Apple Expected to Announce Arm-Based Mac Plans at WWDC, Transition Away From Intel to Begin in 2021

[1989MacSE30]

The slavish dedication to Intel’s bad architecture has held back the personal computer industry for decades. Making a jump is risky but may ultimately be very rewarding for Apple and their customers alike.
There will need to be a good enough emulator to run some virtualized PCs, but many of us have shifted some of our virtual workloads to AWS and other cloud environments. That will continue.

 

[skogkatt]

Wow, I was this close to buy a MBA but now... I guess I'll wait at least next week, if not next year (gentle patting my old and tired 2011 MBP... "Good boy").

 

[jlc1978]

Will regulators now insist that Apple spin off its processor business because:

1. Business model too vertical, and

2. Its proprietary processors will far outstrip the PC choices, resulting in an unfair advantage? (Looking at you, EU)

That would make no sense. Apple already uses their own chips in the iPhone/iPad lines; vertical integration does not seem to be an issue. Given Apple's ting market share compared to Intel based PCs and can't fathom how anyone could consider using their own processors giving them an unfair advantage. Then again, regulators often live in their own world.
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This makes me really miss Steve and the way he presented. Especially in hindsight it really shows how he works and loved what he did. Even from day one I thought Tim was putting on some sort of show or was being forced to be on stage. His mind might be right for the job, but his stage presence does not exude greatness like Steve.

Cook is an engineer. Jobs was a showman. Different personalities with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[retta283]

Interesting 15 years it has been. We started with white iMacs and MacBooks, the age of the iPod. Markets have shifted, and Mac consumers have too. Whether this will be good or bad, I cannot say. It has advantages and disadvantages.

I must however echo other's sentiments that I will not continue with Mac after this transition, unless I can still run Windows decently on the ARM Macs. More power to those that stay, and I may return in the future, but for now my work will be transitioning when the switch happens.

 

[cmaier]

I hope they only do this for low end macs. I use too many virtual machines for this ever to work for me professionally.

Given that their ARM chip will trounce intel, it will likely be for high end macs first. I hear something competing with the 16” MBP is first up.
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Will regulators now insist that Apple spin off its processor business because:

1. Business model too vertical, and

2. Its proprietary processors will far outstrip the PC choices, resulting in an unfair advantage? (Looking at you, EU)

How is that advantage “unfair?” And when has any government broken up a vertically integrated company that didn’t get that way by purchasing suppliers?
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I half hope I'm proven wrong on this and half very excited, but I have a feeling that the transition has already begun, we just haven't noticed it yet. The iPad Pro with keyboard is an ARM computer, Apple even market it as such. I believe the fabled ARM Mac will not be a Mac, but a 2 in 1 iPad Pro with a beefed up version of iPad OS. Apple have been improving iPad OS to the point where it's a strong desktop replacement for a decent section of the market.

Why port Mac OS to a new architecture when you already have a perfectly good OS on that architecture?

It’s already ported. MacOS is a perfectly good OS that runs on ARM.

 

[jlc1978]

Too many professional software houses develop for Windows only, and we use their software in virtual machines on Macs (or with bootcamp). The move to ARM will imply to lose a lot of professional users that depend on Windows software, unless Apple manages to get them port their applications to ARM Macs, which is unlikely.

Said this, if I wanted to drop Intel, I'd choose RISC V rather than ARM. No doubt.

Many are naturally concerned with losing the ability to run Windows. For those who truly need Windows for a specific application, I suggest getting a cheap PC laptop or desktop (for gaming)

A lot depends on what MS does with ARM Windows. If it develops into a product that can run all modern Windows apps then an ARM Mac would be no different than an Intel in terms of ability to run Windows either in bootcamp like environment or a VM. Ideally Apple would make it so you could concurrently run a Bootcamp partition and MAC OS and exchange data / access files. I doubt they would od that, however.

