Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
This is great news! I would have killed for something like this as a kid.

High school utterly failed students like myself who wanted to go into computer science and it was hard to save up to buy $60 - $80 programming books when your bi-weekly paychecks were $100.
[doublepost=1510235014][/doublepost]
the worst ide xcode in my life.. pretty sad for them really

So you've literally never used anything else I see...
 
  • Like
Reactions: deanthedev
This is great news! I would have killed for something like this as a kid.

High school utterly failed students like myself who wanted to go into computer science and it was hard to save up to buy $60 - $80 programming books when your bi-weekly paychecks were $100.
[doublepost=1510235014][/doublepost]

So you've literally never used anything else I see...
hmm..
Currently i used visual studio code to edit react-native , debug them in xcode and android studio..

Really weird for me.. you never meet me i said i never used other ide except xcode..

For me, Xcode seem nice to see but totally weird icon location ,interaction and the most annoy where do i clear all debug log.. damm annoying.

In mac, some i prefer old vi, nano just for quick edit rather then open text editor like visual studio code or textwrangler
 
Everyone can code is cool program. I taught myself to code when I was younger and it was a great experience in understanding computers and helping me learn to think carefully. Obviously, not everyone can code since some lack the intelligence or logical capacity. Nor should everyone code since it is a relatively narrow skillset that is incredibly helpful for those who need it but that does not include most people (nor should it ever). But for those who are interested it seems like a great effort for them to develop the skills and I wish I had it when I was starting out.
 
Everyone can code

Says the company that managed to botch autocorrect to butcher our messages every time we try to type “I” and can’t be bothered to release a hot fix for it.
 
Not to be confused with..
latest
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dicelu
Pointless. AI will replace programmers.

AI will replace all other jobs before it replaces programmers. And when it does, it will replace the programmers who are doing repetitive coding and such tasks, like QA and DevOps.
[doublepost=1510246975][/doublepost]
Not to be confused with..
latest

Pretty much this. But only worst. Most of the kids enrolled in this Swift class will be in for a rude awakening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: villicodelirant
While it might be easy to jab at Apple for an alterior motive (i.e. learn how to code in thier language for future App Store inputs) one might want to consider the dismal academic performance of the average US student. I believe the average reading level in the US is still 3rd or 5th grade. Either way it’s abysmal.

It's ironic that you would misspell "ulterior" in the above paragraph :p

Current public curriculums seem to focus on a STEM outline.

Yes, which is insane. I say this having a CS degree and having taught CS in high school.

I don't think a logician and a chemist have very much in common in their work.

It is my opinion that there is no "STEM", "STEM" is a word made up by politicians to mean "non-useless degrees of all kinds".

So to include coding, or other computer languages, into early learning is the best place for such an effort, and useful skills sets for the future

Unpopular opinion: the best time to learn "coding" (i.e. the act of formalizing or, rather, encoding an algorithm in a given programming language) is... when you need to actually program a computer to do something.

The word "coding" gives me a stomach ache whenever it appears in the same sentence as "education" or "mathematics".

What, I think, students need to learn is problem solving, mathematics, formalization of problems, logic, abstraction, abstraction and, well, abstraction.

Otherwise you can teach all the "coding" you want, and you'll be stuck with "factorial" programs that get stuck in a while loop, "coded" in 64 different languages.

I learned to read music when I was six. The main instrument I learned on was the piano. But I can read for other instruments from having learned a basic music language.

In my opinion, "coding" is more like "banging the keys on a piano".

Banging the keys is very entertaining, but it's better to have a clue about modes, keys, the circle of fifths and of course reading actual music (read: algorithms from papers) that you can later play on your own (read: implement in your favourite language).

And now, let the flame start!
[doublepost=1510251377][/doublepost]
Pointless. AI will replace programmers.

That is a very desirable outcome, and makes what I've written above ring all the more true.
In practice, however, program synthesis is not becoming viable in my lifetime or yours.
If it ever does, it is because somebody learned the fundamentals and did some pure, abstraction-heavy research, rather than because an army of Swift programmers banded together and Magically Did It.

If it ever happens, it is still useful to be able to specify and understand programs (see above) and, more importantly... have the formalism down that allows you to build the AI, if you want to stay in business.

(And no, it's a safe bet that, in Earth's lifetime, we're not getting an AI general enough to autonomously devise specifications and program synthesizers from something as general as "computer, how do we obtain world peace please")
 
Last edited:
"Everyone can code" ... as long as you have this $1300 laptop!

I teach programming to middle school kids and the cost to entry for anything to do with Apple makes this a non starter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: villicodelirant
Swift is settling already. The jump from 3-4 is minor in comparison to the baffling that was hellscape of swift 1 - 1.x - 2.

My bigger thought for this is... where are all the jobs to support this? There aren't a huge amount of opportunities to support this in the UK. At all. The App Store race to the bottom pricing structure & Apples 30% cut make it pretty hard to support yourself as an indie developer as it is. I don't see how a large influx of developers does anything except drive down quality as well as, ultimately, pay as multiple people have said. Then you factor in the fact that the same thing is happening in developing countries (and they can really drive the price down) and then at some point you'll find you're at the point where the web dev industry is now which is face down in the gutter looking for pennies.

