Apple Exploring MultiTouch Interface Gestures

[sartinsauce]

i dont see how apple could make gains on a touch screen display since a lot of apple users are some sort of designers, the work they do needs precision touch which is hard to do with a fingertip.

Uhh, I'm not so sure about that. I'm much more accurate with my Wacom tablet. When I got it I thought it was really tough to use. I think fingers with Gestures would be dope.

I still think in another decade or two Generation X and The Millennial Generation will still be pushing forward and embracing new technology. It seems that The Baby Boomers and The Builder generation for the most part aren't as willilng to accept that change. Technology has become a staple in our lives (Gen X & Mill.) much more so than that of the the prior generations. It's my belief that the Millennial Generation and Generation X will continue to ride the wave of technology till the end embracing all that comes with it.

Perhaps it's just me; a 31 year old who loves technology and change, but I think my generation is very much on board with moving forward concerning technology.

These are good points. I think I was taking the previous statement to be youthful arrogance, but you're right. We are a generation that is accustomed to planned obsolescence, technological breakthrough, ever changing standards, inflation and lots of other cultural phenomenon that make us comfortable with change.

 

[zombitronic]

If there has to be a chart explaining what all the gestures do then by definition it's not very intuitive.

I was under the impression that the charts are from the patent. How would you suggest documenting the gestures?

 

[PDE]

Right on. Certainly multi-touch is very exciting... for those capable of doing it. Hopefully Apple won't forget that there are Mac people with RSI, etc who need to use ergonomic keyboards and the like.

I started using a fingerworks gesture pad a few years ago because of tendinitis and all I can say is that it's wonderful! I dread the day it breaks given that fingerworks is no longer around. Hopefully, by then, Apple will have come out with something even better to replace it.

Once you learn the gestures (and they're easy and intuitive to learn), it becomes second nature very quickly and your hands just slide and glide over the pad effortlessly. It's amazing stuff! In fact, it always annoys me that my MBP trackpad can't do anything.

 

[tgildred]

I like : "Fingers: they're what's for dinner"

"Got Fingers?"

or "Let your fingers do the walking" Oh wait. Already done.

 

[verniesgarden]

"Got Fingers?"

or "Let your fingers do the walking" Oh wait. Already done.

"you finger have never had so much fun!"

 

[javaguy]

Multitouch Pad prediction

My bet is that Apple would go for a multitouch pad as a mouse replacement rather than a multitouch screen, with a form factor the size of an iPhone. No screen on the pad itself, but multiple cursors on the display to give feedback on finger positions.

My experience with touch screens is that

• vertical surfaces are too tiring work for prolonged use
• fingers will inevitably smudge up the screen
• the expense of covering an entire screen with a sensor grid isn't worth it

so I'm not expecting a multitouch screen.

Given that the iGesture touchpad listed for about $130. 2 years ago, I'd guess that today's costs (+ economy of scale) are low enough to include it in new desktop models. At issue - does it actually work well enough to roll out as a product and does Apple need to wait until Leopard to introduce support for such a device or can they shoehorn the necessary support into 10.4.11?

 

[benspratling]

In regards to learning a new input language; I find it exciting and refreshing, from both a physical and mental state. If it physically feels more natural than its predecessor you feel a deeper involvement with the device. The Nintendo Wii and the iPhone demonstrate this experience. I don't feel the hesitation, as some do, to adopt a new way of interacting with our surroundings, mainly technology. Others, however, latch on to a process, grow comfortable and are weary of change.

I'm in my mid 20s. Do you guys feel that this is a generational preference or a personal one?

At 25, I'm fine wth their being a new input language, although sometimes I think that since I grew up as Gui's did (my family got a Mac Plus when I was in kindergarden) that I've had twenty years to gradually learn all the ins and outs while my granddad doesn't understand the difference between hardware and software. I don't like perpetuating bad methods of input (i.e. the qwerty keyboard) just because everyone's used to them.

I remember taking my AP exams in highschool with a TI-89 and folks were like "well as long as it doesn't have a qwerty-keyboard, it'll be hard to use and we won't consider it a computer and you can use it on the exam" and my response was "suckers!" cause it had the same processor that ran my family's first PowerPC back in sixth grade! I love the a-b-c-d-e-f keyboards cause if you don't know where the key is, you can find it! lol

But I think all generations get used to perpetual problems, loosing their drive to make things the way they should be.

And as for the guy that said Steve will get rid of the mouse before he adds a second button, rock on!

I'll describe my ideal interface, and I don't know how this could work: In Star Trek: Voyager, the security guy (Tuvok) gets blinded, so you figure he can't use the touch-screen computers they all have, right? Wrong, they have some kind of "tactile" interface he can feel around. Even us "sighted folks" use our finger senses to a degree sometimes we don't notice to figure out what we're touching. Wouldn't it be nice if there were some way of reconfiguring the surface of the touch screen so that we really could feel what we were touching, like those toys with all the rods that move back and forth that you can put your hand in?

Edit: Dude! Sombody has already started working on this!
http://home01.wxs.nl/~wende104/dpdquicktime.html

 

[PDE]

Given that the iGesture touchpad listed for about $130. 2 years ago, I'd guess that today's costs (+ economy of scale) are low enough to include it in new desktop models. At issue - does it actually work well enough to roll out as a product and does Apple need to wait until Leopard to introduce support for such a device or can they shoehorn the necessary support into 10.4.11?

Well, the igesture pad works perfectly with 10.4 now so I can't imagine that it would be difficult to make the new input device work. I think it doesn't suit everybody because it does require some learning. However, it can always be used as an ordinary trackpad too so nobody HAS TO learn all the gestures. The gestures can be optional for those who do. I've found that not only does the igesture pad work perfectly, but it's really fun to use too. It's like the iphone gestures, but many times more.

