The fact remains, Google is capable of gathering and processing data and then delivering data driven solutions across the globe. At the same time Apple is launching from city to city solutions which in many cases are much inferior when compared to Google’s. I hate to say but this makes Apple look like some resource restricted startup trying to peddle their solution in hopes of attracting serious investors so they could actually start developing their solution. If Apple had superior mapping then one could forgive this but unfortunately I believe this is far from being the case.
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Apple Expands Indoor Maps Availability at Airports and Malls
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The fact remains, Google is capable of gathering and processing data and then delivering data driven solutions across the globe. At the same time Apple is launching from city to city solutions which in many cases are much inferior when compared to Google’s. I hate to say but this makes Apple look like some resource restricted startup trying to peddle their solution in hopes of attracting serious investors so they could actually start developing their solution. If Apple had superior mapping then one could forgive this but unfortunately I believe this is far from being the case.
I have to admit, it is EXTREMELY helpful for airports (I travel a lot!). As soon as I land I look to see what is available near the gate where I'm pulling up.
On another note, and mentioned in many other threads, Apple Map vehicles have been spotted EVERYWHERE (in the USA at least) and they are well on their way to having much better capabilities from not only an updated street standpoint, but the ability to edit faster as they will own their data versus "renting" as mentioned above.
Of course, that still won't be true everywhere, particularly outside the USA, but I'm psyched for a seamless "flyover to street view" experience that you won't be able to have with any other mapping app. And corrections will be just as fast as Google (never as fast as crowdsourced Waze).
On another note, and mentioned in many other threads, Apple Map vehicles have been spotted EVERYWHERE (in the USA at least) and they are well on their way to having much better capabilities from not only an updated street standpoint, but the ability to edit faster as they will own their data versus "renting" as mentioned above.
Of course, that still won't be true everywhere, particularly outside the USA, but I'm psyched for a seamless "flyover to street view" experience that you won't be able to have with any other mapping app. And corrections will be just as fast as Google (never as fast as crowdsourced Waze).
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Seems to be the norm on here lately. Mods don’t seem to be enforcing it. Been in the beta threads much? 30 posts saying they are “downloading now...”
Seems to be the norm on here lately. Mods don’t seem to be enforcing it. Been in the beta threads much? 30 posts saying they are “downloading now...”
Yea, when I owned the X I never had an issue with the notch digging into content like that (not saying it doesn't exist). Only with certain videos would it force you to cut out content, and that was few and far between from my usage. I'll update the original post so people don't get the wrong idea. When I saw the pic I figured it was a poorly cropped marketing image.This is how it really looks like on X, screenshot is from Schönefeld Airport.
Author probably took screenshot on his iPhone X and put that inside iPhone X marketing frames which resulted in this overlap.
Google has also been at it A LOT longer than Apple. Some things simply take time. I imagine mapping the entire globe is one of those things that takes more than 5 years to get robust. You can’t say Apple is not improving Maps, because I’ve seen it first-hand myself. And considering how long they’ve been doing it, I would say Apple has done a pretty good job.
While we’re talking about global efforts, how come Apple doesn’t get enough credit in the areas where they DO lead the industry in global deployment and scale? Siri, the App Store, iTunes, etc all operate in MANY more countries compared to Amazon for example, which is mainly US-only in many of their efforts. I don’t see the pitchforks pointed at Amazon in these cases. But Apple....yea screw them, lets grade everything on a curve.
Nope, TomTom’s maps are not much better in Europe. Apple really need to change their main mapping data provider fast.
I could have used this last week. My wife asked me to figure out her connection since her first flight was delayed. I tried both Apple Maps and Google maps. They offered suggestions like exit the airport drive 100 m re enter the airport... Even when I made sure they were giving me pedestrian data it was exit the airport, walk 100 m re-enter airport.
I think it was google rather than Apple that I finally forced the right route. Then when I sent it to myself to verify it twisted and turned and decided to exit the airport at the far end and walk back to the other entrance.