[/QUOTEHowever, if your use is more the occasional Office 365 type, I suggest using Microsoft's cloud versions. They're actually not too bad.
[/QUOTE]

"Not to bad" translates to "missing key features" and "can't use on a plane" for me; the same with cloud storage as the primary source and not a backup. YMMV

 

[mscice]

I think we might see cheaper macbooks ?

this is the missing peace for apple.. cpu

 

[cmaier]

My biggest concern about this bootcamp. I spend a ton of time messing with emulator development on Windows, and not being able to have intel architecture will likely be a no deal for me as long as windows stays predominantly intel.

Yep. Apple doesn’t care. On the plus side, now your mac will run ios/ipados apps, which is a lot of software, and a lot of new potential customers to replace the tiny number of people who run windows on mac.
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Or this will be an opportunity for Apple to move away from the complicated iOS/iPadOS/watchOS/tvOS/macOS naming structure and make a single operating system for all their devices, named appleOS or something like that. The new appleOS would be scaleable, from the watch to the 27" iMac. The Mac portion of appleOS would retain its appearance and keep mouse support, etc., but things would be more unified. We've seen hints of this with Marizpan and iPadOS gaining new features, plus all OSes being updated at the same time. It'd be simpler and easier, IMHO.

Nope. Remember, a year ago apple went the OPPOSITE direction and created a new OS (ipados). Apple understands that if you want to discourage developers (including their own in-house!) from targeting the least common denominator, you need to treat each product separately.

 

[Piggie]

Whilst I 100% look forward to this and ANY improvements that can be made to help computers run faster.
I still wish the people who say how fast ARM runs on a Phone/Tablet could be made to understand, both those devices are running a VERY light OS and apps designed specifically for them.

If Apple put an ARM chip in a, dare I say it "Proper Computer" running a full heavyweight OS like MacOS or Windows 10, then load up full heavyweight programs to run on it. Photoshop, 3D Cad etc etc.

And the ARM chips does all this and blasts past Intel and AMD I will be shocked/stunned and very happy indeed.

I suspect however this is not possible (yet) And Apple will come up with some cheat?
Like a special OS and/or special Apps to make them able to run on some cut-down laptop.

Please tell me I'm wrong if you think I am
I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[dspdoc]

But that's what Apple has been doing. There's been little advancement in macOS for years. Project Catalyst has allowed the Mac to start running some core iOS apps and a few mainstream ones have followed such as Twitter. It all points to a convergence of some kind in time for the ARM based Macs.

macOS hasn't been a priority for many years & I don't think there's a long term future for macOS either (hence the lack of development and advancements).

I'm not one for nostalgia or looking back as that's exactly the wrong thing to do. But to continue with macOS on ARM based hardware doesn't add up. To me, it seems very clear that iPadOS is a stepping stone for what is to come. We may just find out what that is at WWDC.

I hope you are wrong and that Tim and Craig keep their word about “loving the Mac” and not cannibalizing it.

 

[diddl14]

Looking forward learning how Apple nails x86 comparability. Pretty sure they will do it with sw+hw, maybe even with only very small performance penalty, if any..

For the nerds: https://threatvector.cylance.com/en_us/home/teardown-windows-10-on-arm-x86-emulation.html

 

[Stevethekingjobs]

Question here. Does this mean that Third party apps not available on the app store are going to disappear? How likely is that? or is it just a matter of adapting to the new architecture?

 

[cmaier]

Whilst I 100% look forward to this and ANY improvements that can be made to help computers run faster.
I still wish the people who say how fast ARM runs on a Phone/Tablet could be made to understand, both those devices are running a VERY light OS and apps designed specifically for them.

If Apple put an ARM chip in a, dare I say it "Proper Computer" running a full heavyweight OS like MacOS or Windows 10, then load up full heavyweight programs to run on it. Photoshop, 3D Cad etc etc.

And the ARM chips does all this and blasts past Intel and AMD I will be shocked/stunned and very happy indeed.

I suspect however this is not possible (yet) And Apple will come up with some cheat?
Like a special OS and/or special Apps to make them able to run on some cut-down laptop.

Please tell me I'm wrong if you think I am
I would love to be proven wrong.