You'll want more than one language under your belt to do well in this industry but that desire for work across languages comes in time once you've learnt your first I guess. If I was just starting now & had a bunch of Apple kit I'd probably pick Swift too though.
No doubt. My code only needed minor changes to convert it to 4. Package.swift picked up numerous changes, but luckily the Swift 3 Package.swift is still supported. It's been a pretty smooth transition.
 
Pointless. AI will replace programmers.
And at that point we will be done as a humanity

I believe coding will be next to learning a regular language. In my office we have an employee who builds apps for everything for internal use. He even created an app that will read the files created by Adobe Premiere and translate them into excel so we can see if there are errors in the editing compared against a quality control formula. The app substract all the metadata of the file, metadata that is not public.
Coding will be the next thing to put together elements.
That's called "scripting" and it's been "the thing to put things together" for the last fifty years or so. And believe me, writing a script to transform some file requires a wholly different (and much simpler) skillset than the software engineering needed to build complex apps.

This is great and all but their code editor Xcode is hot garbage. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Like there is no excuse for it to be that bad. Xcode doesn't support JavaScript, HTML and CSS out of the box. Apple won't even let people implement all of the missing features as extensions onto Xcode geesh!!! Even free open source editors like Atom and VSCode end up being better options.
I guess Xcode was never meant to support JavaScript or HTML, I always thought of it as an IDE for native development.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gorms
I guess Xcode was never meant to support JavaScript or HTML, I always thought of it as an IDE for native development.
It sucks at that too. I used to kinda like Xcode, but they screwed it up with the Swift transition. Code completion and checking are buggy and unreliable, as are all the other tools like finding references, refactoring, etc. The entire thing randomly crashes or leaks 15GiB of memory sometimes. The Swift compiler itself is horrible. Takes forever and even segfaults sometimes, but it used to be worse. The debugger is so broken that we rely on print statements. It feels great coding in ObjC because all that stuff works fine with it.

The UI has always had issues like no tabs (edit: oops, it has tabs but poor split-window support), general clunkiness with trying to edit multiple things at once, and no Vim controls. Heck, the only reason I don't just use Vim is Apple coding practice demands super long function names, and Swift has complicated syntax rules that I'll never remember, so I need the code checker to eventually flag before I compile and offer the hints like "we randomly changed how String indexes work for the 20th time; here's how to fix."

Sorry for the rant, but I'm sick of both Swift and Xcode getting in the way. I already hate front-end dev enough as it is. The backend stuff I do in Python feels so nice in comparison.
[doublepost=1510337003][/doublepost]
Unpopular opinion: the best time to learn "coding" (i.e. the act of formalizing or, rather, encoding an algorithm in a given programming language) is... when you need to actually program a computer to do something.

The word "coding" gives me a stomach ache whenever it appears in the same sentence as "education" or "mathematics".

What, I think, students need to learn is problem solving, mathematics, formalization of problems, logic, abstraction, abstraction and, well, abstraction.

Otherwise you can teach all the "coding" you want, and you'll be stuck with "factorial" programs that get stuck in a while loop, "coded" in 64 different languages.
I get what you're saying. Definitely not fond of "computer science" classes that teach coding practices. But when you start programming in your spare time, you tend to encounter these conceptual problems, especially if you focus on things like networking, database, machine learning, etc. I remember self-discovering radix sort.
 
Last edited:
It sucks at that too. I used to kinda like Xcode, but they screwed it up with the Swift transition. Code completion and checking are buggy and unreliable, as are all the other tools like finding references, refactoring, etc. The entire thing randomly crashes or leaks 15GiB of memory sometimes. The Swift compiler itself is horrible. Takes forever and even segfaults sometimes, but it used to be worse. The debugger is so broken that we rely on print statements. It feels great coding in ObjC because all that stuff works fine with it.

The UI has always had issues like no tabs, general clunkiness with trying to edit multiple things at once, and no Vim controls. Heck, the only reason I don't just use Vim is Apple coding practice demands super long function names, and Swift has complicated syntax rules that I'll never remember, so I need the code checker to eventually flag before I compile and offer the hints like "we randomly changed how String indexes work for the 20th time; here's how to fix."

Sorry for the rant, but I'm sick of both Swift and Xcode getting in the way. I already hate front-end dev enough as it is.
[doublepost=1510337003][/doublepost]
I get what you're saying. Definitely not fond of "computer science" classes that teach coding practices. But when you start programming in your spare time, you tend to encounter these conceptual problems, especially if you focus on things like networking, database, machine learning, etc. I remember self-discovering radix sort.

Probably won’t change your thoughts much, but Xcode does have tabs now. I just noticed it was one of your grievances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fairuz
Probably won’t change your thoughts much, but Xcode does have tabs now. I just noticed it was one of your grievances.
You're right. I missed that. I guess they used to not, and I gave up on checking if they'd added them yet. Thanks, I'll be using that... except for some reason, it lags and makes the entire window go white for a couple of seconds when I open one :/
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.