point. EU may offer better benefits, but US employees take home lot more money home(especially after taxes).
 

Norbury

macrumors member
Jun 22, 2014
47
1
UK
I'm sure it's FAR better than what Samsung is offering.

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Yeah, come back to us when your companies start paying US$150000/year in salary. Nice try though.

It probably is better than what Samsung are offering to be fair. It just strikes us Europeans as not being particularly amazing.

As for your second comment, er, what? Do you think we're all peasant farmers or something? £100k (rough conversion) would be a high salary here, but certainly not unheard of. Given that the median household income in the USA right now is a little above $50k I would say $150k is a top end salary there too.
 

MikePLP

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2014
253
112
It probably is better than what Samsung are offering to be fair. It just strikes us Europeans as not being particularly amazing.

As for your second comment, er, what? Do you think we're all peasant farmers or something? £100k (rough conversion) would be a high salary here, but certainly not unheard of. Given that the median household income in the USA right now is a little above $50k I would say $150k is a top end salary there too.

Well, we're talking about Apple,not USA average, since the OP was talking about how Apple is not up to EU standard.
 

tevion5

macrumors 68000
Jul 12, 2011
1,966
1,601
Ireland
Yeah and how is that working out for places like Greece, Italy and Spain.

You American snob. These countries among other EU countries are far more human friendly than you could ever imagine.

I'm Irish, but I'd much rather live in any EU country than the USA any day of the week.

EU social benefits are the best in the world. That guy was saying the USA has a more stable economy than the EU overall? Not a hope.

And even if we are on par with each other, the life of the average citizen in the EU is far more comfortable than the USA. Transport networks, crime, poverty, education...the EU is ahead of the USA in all of these areas.

We've had public healthcare for as long as most people can remember. The fact that it is even debated in the USA shows how far behind the USA can be socially.

And the icing on the cake, the poverty level of every single country mentioned by that guy is far lower than the USA.

So in short, "it" is working out fine for us. We don't need advise from people who have social policies from the late 19th century. Thanks.

Here, a USA university can even back me up:
http://sitemaker.umich.edu/salas.356/usa_vs._world

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Yeah, come back to us when your companies start paying US$150000/year in salary. Nice try though.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm but I can assure you that jobs in that salary bracket do exist in Europe.

It's actually hilarious. The level of blind USA patriotism here is shocking. Some people need to google some statistics.

As if the USA is the only country in the world with large MNC's and big salaries...

Have they not heard of these organisations?

They nearly all pay large salaries to the employees of their US branches.
 

CJM

macrumors 68000
May 7, 2005
1,536
1,058
U.K.
'Wellness' always makes me think of that BBC sitcom with Martin Clunes, Reggie Perrin.

WELLNESS PERSON: "Oooh you sad sausage! Do you know what you need?"

REGGIE: "A proper doctor?"
 
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tevion5

macrumors 68000
Jul 12, 2011
1,966
1,601
Ireland
Yes, as are you. Unless you were born a few minutes ago.

I'm also from the present, where there are unfortunately far too many people too stupid to realize the lessons of the past, and that there is no such thing as a free ride.

There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. The bus needs gas to go. And when everyone is jumping on the bus, taking up all of the seats and not helping to pay for it the guy buying the gas is going to get fed up and go buy his own car.

I take it you don't go down with the socialism? Well I would be generally pro socialism, but not full blown communism.

I think, what Europe has is the best system humans have devised so far.

We still get poor people. We still get crime. We still don't have always stable economies.

But, we have less bad stuff than anywhere else.

There is a bracket of people that will always not work, and cause crime and be a drain on the economy. Short of rounding all these people up and killing them in a morally awful fashion, the second best solution has been proven to be...

...give them a bit of help now and then so that they don't become a major issue. Does it mean that hard working people have to give them some of their earnings? Yes. Is that fair? Absolutely freaking not.

But in the long run, it ultimately benefits the taxpayer for the reasons demonstrated by Europe. The world is not fair.

Communism would be fantastic! If some only humans weren't so dependably terrible.

Capitalism is great because it relies on a very trustworthy human trait. Greed. But blind and back and white 'fair' capitalism just leads to anarchy without mediation and regulation.

It's completely wrong that some people get to free load off of hard working folks, like most people are, including those I argue against on this forum perhaps. But as long as we can keep the freeloaders to a minority, we'll get by alright.

I am Irish (thus EU). I am a college student. This is my opinion based on observation and objective analysis.
 

MikePLP

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2014
253
112
----------

[/COLOR]



It's actually hilarious. The level of blind USA patriotism here is shocking. Some people need to google some statistics.

As if the USA is the only country in the world with large MNC's and big salaries...

Have they not heard of these organisations?

They nearly all pay large salaries to the employees of their US branches.

Again, good job for missing the point. This was originally started by someone who criticized Apple because it was worse than EU companies(as a whole). Well, does the AVERAGE EU engineer pay $150k or NOT? HUH? Thank you very much.
 

0000757

macrumors 68040
Dec 16, 2011
3,894
850
The report also profiles Apple's new "wellness center" at its Cupertino headquarters designed to meet the medical needs of its employees. Employees can seek treatment while at work with appointment wait times as short as five minutes.

Roll out the iClinics (or :apple: Clinics, if given their recent naming of things).

Then again, if the lines are as long as they are for the iPhone...
 