I think it was google rather than Apple that I finally forced the right route. Then when I sent it to myself to verify it twisted and turned and decided to exit the airport at the far end and walk back to the other entrance.
TomTom maps are Tele Atlas maps which are actually very good almost everywhere. However, Apple didn’t buy the full map data from TomTom. It’s collection of data from different sources. How do I know this? Because if you compare TomTom data to Apple Maps data the TomTom data is correct and Apple Maps is incorrect. I use TomTom mobile navigation a lot but at the same time Apple Maps can be very inconsistent.
This is weird. Money-wise, Apple could easily buy TomTom, Tele Atlas and HERE maps as a bonus, let alone get a licence to use their data fully. Something else must be going on there.
Yep, it’s strange. Apple is using numerous data sources from TomTom to Waze and everything between. However, the mapping companies normally pay for official map sources (data by government run map data providers) and integrate that data on top of their own data. I don’t think Apple is using the official map data at all. This data is expensive but can be extremely accurate and detailed. Detail goes far far beyond any roadmap data but one can still selectively integrate that data to mobile applications. Let’s say that you would have foot paths for pedestrians in parks etc. Apple Maps or any other service could include this or similar fine grain data but cost of detailed data is higher than just the road network data.
As someone who lives in Leeds, the Trinity Shopping centre is a surprising (almost weird) but welcomed addition; it's an absolute pig to navigate around and is laid out in the most unusual manner!
you know what sounds like a good idea for the indoor map? the PATH in toronto. That **** is so confusing and hard to find your way and their map doesnt tell you where you are and points to the direction you're facing. would be nice to have the indoor map does this
This is what I can’t understand. Google maps offer a much higher level of detail, maps.me (based on OpenStreetMap) do too and Apple has more funds than both of them combined. UI-wise Apple Maps are the nicest to use, so why can’t they just incorporate a very accurate and free OpenStreetMap data in? Would be great.
On the first quote, there is more going on, much more going on, with both Apple and MS. Also, as I've written elsewhere about TeleAtlas, that mapping company within TomTom has always been a PITA to deal with - mapping updates from them always took at least a year and riddled with bugs, and that was 15 years ago - nothing's changed with their work in period and quality.
On the second quote and the post above by one more, there's much more to "mapping" and the effort to get it to our iPhones. With your username, Nuvi, I'd expect that you'd know much more about this industry?!
Companies like mine generate data when developing an project parcel, it's plotted onto paper and special sheet material and submitted to a county surveyor, and much of the digital data is transmitted to the surveyor. The surveyor's office will eventually tie that digital data into a full map of their jurisdiction; in the Portland Metro area, a multi-jurisdictional agency (Metro) buys/leases that data and incorporates it into their GIS system. Also, if I've consigned an aerial photograph for that project, I'll resell that information to the county and/or Metro with some aerials costing upwards of $30,000 each but generally in the range of $10k-25k; some areas are "flown" twice every year by state/provincial agencies at a lower resolution for the purpose of evaluating the condition of forests, waterways, and the like - those too get resold to buyers. Tying all of it together is very time-consuming - from the time I get started on a project it's likely 3-4 years before it's platted and approved, and only then the digital data starts making its way to an end-user like Metro and another 6-12 months before it shows up on our iPhones. Aerials really only get consigned when there's a boom in development, there was a gap in aerial updates from 2011 to 2016/7 in the areas I work in due to the lack of new homebuilding - a lot of what's getting built out now was actually platted 6-10 years ago...Google Maps was available on my S60 touchscreen personal phone and WinCE iPaq starting in 2005, using TeleAtlas mapping as their base. Shortly thereafter the price being offered for my work plummeted, with the "client" giving the product away at no cost while being subsidized by ads and POI payments, but my costs and those of others in my industry didn't go down - we generally were less inclined to submit updates when we didn't have to. Nokia's purchases of smart2go and Navteq and TomTom's purchase of TeleAtlas in the following few years also complicated the industry on my end, and IMHO that's when Google started out driving the world. There's more but it's just blah, blah, blah and my GF is showing up soon to take me to lunch...
