Apple Expands 'Everyone Can Code' Initiative to Students Around the World

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Plutonius macrumors 604


    Feb 22, 2003
    New Hampshire, USA
    Of course anyone can code but there is a lot of terrible code out there.

    There is a big difference between just doing it and doing it right.
  2. chrono1081 macrumors 604


    Jan 26, 2008
    Isla Nublar
    This is great news! I would have killed for something like this as a kid.

    High school utterly failed students like myself who wanted to go into computer science and it was hard to save up to buy $60 - $80 programming books when your bi-weekly paychecks were $100.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 9, 2017 ---
    So you've literally never used anything else I see...
  3. alien3dx macrumors 6502a


    Feb 12, 2017
    Currently i used visual studio code to edit react-native , debug them in xcode and android studio..

    Really weird for me.. you never meet me i said i never used other ide except xcode..

    For me, Xcode seem nice to see but totally weird icon location ,interaction and the most annoy where do i clear all debug log.. damm annoying.

    In mac, some i prefer old vi, nano just for quick edit rather then open text editor like visual studio code or textwrangler
  4. jimbobb24 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 6, 2005
    Everyone can code is cool program. I taught myself to code when I was younger and it was a great experience in understanding computers and helping me learn to think carefully. Obviously, not everyone can code since some lack the intelligence or logical capacity. Nor should everyone code since it is a relatively narrow skillset that is incredibly helpful for those who need it but that does not include most people (nor should it ever). But for those who are interested it seems like a great effort for them to develop the skills and I wish I had it when I was starting out.
  5. PizzaBoxStyle macrumors 6502

    Dec 11, 2014
    Apple HQ Cupterino Spaceship
    I can't believe that any thinking and aware professor would sign on to this program.
  6. joshdammit macrumors 6502

    Mar 6, 2013
    Says the company that managed to botch autocorrect to butcher our messages every time we try to type “I” and can’t be bothered to release a hot fix for it.
  7. WWPD macrumors regular


    Aug 21, 2015
    Ten Forward
  8. pat500000 Suspended


    Jun 3, 2015
  9. Dicelu macrumors member

    Jun 2, 2015
    AI will replace all other jobs before it replaces programmers. And when it does, it will replace the programmers who are doing repetitive coding and such tasks, like QA and DevOps.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 9, 2017 ---
    Pretty much this. But only worst. Most of the kids enrolled in this Swift class will be in for a rude awakening.
  10. villicodelirant, Nov 9, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017

    villicodelirant Suspended


    Aug 3, 2011
    It's ironic that you would misspell "ulterior" in the above paragraph :p

    Yes, which is insane. I say this having a CS degree and having taught CS in high school.

    I don't think a logician and a chemist have very much in common in their work.

    It is my opinion that there is no "STEM", "STEM" is a word made up by politicians to mean "non-useless degrees of all kinds".

    Unpopular opinion: the best time to learn "coding" (i.e. the act of formalizing or, rather, encoding an algorithm in a given programming language) is... when you need to actually program a computer to do something.

    The word "coding" gives me a stomach ache whenever it appears in the same sentence as "education" or "mathematics".

    What, I think, students need to learn is problem solving, mathematics, formalization of problems, logic, abstraction, abstraction and, well, abstraction.

    Otherwise you can teach all the "coding" you want, and you'll be stuck with "factorial" programs that get stuck in a while loop, "coded" in 64 different languages.

    In my opinion, "coding" is more like "banging the keys on a piano".

    Banging the keys is very entertaining, but it's better to have a clue about modes, keys, the circle of fifths and of course reading actual music (read: algorithms from papers) that you can later play on your own (read: implement in your favourite language).

    And now, let the flame start!
    --- Post Merged, Nov 9, 2017 ---
    That is a very desirable outcome, and makes what I've written above ring all the more true.
    In practice, however, program synthesis is not becoming viable in my lifetime or yours.
    If it ever does, it is because somebody learned the fundamentals and did some pure, abstraction-heavy research, rather than because an army of Swift programmers banded together and Magically Did It.

