Apple Explains Privacy Policy Behind 'Hey Siri' and Live Photos

[one more]

I don't see the point of Live Photos in the first place. For me, each Live Photo equals to a 3 sec video clip. So we could just take this short video and be done with it.

With Live Photos enabled and an increase in megapixels, the 16 GB storage devices will be running out of space much quicker and Apple seems to have a problem with a number 32 when it comes to a storage capacity. To somewhat balance it, they could have offered at least 10 GB of iCloud storage for free now.

 

[cariacou]

Analog televisions and analog landline telephones were always listening, long before laser microphones.

how? I'm curious to hear

 

[CarpalMac]

Just take a look at a company's business model and you'll know whether to worry or not. (Cough) Google.

Got Facebook accounts by any chance? Clearly for you and the billion+ FB users, keeping your data private is a huge worry....

 

[5105973]

My iPhone is in a wallet case inside my purse a lot of the time. Mostly Siri/NSA or whatever spies are out there are going to hear only "Dagnabbit, where are my damned keys?"

As for pictures, it's a lot of "Hold still and smile and stop crossing your eyes or they'll stick that way!" I actually feel sorry for anyone who invades my privacy. It's like hours of nothing and then short bursts of a sitcom and some Addams Family moments thrown in. And a lot of looking for lost socks.

 

[bobob]

I don't see the point of Live Photos in the first place.

Fortunately for you, this feature can be turned off.

For me, each Live Photo equals to a 3 sec video clip.

Each Live Photo takes up about 2x space of normal images - - the feature's compression protocol has been custom designed to save space compared to full video.

With Live Photos enabled and an increase in megapixels, the 16 GB storage devices will be running out of space much quicker

If you define "much quicker" as 2x as fast and if you keep the feature turned on full-time and take the same number of photos.

 

[Taipan]

Apart from the live photos feature being silly as a whole (seems very samsungy to me), why didn't they restrict it to the time after pressing the release? Privacy problem solved.

 

[bobob]

Apart from the live photos feature being silly as a whole (seems very samsungy to me), why didn't they restrict it to the time after pressing the release? Privacy problem solved.

I agree that it is a gimmicky feature, but I think the part of the photo before you say "cheese" and your subjects compose themselves, would be the most interesting part.

 

[Taipan]

If you define "much quicker" as 2x as fast and if you keep the feature turned on full-time and take the same number of photos.

You wouldn't call twice as fast much quicker?

 

[bobob]

You wouldn't call twice as fast much quicker?

It seems quite reasonable for a 12MP image fully captured for 3 seconds rather than for one instant - - I would have thought the memory usage would have been much higher.

 

[Sill]

how? I'm curious to hear

Back in the days when twisted pair copper wire ruled telecommunications, it was possible to bug a room by modifying phones to listen even when the phone was still "on the hook". You can read about this by searching for "Infinity XMTR" or "Infinity Transmitter". It was a real thing, everyone from spooks to LEOs to the mob used them. It could be done cheaply and simply, and all it required was physical access to the phone to install the parts. If I remember right, it was a combination Black Box (phreaker term for a piece that took the phone off the hook without significantly dropping the line voltage - otherwise after an extended period of use the bug would cause the old "off hook" warning klaxon that oldsters here should recall) and a physical switch that bypassed the the disconnect lever in the handset base.

The main thing here is that an Infinity install required physical access to the phone. If you suspected the phone, you would simply buy a new one wherever you chose, and potential spies would need to access it all over again. Back in the days when it was illegal to get a phone anywhere but the phone company, Infinity work was done by spooks at the telecoms so changing to a new phone would just get you another bugged phone. After the FTC or FCC or whomever changed the rules and allowed anyone to buy any phone anywhere from any manufacturer, Infinity work was a lot harder.

Later on, as phones became more logic-controlled, it may have been possible to take them off the hook remotely without any mods. Maybe the mods were ordered to be built in by the feds. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past them. Just as Nixon would threaten to pull the broadcast licenses of news agencies that pushed him, so I wouldn't put it past the feds to threaten manufacturers who refused to put back doors in their gear. Just like I hear is going on in Silicon Valley now.

 

[Lictor]

Good grief! No, that's not what it means. "Will not save" means it will not save, not that it really did save it and then continuously deletes it.

It's not really deleting it, it's just writing over it with new information. It looks like "live photo" (which has been available on Nikon P&S cameras for a while now) is just using a buffer in RAM. Instead of just loading each frame, displaying it and discarding it, it writes from them a memory buffer that lasts for 1,5s.
So, it's not really save or deleted, it just lives for 1,5s in RAM then is overwritten by fresher images. There is really no concerne for privacy then. And if there is, there should be for regular photos to anyway, since they work the same with a single frame buffer instead...

 

[You are the One]

Got Facebook accounts by any chance? Clearly for you and the billion+ FB users, keeping your data private is a huge worry....