There are, IMO, changes coming for both MS and Apple, they're already showing up in MS's mapping product. In 2015, Nokia finally gave up on Ovi Maps and put Navteq up for bids. There was lots of chatter about the development on my end, it became apparent in early 2015 of that year - informally, unofficially that the BMW/Daimler/Audi group was the preferred buyer. And, in May of that year, while I was out on job sites in rural OR and WA, within days of each other, cars with cameras (like Google's) with "Apple" and "Bing" drove by - job sites nowhere near cities. On my Windows Phone, a few months ago updated street view images from May 2015 started showing up. In the Windows Map app and in Bing Maps, both updated aerials from 2016 started showing up. Late last year Apple's macOS and iOS aerials were also updated in 2D view and started showing up in 3D view a couple of months ago. Also, in MS's Maps apps (but not in the web version), their data source is now listed as "2018 Microsoft Corporation, 2018 HERE". MS's updated web portal started showing up in preview last year with a new POI metaphor, and it's integrated in their Win OS/mobile apps now. I actually prefer the Win Phone navigation to anything on iOS (I'm running a custom Win10 ROM on a $30 Lumia 640, the ROM still gets updates monthly directly from MS - too bad they've given up on it for next year...).
IMO this is the year Apple starts breaking away from TomTom. Good riddance.
Fellas, fellas, I know this is MacRumors and Google will get defended irrationally here but come on.
From Wikipedia:
GMaps: February 8, 2005; 13 years ago
AM: June 11, 2012; 4 years ago
This is 6 years vs 13 years
I apologize I thought people knew Goog had a heft lead on Apple.
So now I gotta ask, do you guys think Apple is making moves faster than Google has? I would say so.
Apple obviously has more resources and greater pull in their home country. Its easier to start with America.
Yes you can complain but complaining about content in your country on a forum is kinda stupid. Here you go: https://www.apple.com/feedback/
Keep in mind, Apple has pull in America. Government pull. More employees. American CEO/higher ups that knows American countries. They will focus on America first to get it on par with competitors that have years lead on them. Then go elsewhere when they feel confident.
Also, Goog is a data company. Lets not forget that. They have years of taking user data (sometimes without permission). Apple needs to take a safer approach to user data. I wouldn't doubt the stance Goog takes to privacy impacts <positively> their products.
So we have a company behind another company due to years doing it, and different stances to data acquisition. Of course AM is updated in America the most (and other things like Apple New, Apple Pay, etc are exclusive/updated in America the most)
Apple Maps launched using data from other sources because they needed a replacement for Google Maps ASAP. It was obvious even back then that this was not going to result in data as good as Google's. Apple's often talks about the benefits of owning the hardware stack, but Google sees a similar benefit for its web services in owning the data.
I believe, or at least I hope, that all of these Apple mapping cars are on a long-term project to replace their rented map data with their own. It may be more expensive to maintain, but it's the smart thing to do competitively.
I believe, or at least I hope, that all of these Apple mapping cars are on a long-term project to replace their rented map data with their own. It may be more expensive to maintain, but it's the smart thing to do competitively.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Since Waze is owned by Google, what actual options does Apple have to bring their maps accuracy to the same level, worldwide?
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Let’s also not forget that Google, who already had a lead, bought Waze, solidifying their lead even further. And what stopped Apple from acquiring Waze and/or HERE when they went up for sale?
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Running Apple cars all over the world quite frequently? I doubt it, as I have never seen an Apple car near to where I live, but I did see Google’s one climbing up our driveway four years ago.
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Thank you, and what you're asking is fairly simple to address, in a nutshell, with the caveats that deep, dark financial posturing lies afoot and it depends on how much money Apple wants to spend.