You are wrong. I designed parts of AMD K6-3, K6-3, Athlon 64, Opteron, the integer instruction set for x86-64, UltraSparc V, Exponential PowerPC x704, etc. ARM can be just as fast as x86-64 or up to 15-20% faster on the same process node if the designers are good. And Apple has very good designers.
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Question here. Does this mean that Third party apps not available on the app store are going to disappear? How likely is that? or is it just a matter of adapting to the new architecture?

If the developers re-compile (which in many cases is trivial) then they will remain available.

The big question is if the ARM macs will have some translation layer to run x86-64 apps in the mean time.

 

[KPOM]

So stupid. lot of folks will miss the capability to dual boot

However I assume Apple has the stats and perhaps vast majority people run Mac applications and virtualization is a minor number of users?

I think another Apple rumor site stated that repair statistics show that only 2% of Macs are set up to dual boot. That number increases if you count virtualization.

 

[johnnyzg]

TB will go the way of Firewire. The vast majority don't use or care about it and the few that do will be disappointed but move to USB. I don't think I've EVER used my Thunderbolt port on Macs or PCs.

Apple also did a lot of the development of TB so they do have some IP and leverage with Intel.

I'd still like Apple to use the much superior AMD processors instead of a switch to ARM.

If I understand correctly, USB4 is based on TB3 and is compatible with TB3 so I guess new Macs will use USB4 and all TB3 devices will work. Actually I guess this is the main reason they were waiting for ARM release. USB4 specification got released in August 2019.

 

[Janichsan]

Wow its finally happening. Exciting times.

Yeah. I can hardly wait. Once more two, three years of incompatible, badly adapted software, and another massive culling of applications that won't be ported at all.

Truly exciting.

 

[jerryk]

Good. Time for Apple to free themselves from Intel's inability to meet their timelines and processing needs.

 

[zorinlynx]

Why are people so excited about this? Another freaking CPU transition, another few years of dealing with stuff not working well, having to find new software, and so on.

Not to mention Macs won't be compatible with industry standard PCs anymore; say goodbye to virtualization and Boot Camp.

I'll never understand why some of us blindly agree with everything Apple does no matter what the cost. They're not always right and in this case I feel they are horribly wrong.

 

[Azrael9]

Wow its finally happening. Exciting times.

We're coming home.

Hydrogen Bomb about to be dropped on Intel.

Azrael.

 

[insomniac86]

Or this will be an opportunity for Apple to move away from the complicated iOS/iPadOS/watchOS/tvOS/macOS naming structure and make a single operating system for all their devices, named appleOS or something like that. The new appleOS would be scaleable, from the watch to the 27" iMac. The Mac portion of appleOS would retain its appearance and keep mouse support, etc., but things would be more unified. We've seen hints of this with Marizpan and iPadOS gaining new features, plus all OSes being updated at the same time. It'd be simpler and easier, IMHO.

Same OS from the Watch to a Mac Pro. Wishful thinking...
Unless you define your "OS" as the Kernel... l So much stuff would be stripped from the OS Stack that it can't technically be identified as the same OS from a Watch to a Pro rig.

 

[Apples Apples Everywhere]

This news really cuts short the lifespan of the new Mac Pro. Nobody will want those in a few years.

 

[Rigby]

What does this message now mean for an upcoming new purchase? That i would be an idiot to buy an "Intel" Macbook now?

If this really happens, I'll probably buy a few of the last Intel Macs so I can keep enjoying MacOS for a few more years before moving away from Apple computers. I need an x86 machine for my work (I rely heavily on VMs). Sad times if true.

 

[ipponrg]

I think we might see cheaper macbooks ?

this is the missing peace for apple.. cpu

Just like the touchbar and recent 2x RAM pricing, I would expect Apple to pass the pricing on to its customers. Apple and cheap don't really go together

 

[yurc]

Oh my, this is nightmare for hackintosher.

 

[Azrael9]

Rewind to this, Steve's words still preach a decade on

It was true then.

Ironically.

It's true now.

Azrael.