FB is designed for collecting personal information, so no way. Same with Google, don't want to have anything to do with them.

 

[Abazigal]

I don't see the point of Live Photos in the first place. For me, each Live Photo equals to a 3 sec video clip. So we could just take this short video and be done with it.

With Live Photos enabled and an increase in megapixels, the 16 GB storage devices will be running out of space much quicker and Apple seems to have a problem with a number 32 when it comes to a storage capacity. To somewhat balance it, they could have offered at least 10 GB of iCloud storage for free now.

The issue is that nobody goes around taking 3-second videos of everything around them, but everyone will take photos. So it's all in the implementation. People don't need to do anything extra. Every photo they take is a live photo automatically in addition to being a normal photo.

I can see this being a very "emotional" feature for the average consumer. Imagine a new parent holding down on a photo of their newborn child and watching it move. Now imagine showing it to all your friends and relatives. Imagine watching it move when you hold down on your wallpaper.

Now extend this to every other reason why you might take a photo. Your girlfriend or wife smiling at you. Your dog wagging its tail. I see this being huge, not just because of the technology behind it, but because of the emotional appeal it holds for the user. If it is one thing Apple understands better than any other company, it is who their market is and what appeals to them.

 

[iSee]

Good grief... actually think about what's being said vs just trusting a wooden reading of the text. So, if it weren't saving that 1.5 seconds, how would it include with the photo? Of course it's being saved, and then hopefully, deleted.

No, data from the camera is recorded into a RAM buffer. That is volatile storage and no deletion is needed to avoid saving it. Only once the user takes a picture is the buffer content saved to persistent storage.

It's a key difference. If the video was actually saved and then had to be actively deleted, the process could be interrupted, leaving behind saved video that the user did not intend to be saved.

I believe it means it is continuously buffered in RAM, and only gets saved to the flash memory if the user invokes the "shutter" to take a photo. Perhaps that area of RAM gets continuously overwritten by new buffered images that are three seconds newer. But in order to save a picture starting a second and a half before you even told it you wanted to take a picture, the data for that lead-in has to be saved somewhere.

Right. Too bad you weren't the one writing the MR article. I objected because "saved" and "deleted" are the wrong words to use when referring to writing to RAM.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

This means that the camera is always recording the last 1.5 seconds of footage it sees, though it will continuously delete that footage unless it's "saved" when a user takes a photo. The 1.5 seconds after a photo is taken is also saved when a user takes a photo.

I would imagine that the preceding 1.5 seconds isn't saved in any way to disk, but is simply kept in memory. If they're recording at HD quality, 1.5 seconds is about 1.3 Mb - that'll fit into RAM very easily. Even if it's 4K video, it's under 6 Mb of video.

 

[locust76]

Not believing one word of it. Because I'm one of the many smarts, I know it's BS

The "Hey Siri" function is available on current generation iPhones (when plugged in) so I decided to test it by connecting my phone to a wi-fi network without internet access. Sure enough, the phrase "Hey Siri" triggered the phone to start listening, at which point it couldn't fulfill my request because there was no internet. Had it not worked, I would have then become suspicious.

But no, contrary to popular belief, it is possible to process simple audio queues on a high-powered mobile device.

 

[SteveW928]

and Apple seems to have a problem with a number 32 when it comes to a storage capacity.

It's called up-sell. To the 'new' Apple, it's not a problem but a strategy. (Note the 32 GB in the $160 Apple TV. It isn't a matter of cost, it's designed to get you to buy the 64 GB version. Which would be fine if all customers were aware of it and Apple doesn't end up with a bunch of 16GB iPhone owners for which it's their last Apple purchase. Doh!)

 

[SteveW928]

My iPhone is in a wallet case inside my purse a lot of the time. Mostly Siri/NSA or whatever spies are out there are going to hear only "Dagnabbit, where are my damned keys?"

As for pictures, it's a lot of "Hold still and smile and stop crossing your eyes or they'll stick that way!" I actually feel sorry for anyone who invades my privacy. It's like hours of nothing and then short bursts of a sitcom and some Addams Family moments thrown in. And a lot of looking for lost socks.

Yea, for the most part it isn't a problem for the average person.... right now. But, with Western governments upping the propaganda, talking away freedom of speech, kangaroo courts, and loss of rationality around what is legal and what is not, it won't be too long before a sufficient percentage of us will be worrying about such things.

And, then if you've listened to some of the recent comments by people like Comey, they recognize the need to have access to everything everyone does and are already putting the technologies and business/political deals in place to accomplish that.

 

[SteveW928]

Back in the days when it was illegal to get a phone anywhere but the phone company, Infinity work was done by spooks at the telecoms so changing to a new phone would just get you another bugged phone.

Yep, and now it's being done via deals with these companies where the government pays for access, and the company is indemnified against any recourse. Services are being designed such that customer data is encrypted, except at some point where some processing/analysis needs to be done by the provider (thus need for un-encryption at that point)... and that's where they get access. And, the customer has actually given such permission.