First, there's aerial photos. Look up MrSID and JPEG 2000 file formats - they're key to the back end, the first is lossless and the second is lossy, but it's the ability to embed metadata in each format that makes them valuable. When I consign an aerial, I get a MrSID file as a deliverable - each pixel is scaled, down to a pixel representing a 6-inch square - not bad from around 21k feet up, and there's an anchor point to work with, and this file is generally XREF'd in as you'd reference a file in PS, FCPX, or any GIS/CAD application. They're referenced in from a server largely due to the fairly large file size - a high-res file that generally covers acres or hectares. For viewing by a client, the MrSID file is converted to a TIFF file that doesn't contain the metadata. For later processing not in house, the image file is converted to JPEG 2000 that does contain the metadata. The metadata in the image file is tied/anchored to the relevant 0,0,0 reference point. Generally, this aerial is the only raster file we work with in a project no matter the file format. Remember this bit, the anchoring part...
Almost all of the remaining work that's relevant is vector-based and, again, tied to an anchor point (survey control points IOW). Depending on the application being used, just about any kind of output can be generated to be processed in another application. The two beasts in the room are Autodesk's AutoCAD and Bently MicroStation - they've been around for decades. Both are extensible, and extraordinarily powerful, with Bently's app actually having a built-in environment that mimics - not emulates - the entire AutoCAD command environment. The file format of choice is AutoCAD's DXF - DXF files can be opened by dozens of applications, even Adobe Illustrator, which I use to dress up a viewable image for presentations. The point here is that these files are vector-based, and DXF files and variants of them include a metadata database generally in 3D and they can be edited and amended. The accuracy is only as only as good as the original source files, of course. Almost all of the work I get from surveyors is accurate to one-tenth of a foot (a little over an inch). (Side note: architects think in sixteenths of an inch, engineers and surveyors think in tenths of a foot - don't get in the middle of that argument...).
FWIW, I generally don't do "TL;DR". I use dictation software, it's quicker for me...
When I started seeing Google's vehicles around my project sites, several years ago now, their drivers were gathering what would be street view images and verifying street sign names. The latter bit must have been a bit of a nightmare in cities like Paris, where a street name can go for miles or one city block - ugh. What I would have done, using an example in the US but very similar elsewhere in the world with a few exceptions, is buy/lease GIS data and a county map directly from each county surveyor and pay someone to tie in that data to their "world map" - right now, they're already doing that with TomTom as the middleman and paying the vig for their work...
There's a couple of issues with all of this. A frustration that I have long held with TeleAtlas is the inaccuracy of their mapping due to not properly setting control points - control point of the base of the map (the "picture" that we see) is not aligned with the control point related to POIs and addresses, which leads to your house being around a mile down the road from where it's actually at. For Google, for Benz owners, for real estate agents and a bunch of the rest of us using devices that rely on TeleAtlas data - that's a problem (duh), and I only get that stuff fixed when I hire my Dutch translator. I've lost hair and time over this crap, and I'm not the only one. Google addressed this by hiring a bunch of drivers and investing billions - that's billions with a "B" - in high-resolution imagery satellites to take pictures of the world; Google sold those satellites to an imagery company last year with an agreement that Google will have access to products from that company.
Regarding the politicking, that's a bit of a tricky one. If Apple really wants to get a decent product in its devices, I'd approach Verizon with a bit of coin on the table. Verizon owns AOL, which owns MapQuest - believed to be the second-most widely used mapping service after Google's product. Going "open-source" here might not be an option, contractually, as AFAIK the open-source options rely partly/wholly on MapQuest data for mapping and traffic/routing (plus OSRM - "Open Source Routing Machine"). With the way Verizon is closing down some of their purchases, they might be open to selling MapQuest to Apple.
