Apple Expected to Announce Arm-Based Mac Plans at WWDC, Transition Away From Intel to Begin in 2021

[MistahT]

If this transition means more affordable Macs across the board, I’m in!

I doubt the transition will be more affordable. The future used to be one chip that could do it all with huge instruction sets. We saw with ipads and iphones apple envisions separating out chip features for power consumption. I don't like this idea and will probably shift back to windows for my desktop.

 

[DNichter]

This is awesome, I am excited to see where they go with this. Hopefully with a hardware revamp/new focus, they do the same with macOS. I still think there is a ton of potential on the platform, but they need to fix the performance issues and overall inconsistencies in macOS. It has been terrible lately.

 

[Azrael9]

An interesting paragraph from the original Bloomberg article:

Yes. That's what this is all about. Performance per watt. Sexy laptops. Thinner.

The iPad is just the messenger...

If they can leverage Mac ARM margins for profits and more affordability for customers...

Apple could be selling more than 4 million Macbooks per quarter.

This could be huge.

Azrael.

 

[cmaier]

I think we’re hitting a point where the average user has more power than they know what to do with anyway. Sure the power users and professionals have plenty of cause for top of the line performance but most people buying a laptop or home computer aren’t going to have any problems doing anything they can think of with a middle of the pack machine.

That’s another thing people have been saying for 15 years.

More power enables more functions that we can’t even imagine yet. Look at what an iphone can do today vs. what the original iphone could do.

 

[windowsblowsass]

Given that the MP is by definition modular, what’s to stop them from offering a board that lets it run ARM MacOS?
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Yes, not buying an ARM Mac is indeed a bad move.
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IBM was a “relatively smaller firm?”

IBM developed the architecture but wasn’t the ones continually working on it for Apple. You had places like motorola doing that and it wasn’t the companies primary focus. Eventually even moto spun off that whole division.

 

[RowellE]

My wallet is ready for whenever they release an ARM-based 12-14inch MB/MBA.

 

[NT1440]

That’s another thing people have been saying for 15 years.

More power enables more functions that we can’t even imagine yet. Look at what an iphone can do today vs. what the original iphone could do.

Just curious given you’re obviously well versed. Are there any free publications doing the deep level chip analysis like Chipworks used to do?

 

[Smearbrick]

Once again... this is not confirmed by Apple. This is all guessing and speculation. In fact, this is the same guessing and speculation that has been going on for years, and it always ends up being partially, if not completely, wrong!

 

[cmaier]

IBM developed the architecture but wasn’t the ones continually working on it for Apple. You had places like motorola doing that and it wasn’t the companies primary focus. Eventually even moto spun off that whole division.

Nope. I worked at exponential technology back in those days, developing the PowerPC x704. We were competing with IBM and its designers, not Motorola. The high end stuff was all IBM. The 601, 604, 620, etc. were designed by IBM and fabbed by IBM and Motorola.
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Just curious given you’re obviously well versed. Are there any free publications doing the deep level chip analysis like Chipworks used to do?

Not that I have seen, no. Sadly. You have to purchase reports for lots of money.

 

[4487549]

Rewind to this, Steve's words still preach a decade on

Love this. If only the next transition was to include the option for AMD CPU's and NVIDIA GPU's in their high-end models...

 

[Jon Rowlison]

Now EVERYONE with an Apple laptop will have that iPad pro without touchscreen and non-removable keyboard they always wanted.

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

It's not just about Windows. I use my Mac for development work with Linux VMs, with Intel platforms as the target. It was always great to have a platform with MacOS that has Unix underpinnings and all the usual commandline tools, but is still well supported with commercial software as well…

I really sympathize. I see this coming as well. I also was about to face replacing some old IT equipment. I was (and am) really tempted by the iPadPro's art and drawing abilities. But I NEED a computer that runs computer things, because I need Linux VMs, ability to run a real Text Editor, maybe even an IDE, some very basic word processing and image manipulation, and the ability to have Firefox open with eleventy-billion tabs.

I love my iPad, and I like the idea of the iPad pro. But it cannot do everything. Apple seems to really want us to buy iPads. I don't even think I can change default fonts on the thing.

I'm typing this on a new Lenovo Flex 14", which is an excellent, low-cost "computer." Windows is perfectly fine. But I saved $1200 on my budget with this machine and can still get an iPadPro when I want it.
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Does not matter. Apple's target is teenagers spending their parent's money or drug users/dealers wanting to look fashionable and popular. Neither need 1000 threads to take selfies and snap chat.

Troll has a point. Apple is a consumer-oriented company that makes consumer devices. This is nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[retrospek]

I rely on being able to run Parallels all day as I need a Windows environment for work.. Probably stupid question but would Parallels (or Bootcamp) still work on an ARM machine ?

 

[Azrael9]

stop dreaming and look AROUND carefully , ARM is waaay behind in high end CPU , there is NOTHING near 1/10 th of AMD 64 cores threadripper performance not even 32 cores one , and this is just the beginning expect new AMD Generation to give you even higher clocks and maybe 128 cores in the very near future ... ARM cant do that not in 20 years.

We don't have to 'dream'.

The news articles speak for themselves.

It's happening. Whether you like it or not.

Azrael.

 

[cmaier]

I rely on being able to run Parallels all day as I need a Windows environment for work.. Probably stupid question but would Parallels (or Bootcamp) still work on an ARM machine ?

Nope (at least not to run x86 windows, and most likely not at all)

 

[xxray]

Whilst I 100% look forward to this and ANY improvements that can be made to help computers run faster.
I still wish the people who say how fast ARM runs on a Phone/Tablet could be made to understand, both those devices are running a VERY light OS and apps designed specifically for them.