 

[5105973]

Yea, for the most part it isn't a problem for the average person.... right now. But, with Western governments upping the propaganda, talking away freedom of speech, kangaroo courts, and loss of rationality around what is legal and what is not, it won't be too long before a sufficient percentage of us will be worrying about such things.

And, then if you've listened to some of the recent comments by people like Comey, they recognize the need to have access to everything everyone does and are already putting the technologies and business/political deals in place to accomplish that.

I know. It's just that for right now with this particular feature I don't feel threatened. Though I admit to being creeped out to find out all this time my camera has been taking pictures without my knowing about it. That's a lot of views up my nose without my consent if the FT camera does the same. Otherwise it's a lot of views of the top cover of my wallet case.

I really don't talk about politics much. And when I do it's on FB anyway.

Anyway I'm not dismissing what you're saying. I AM concerned. I AM angry. I'll do what I can with my votes. It's all enough to make our nation's founders spin in their graves. They are probably wondering why we don't revolt but they couldn't have envisioned the tech that could be brought to bear against the citizenry. Nor how massive and pervasive our domestic monitoring could get. Or how corrupt and banal journalism would become.

 

[Mums]

I can't believe everyone here trusts that Apple is not letting the NSA access their data. Just because Cook says something, doesn't make it true. Jobs may have been able to keep the "government" at bay, but ballless Cook can't even keep Eddie Cue from ruining Apple's reputation by squandering three billion dollars acquiring a low-quality headphone company with its hatemongering rapper token mascot as some sort of iTunes saviour; and letting Jony Ive express his infinitely-expanding ego on ruining IOS; and creating the most pointless and off-track product in Apple's history - Apple Watch.

What makes you think Tim Cook has the balls to stand up to the rogue and corrupt puppet-regime occupying the White House with its race-baiting marionette "obama"? Answer: he may think he's standing up to something, but they're stealing our data right out from under his nose.

 

[SteveW928]

I know. It's just that for right now with this particular feature I don't feel threatened. Though I admit to being creeped out to find out all this time my camera has been taking pictures without my knowing about it. That's a lot of views up my nose without my consent if the FT camera does the same. Otherwise it's a lot of views of the top cover of my wallet case.

I really don't talk about politics much. And when I do it's on FB anyway.

Anyway I'm not dismissing what you're saying. I AM concerned. I AM angry. I'll do what I can with my votes. It's all enough to make our nation's founders spin in their graves. They are probably wondering why we don't revolt but they couldn't have envisioned the tech that could be brought to bear against the citizenry. Nor how massive and pervasive our domestic monitoring could get. Or how corrupt and banal journalism would become.

Agreed. Live photos, IMO, isn't a big deal. Hey Siri probably is. It depends on whether we think we can trust what Apple is actually saying vs what is really going on behind the scenes. I personally (as much as I love Apple) don't.

And, I think people are going to be in for a rude awakening one of these years... it's just a matter of time now. The mechanisms have been in place for quite some time now. And, for the typical citizen, it's kind of like the frog in boiling water. But, it's getting SO bad in the last year or two, that I think even the average person is starting to realize something is afoot.

There is a great podcast called Congressional Dish where you can keep up with what is actually going on in the US government. While I don't always agree with her particular take on whether the things are good/bad... the information is crucial to understand what is REALLY going on (and no, it's not what we're hearing in the media!). And yes, it should make any person who understands USA history furious!

Another discovery I've been following for a bit, is Curry & Dvorak's "No Agenda Show" podcast. While it's a bit crude at times... and you'll have to evaluate the 'conspiracy theory' aspects and where they run with the data they uncover... the data they uncover is priceless to understand what's going on in the world.... and how HORRIBLE (and propaganda) ALL of the mainstream media coverage is. Even if you've started to get that impression (as I had), you'll be shocked when you actually have the evidence of how bad it is (I was/am).

 

[Keirasplace]

To have a device constantly listening the environment is creepy.
Apple, Google, Amazon and many others are implementing that.

We never know if the company is working with government to "protect us" or if the device was hacked. That's my first impression.

It's listening for key words, not everything. That would require a hell of lot more processing. It may happen eventually but you'Re jumping the gun on this.

 

[Keirasplace]

This.

"this" you have no clue what it actually does... Or something else... Seriously, inform yourself then post the usual "concern post", don't do it before you have all the information.

Right now, it listens for key words (not even words, more a sound signature), nothing else. It's not sending it back, or doing semantic analysis on the fly. That would crush your battery quick and you'd know about it.

 

[Tech198]

ever used a search engine ? Google uses keywords too..... yet we use it.... Yahoo or any search does the same thing...

Either u like this, or u hate it.

I think we believe privacy polices, and say "well it must do this cause they said it" No one ever thinks "are they secretly recording everything, and not telling us" ?

Doesn't take long does it.