In closing this out, Apple could just throw money at base data and then overlay their own custom work on top of it, just as they've been leasing base data from providers around the world. Mercedes has told the owners of its older vehicles that last year is the end of map updates - they are TeleAtlas-based (and about as inaccurate as Apple Maps is in some areas!) - and they're starting to put HERE WeGo map data in their newer vehicles (I'm not moving on from my E63 anytime soon anyways...). Two of my largest clients are moving away from TeleAtlas as well, buying data from Verizon's MapQuest, and another one is buying direct from MS. I wouldn't be surprised if TomTom is in its second phase of panic (the first being when their nav device prices tanked after Google Maps hit the street) and considering shopping TeleAtlas around.
Apple's farming out some of this work to designers/engineers in India leads me to believe that they're serious about the next step, relinquishing direct control over this work, incorporating drones for detail work, seeing Apple vehicles on the road. Yes, their work can be very accurate. Still, IMO, they've got to cut TeleAtlas loose, at least here in the US. FWIW, I have used a TomTom nav in Europe, it was great but I'd rather have Navteq/HERE data in North America. Over and out!
It’s mystery to me to. Just like the NZ commenter above. And you would think that considering the stick Apple has got for the last six years it would have thrown some serious resources at it, so it could not only fix accuracy and information, but take it to the competition with these sort of features. It’s almost like the negotiations for airport and mall maps is done by one single (very) senior employee in between trips for his arthritis treatment. When he isn’t getting sleep apnea therapy.
On the plus side, Apple is clearly getting improvement in accuracy under the hood as well as UI. And this is reflected in the fact that Apple is confident enough it has opened up CarPlay to google maps, Waze and one would assume eventually other nav apps tomTom go.
Here is a more graphical illustration with six different navigation apps. Four of them show a correct layout, while Apple Maps & TomTom Go both get it wrong. The road layout in the area in question was changed over a year ago.
The correct road layout is circled green, incorrect - red:
Apple Maps (wrong)
Google Maps (correct)
HERE (correct)
maps.me (correct)
TomTom Go (wrong)
Waze (correct)
The correct road layout is circled green, incorrect - red:
Apple Maps (wrong)
Google Maps (correct)
HERE (correct)
maps.me (correct)
TomTom Go (wrong)
Waze (correct)
Indeed, it looks like the main problem for Apple Maps comes from TeleAtlas/TomTom, so if Apple managed to source their mapping data from Navteq/HERE instead, it would instantly make Maps better worldwide. Thanks a lot for your input and let’s hope they dump TeleAtlas asap.
Your words could be valid, but Google showed that prior experience doesn't matter.
TomTom (whose Maps Apple leases): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TomTom
Founded 1991 - 27 years ago, one would say, huge database right?
In 2008, they incorporated Tele Atlas. Tele Atlas is a Netherlands-based company founded in 1984 which delivers digital maps and other dynamic content for navigation and location-based services, including personal and in-car navigation systems, and provides data used in a wide range of mobile and Internet map applications. Since July 30, 2008, the company has been a wholly owned subsidiary of automotive navigation system manufacturer TomTom.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tele_Atlas
So they both have YEARS OF COMBINED know-how, maps, databases, tools, GIS software, field operators, field checkers, device designers.
And Google showed them. It doesn't matter.
So do you think that ways of gathering data, now, with ubiquitous Uber-like services, satellite maps from different vendor, Bing, Nokia, Here, different sets of data, iPhones, 1 billion active iOS devices, etc. ARE THE SAME as they were when Google Maps started?
We can all defend and kill for Apple's walled garden, HomePod limitation to Apple Music only, and many more, but their incompetence in Maps department is just astounding.
PS I see I have to iterate, Google Maps is also an american company, with ties to the US government and they still provide much better service than Apple Maps worldwide.
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That's a simple answer.
We don't bother about things we don't like. Amazon could be non-existent for Polish people : )
And who says we don't praise Apple when we should. It's just a post about Maps so we comment Maps.
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They are leasing data from TomTom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TomTom
Founded in 1991 and headquartered in Amsterdam, TomTom was originally named Palmtop Software, founded by Peter-Frans Pauwels, Pieter Geelen, Harold Goddijn and Corinne Vigreux.[2] The company currently has 4,600 employees worldwide and sells products in over 50 countries. It has 56 offices in 37 countries.