MikePLP

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2014
253
112
Again, good job for missing the point. This was originally started by someone who criticized Apple because it was worse than EU companies(as a whole). Well, does the AVERAGE EU engineer pay $150k or NOT? HUH? Thank you very much.

My point? I would much rather work at Apple than work in some random EU company. I will pay for my own benefits and still come out MUCH ahead.
 

paul4339

macrumors 65816
Sep 14, 2009
1,450
733
I, as well as any dad in the USA, agree with you. In 2007 my tech employer (based in California) gave me 2 weeks while an extremely high % of USA companies would give 0-1 week. Now in 2014, my current tech employer (based in NY) still only gives 1 week in the USA.

Although the Even Steven side of me says that moms and dads should get 100% identical time off, my personal belief is that 6-8 weeks for dads should be USA Federal law.

In Canada they have 35 weeks to be shared between the parents how they wish. So, if your partner doesn't work (you can have all 35 weeks).... Or if your partner works but you make less money, you can divide up the parental leave to optimize for income or however you wish.

.
 

mdelvecchio

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2010
3,151
1,149
You too pal. I'm American and I sure hope you aren't because comments like that are just downright embarrassing.

as am i, son. and its no embarrassment to state facts -- Greece and Spain are in a very tough place. their economies are very weak and unemployment is rampant -- 25%! thats ONE in FOUR, dude!

really not sure how you think you can argue that out of existence.
 

Mr Fusion

macrumors 6502a
May 7, 2007
841
1,061
Yeah, there's always a little more. Don't have to pay for it yourself. Share the burden. It'll be fine...

http://online.wsj.com/articles/greeces-coalition-government-to-seek-vote-of-confidence-1412187617

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ital...-dilemma-for-european-central-bank-1412110302

Silly, socialist rabbit...;)
as am i, son. and its no embarrassment to state facts -- Greece and Spain are in a very tough place. their economies are very weak and unemployment is rampant -- 25%! thats ONE in FOUR, dude!

really not sure how you think you can argue that out of existence.
Not sure why you think Spain, Greece & Italy comprise all of Europe. Here's an idea, let's nitpick economies to suit our positions. Oh wait...

Way to fail geography like a true patriot Gentlemen. :rolleyes:
 

tevion5

macrumors 68000
Jul 12, 2011
1,966
1,601
Ireland
Again, good job for missing the point. This was originally started by someone who criticized Apple because it was worse than EU companies(as a whole). Well, does the AVERAGE EU engineer pay $150k or NOT? HUH? Thank you very much.

No, and neither do USA engineers. They get $98500 in the best State, according to google. (https://www.google.ie/search?client...-8&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=ms4tVIW8KaeS7AaG7oAg)

That's about 77000 in Euro. That's about right for an average EU salary.

But, on top of that salary we get something useful for out taxes such as:

  • The Best Education in the World
  • State Run Healthcare (Also the best in the world)
  • Lowest Crime
  • Lowest Poverty
  • Highest Disposable Income

You guys a get a big Army. Have fun with that.

And why are you asking me anyway? It's not my job to disprove your propositions. It's your job to provide evidence for your own alleged facts.
 

davidjearly

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2006
2,264
371
Glasgow, Scotland
Nothing to boast about Apple. My organisation in the UK provides me and my partner with 52 weeks maternity/paternity leave. I get 3 months full pay and 6 months statutory pay, then the remainder is unpaid. That's before I even mention the flexible/home working policy we have that allows us to fit work around our personal life.

This isn't uncommon in the UK and is just another example of the US being so far behind.
 

NorEaster

macrumors regular
Feb 14, 2012
239
23
And what, exactly is wrong with enhancing employee productivity? I'm not sure when it became "cynical" to want your employees available for more of their workday. At the end of the day Apple is a company. Like any other. And they are trying to run a business. It's okay (and quite lucrative, usually) to be humane. But the mission is to be profitable and thrive.



...Wow, I never thought there'd be this much negative reaction to my musings. Take a chill pill folks (pun intended). I'm sure if google or Walmart did the same, someone on this site would make the same remark as mine. In fact, there'd probably be plenty of google / Walmart bashing. That's beside the point though...

I do think there's a down side to this. As an employee, what if I don't want to use my company's doctors? If my company (and immediate manager) are trying to squeeze productivity out of me (as started above by rdlink), I could see my manager questioning why I should visit my own doctor. In fact, I could see my manager strongly persuading me to go visit the company doctor instead.... or even telling me he doesn't believe I'm sick enough to take the day off UNLESS the company doctor clears it. Would this be a common scenario? Probably not... but I could see it happening and I could see this putting employees in uncomfortable positions.

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Yeah and how is that working out for places like Greece, Italy and Spain.

It's actually working out great for places like Sweden. Japan also gives its mothers lots of time off too and I don't see them defaulting on their loans.
 

r0b3

macrumors newbie
Sep 25, 2014
29
0
So as a medical practitioner...I still have a chance at working in Apple HQ? Awesome!:cool::cool:
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
Pretty good, actually. Those mothers are still getting their paid maternity leave and the economies of those countries are not as bad as you're reading in the news.

The UK has 39 weeks of paid maternity leave. It certainly must be economically crumbling right about now by your logic. Maternity leave has very little to do with the state of an economy.

Quebec has 52 weeks and has done in general better than the US. Were just to the north of New-York state, New Hamshire, Vermont and Maine.
 
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