If Apple put an ARM chip in a, dare I say it "Proper Computer" running a full heavyweight OS like MacOS or Windows 10, then load up full heavyweight programs to run on it. Photoshop, 3D Cad etc etc.

And the ARM chips does all this and blasts past Intel and AMD I will be shocked/stunned and very happy indeed.

I suspect however this is not possible (yet) And Apple will come up with some cheat?
Like a special OS and/or special Apps to make them able to run on some cut-down laptop.

Please tell me I'm wrong if you think I am
I would love to be proven wrong.

“Inside Apple, tests of new Macs with the Arm-based chips have shown sizable improvements over Intel-powered versions, specifically in graphics performance and apps using artificial intelligence, the people said. Apple’s processors are also more power-efficient than Intel’s, which may mean thinner and lighter Mac laptops in the future.”

From the Bloomberg article.

 

[Azrael9]

Of course. It hasn’t been released yet. Then you’ll see it.

Intel hasn’t substantially increased performance in years. Mac on a 5nm TSMC ARM will blow away Intel on a 14nm++++ (or even 10nm) node. And that’s not even taking into account that Apple’s cpu designers blow away Intel’s.

INtel. Paper tiger.

Apple are going to burn them like toast in CPU performance.

Intel sat on their lead. Time to pay the price.

Azrael.
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LOL. You think Apple is going to be using some off-the-shelf ARM?

People thought it was impossible when Apple came out with 64-bit ARM for iphone that was 50% faster than any competition, too.

Look where the puck is going, not where it’s been.
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If they lose every MP purchaser as a customer, that’s not a lot of lost customers.

Apple already chased away most of their Mac Pro customers to x86.

So what's left is probably why it costs 6k to buy one. That's not alot of customers.

Who knows, they may come back again when the Mac ARM Pro toasts the Intel cpus in it.

And Apple will probably happily charge them another 40k for the privilege.

Azrael.

 

[dogslobber]

An iPad Pro has a faster processor than most Intel laptops, why do you associate them with being slow?

The fastest ARM V the slowest Intel.

 

[Azrael9]

This is already the case. All of Apple's operating systems run Darwin under the hood, and things like iOS and watchOS and tvOS have been this way since day one (macOS has been this way since OS X but prior to that it was a different situation).

Darwin (operating system) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And they've been released on schedule with each other for years now.

And the concept of Universal Purchases basically means all the App Stores are the same now - you can buy an app and get the iOS, tvOS, watchOS and macOS versions all at the same time.

So... done and done. This is why a lot of people aren't even going to notice this change.

I agree with this.

1 billion devices and selling tens of millions more each quarter.

Intel is inconsequential in Apple iOS terms. The Mac is going to get more consequential.

INtle are history. They just don't know it yet.

Azrael.

 

[MallardDuck]

Corporate Mac Usage 2006-2020 RIP
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I rely on being able to run Parallels all day as I need a Windows environment for work.. Probably stupid question but would Parallels (or Bootcamp) still work on an ARM machine ?

No. Parallels and Fusion virtualize the CPU, not emulate it. Both will stop working, and while they could move to an emulation option, Boot Camp cannot.

 

[jerryk]

I rely on being able to run Parallels all day as I need a Windows environment for work.. Probably stupid question but would Parallels (or Bootcamp) still work on an ARM machine ?

My guess is Apple will have a x86 VM solution for their ARM based systems. Intel processors already use a RISC core. Apple could do something similar to support windows and other x86 based OSes that utilize the CISC instruction set.

We should all tune into WWDC to see what Apple has in mind for this issue.

 

[maflynn]

An iPad Pro has a faster processor than most Intel laptops, why do you associate them with being slow?

Which laptops, do you have the numbers to back it up. For instance, is the iPad Pro faster then my i7-9750h Razer Blade using a RTX 2070?

 

[Azrael9]

You raise a good point, its very likely that Intel has hit rock bottom, and they're already on the path to significant performance gains - time will tell for sure but I believe the early misteps will be fixed soon.

Another question can Apple's ARM compete with what AMD is presenting

AMD have done a great job. But they've only just drawn level in single core or gaming performance.

Fair play to the multi-core performance. But that's only because of their more core chiplet tech'. So yeah, a 16 core will out perform a 10 on cinebench.

Pound for pound. AMD have probably drawn level overall.

I'd take an outside bet on a 12 core Mac ARM thumping Intel and AMD over on single core. And a potential turning over on multicore.

We'll have to see the benchmarks. Ofc.

The hardware. (is it going to be thinner? Sexier? New products you can't get with Intel heaters?)
The software.
New paradigms? Ie. What does it mean for the future.

Intel had their chance with the iPhone. They blew it.

Apple must be pretty confident if they're leaking stories to Bloomberg about their cpus outperforming INtels.

But that doesn't surprise. Intel cpus have sat still for over half a decade with incremental performance updates for heavy coin.

Azrael.

 

[ingambe]

Cool
We will see if benchmarks score translate to real world performance

But it should have been done sooner, the macbook 12" was the perfect product for this transition

 

[faust]

I don't think a meaningful co-processor that's ARM would be unwarranted, but if they plan to switch their entire lineup to solely ARM, there are going to be major compatibility issues with lots of apps, and I think a lot of game developers like Square-Enix won't bother to port FFXIV Online(my major game) to an ARM based system since they'll have to do a complete rework. I doubt a compatibility layer like Microsoft did with their ARM based Surface will be equal to a natively running x86-64 system, and so I guess my decision to move away from Apple products has been a good one because honestly I'm not prepared to have a $1000+ device locked to Apple's app store, which is undoubtedly going to happen.

Apple could switch to Ryzen 4000 for their laptops, and upcoming Ryzen chips for their desktops, save a bit of money, and include an ARM co-processor, but it's doubtful they will.