And TomTom bought Tele Atlas:
Tele Atlas is a Netherlands-based company founded in 1984 which delivers digital maps and other dynamic content for navigation and location-based services, including personal and in-car navigation systems, and provides data used in a wide range of mobile and Internet map applications.
Which handles mapa data since 1984.
4 years before even Google was established.
Google just proved that it is not about time, but about the resources, which Apple doesn't want to assign.
With todays tech, differences between both of them could be negligible.
But Apple Maps cars aren't even trying to get, for example Poland:
https://maps.apple.com/vehicles/
Whereas Google Cars have been here COUPLE OF TIMES.
Look, Google made it, to be on many Polish street 3 or even more times: 2012,2013, 2014
But they don't have to be here personally, even simple satellite image is outdated:
Google Maps 2018:
And with Apple Maps you don't even see the beginnings of the construction site of the road or the school:
Yep, nailed the source of the issues with Apple's Maps, I did...
A couple of more bits, more to the points. First, bit is that, in my experience, not an opinion, an element of TomTom's routing lies with the companies that actually physically drive the routes and who, in turn, provide traffic updates. TomTom, and Apple by proxy, are pretty much last in getting routes driven to check for route clearances and traffic updates - to wit, our Corps of Engineers breached a roadway near a project site and it's no longer a through road; I notified TomTom (and Apple) 3 years ago and it's still navigable in Apple Maps while the other mapping entities cleared it up in a matter of days. Most of the routing companies drive roadways regularly, I'll not see changes in TomTom/Apple maps in clearing up routing issues for days, sometimes after the issue has been removed or resolved...
Last bit, far more constructive and a recommendation here. Here in the US there are two traffic data suppliers that provide - directly - their own navigation apps, and one of them partners with another navigation app provider; the former two are free and the latter is free with IAPs. The first app is named after the company - Sigalert - they generate their own traffic data with the downside of their app is generally tied to metropolitan areas. The second app is also named after their company - INRIX - and this is the one I recommend in the US but they have a presence pretty much worldwide; INRIX actually gets data directly from millions of enabled vehicles (including truck fleets) that are on the road around the world plus they also have presences in transportation agencies around the world. The free app that has IAPs is Telenav's Scout, which was formerly known as "Skobbler", and it is regional in the sense that they'll use different mapping sources depending on the region - Navteq, Google, OpenStreetMap - and they use INRIX's traffic data.
Two advantages to the INRIX and Scout apps - their traffic data is refreshed every 60 seconds instead of the typical 6 minute interval found in other apps, as INRIX is the collector and aggregator of traffic data. They've had staff directly inside the DOT traffic rooms that I've been in. An advantage of INRIX's app is that the app also provides real-time route changes due to weather issues as their services are tied to the millions of road sensors embedded in roadways in addition to the sensors embedded in millions of vehicles worldwide. INRIX's app is free, zero ads, has predictive arrival times based on different times based on route loading history, and you can not use an account or use an account - that's up to you. An advantage of the Scout app is that, for around US$5 one can buy downloadable maps for a region (US$15 gets worldwide maps).
Sigalert gets me a one-tap oversight of the region I'm in (Seattle/Portland/Bay Area/LA/NYC are my frequented areas), INRIX gets me where I need to go, and Google Maps finds a decent restaurant or greasy spoon. INRIX's app is also iPad friendly - I use it on my LTE Air 2, so I don't have to squint at a tiny screen! My GF is often in the UK and EU and she uses INRIX when she's not using the train to get about while on that side of The Pond. My last 2¢ on this matter! Cheers!
I don't think it is an ether/or solution. In some countries TomTom is better. I think that you could work out which is which and work out who to default to, or source both, regularly identify inconsistencies and have someone fix them before pushing out to the clients.