    If it ever happens, it is still useful to be able to specify and understand programs (see above) and, more importantly... have the formalism down that allows you to build the AI, if you want to stay in business.

    (And no, it's a safe bet that, in Earth's lifetime, we're not getting an AI general enough to autonomously devise specifications and program synthesizers from something as general as "computer, how do we obtain world peace please")
  11. bonafidecustomer1 macrumors newbie

    Nov 9, 2017
    Seriously, is Tim Cook ever doing anything else than these SJW/Globalization PR stunts?

    What a useless CEO, how about you fix the new macbook pro, among many other things that have went wrong these last 2 years...
  12. spaceywilly macrumors newbie

    Jun 23, 2009
    "Everyone can code" ... as long as you have this $1300 laptop!

    I teach programming to middle school kids and the cost to entry for anything to do with Apple makes this a non starter.
  13. Markoth macrumors 6502


    Oct 1, 2015
    Behind You
    No doubt. My code only needed minor changes to convert it to 4. Package.swift picked up numerous changes, but luckily the Swift 3 Package.swift is still supported. It's been a pretty smooth transition.
  14. Helpfixit macrumors member

    Mar 31, 2015
    Everyone Can Code, but only if that code is compiled on a Fu*@%£g Mac! :apple:
  15. Toutou macrumors 6502a


    Jan 6, 2015
    Prague, Czech Republic
    And at that point we will be done as a humanity

    That's called "scripting" and it's been "the thing to put things together" for the last fifty years or so. And believe me, writing a script to transform some file requires a wholly different (and much simpler) skillset than the software engineering needed to build complex apps.

    I guess Xcode was never meant to support JavaScript or HTML, I always thought of it as an IDE for native development.
  16. CarlJ macrumors 68030


    Feb 23, 2004
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Or any Linux system. You know they ported the compiler, right?
  17. fairuz, Nov 10, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017

    fairuz macrumors 68020


    Aug 27, 2017
    Silicon Valley
    It sucks at that too. I used to kinda like Xcode, but they screwed it up with the Swift transition. Code completion and checking are buggy and unreliable, as are all the other tools like finding references, refactoring, etc. The entire thing randomly crashes or leaks 15GiB of memory sometimes. The Swift compiler itself is horrible. Takes forever and even segfaults sometimes, but it used to be worse. The debugger is so broken that we rely on print statements. It feels great coding in ObjC because all that stuff works fine with it.

    The UI has always had issues like no tabs (edit: oops, it has tabs but poor split-window support), general clunkiness with trying to edit multiple things at once, and no Vim controls. Heck, the only reason I don't just use Vim is Apple coding practice demands super long function names, and Swift has complicated syntax rules that I'll never remember, so I need the code checker to eventually flag before I compile and offer the hints like "we randomly changed how String indexes work for the 20th time; here's how to fix."

    Sorry for the rant, but I'm sick of both Swift and Xcode getting in the way. I already hate front-end dev enough as it is. The backend stuff I do in Python feels so nice in comparison.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 10, 2017 ---
    I get what you're saying. Definitely not fond of "computer science" classes that teach coding practices. But when you start programming in your spare time, you tend to encounter these conceptual problems, especially if you focus on things like networking, database, machine learning, etc. I remember self-discovering radix sort.
  18. Helpfixit, Nov 10, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017

    Helpfixit macrumors member

    Mar 31, 2015

    I know swift has been open sourced, but you still need a mac to deploy an app.
  19. Gorms macrumors 6502


    Aug 30, 2012
    Probably won’t change your thoughts much, but Xcode does have tabs now. I just noticed it was one of your grievances.
  20. fairuz macrumors 68020


    Aug 27, 2017
    Silicon Valley
    You're right. I missed that. I guess they used to not, and I gave up on checking if they'd added them yet. Thanks, I'll be using that... except for some reason, it lags and makes the entire window go white for a couple of seconds when I open one :/
  21. 0997853 Suspended

    Feb 5, 2011
    "Everyone can code"... I wonder who added the iOS calculator bug.

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