 

[wiseone]

Duh? Roddenberry had this back in the 60's

Gene Roddenberry and others had this type of interface back in the original Star Trek. Multibutton interface where the button action would change depending on the mode the unit was in. Then this migrated into a full touch interface in The Next Generation and beyond.

 

[notjustjay]

My toes are second class citizents?

Not I, but there are people missing the ability to use their hands or that do not have hands, they use instead their feet.

Hope there is a solution for them.

Actually, this would be even better than a mouse, because all you need to do is design a large touchpad that you step on with one or both feet, and you could dance your way to computing bliss!

... and for those multi-touch gestures requiring more than two touches? Bring a friend...

 

[Fabio_gsilva]

Ultracool!!!

Man, i think this is huge!!!

You know, it seemed to me that this would create and interface that replace the keyboard and mouse altogether. If you have some plain surface with litle marks showing you where to tip each letter or symbol, and could capture your gestures as well, it would be amazing!!!

Or some projected keyboard over that smae surface... I think this is ultra cool, and very intuitive to use... seems like natural movements... of course it will have some learning curve, but I'm willing to try it as hard as I can!!!

Imagine the MacBook Pro without the keyboard, only one great clean surface... it would be thinner than know, I guess... and beautiful!

 

[benspratling]

Gene Roddenberry and others had this type of interface back in the original Star Trek. Multibutton interface where the button action would change depending on the mode the unit was in. Then this migrated into a full touch interface in The Next Generation and beyond.

I've never heard this before, and I've read the TOS technical manual. I think at that time it was a little more "we don't want to limit ourselves by having to put labels on the buttons - we're not sure what buttons we'll need in next week's show." The "function would change" depending on what the actor decided he was going to push and when caught pushing the same button for different stuff from one week to the next, they'd say "well, uh... the function is different this wee-- I mean, uh... in this mode." Until Gates McFadden told the directors they needed real buttons with real labels so they could actually pretend to use the real thing consistently. At which point they introduced joke labels and graphics into those screens, most of which were jokes from TOS or their initials.

And it became touch screens by Star Trek 3, back to real buttons in Star Trek 6, and then actual real-life flat screens by star trek 7, but then round tv screens for the defiant bridge in Deep Space Nine, then a billion real plasma screens for Enterprise, to which they added LED-blinky thingies for the third season. Who knows, by the next star trek movie, they might have multi-touch screens!

 

[zioxide]

This looks like a pain in the ass, like a step backwards from now. To paste you have to put 3 fingers on and move them in? **** that. I'll just hit command+v.

 

[BKF]

I still think in another decade or two Generation X and The Millennial Generation will still be pushing forward and embracing new technology. It seems that The Baby Boomers and The Builder generation for the most part aren't as willilng to accept that change. Technology has become a staple in our lives (Gen X & Mill.) much more so than that of the the prior generations. It's my belief that the Millennial Generation and Generation X will continue to ride the wave of technology till the end embracing all that comes with it.

Perhaps it's just me; a 31 year old who loves technology and change, but I think my generation is very much on board with moving forward concerning technology.

Interesting question and of course we won't know the answer for another twenty years or so. But I imagine that most 31-year olds of most generations feel the masters of the technology and change that has come so far. It's the paradigm-breaking change from that quiet place over to the side of your usual concerns that comes when you're 50 that throws you, though, I think.

 

[Clive At Five]

Its about time we use all ten fingers when we use a computer.

I have a 5-button mouse but it doesn't drastically increase productivity. I am therefore inclined to think it's more about the interface than the input device.

So that is how cut, copy, paste and select will work on iphone v1.1...

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried a three-finger grab on their iPhone at present?

I would think that if it's not on the iPhone now, it won't be on there any time soon (v2 at the earliest). This seems obviously to be a more complex UI, relying heavily on copy/paste/like commands.

*shrugs*

-Clive

 

[zombitronic]

This looks like a pain in the ass, like a step backwards from now. To paste you have to put 3 fingers on and move them in? **** that. I'll just hit command+v.

According to the "Thumb & 1 Finger" chart, the cut gesture is to move fingers in, as if picking something up. The paste gesture is to move them out, as if putting it back down. Seems easier to me.

 

[benspratling]

According to the "Thumb & 1 Finger" chart, the cut gesture is to move fingers in, as if picking something up. The paste gesture is to move them out, as if putting it back down. Seems easier to me.

Dude, you cracked the code!

 

[LizKat]

In regards to learning a new input language; I find it exciting and refreshing, from both a physical and mental state. If it physically feels more natural than its predecessor you feel a deeper involvement with the device. The Nintendo Wii and the iPhone demonstrate this experience. I don't feel the hesitation, as some do, to adopt a new way of interacting with our surroundings, mainly technology. Others, however, latch on to a process, grow comfortable and are weary of change.

I'm in my mid 20s. Do you guys feel that this is a generational preference or a personal one?

Personal. Heavily influenced by experience of the hands-on sort, especially while young, and to some extent by education. Age itself doesn't seem to figure in so much. It does gradually get harder to learn new things (languages, software development tools, the ways of kitchen gadgets) as time marches on. Short term memory needs more reinforcement with age.

It's the willingness to experiment with hardware or software that seems to be the deal breaker. Maybe it's just about curiosity, and whether you were encouraged to explore as a kid (and to get over the idea that falling down is some kind of permanent blot on your ledger).

 

[verniesgarden]

people that are mocking the mouse and keyboard forget and take for granted how efficient it really is

but i would like to see a mouse/keyboard that could be easily done with multitouch

basically its a keyboard, but also a large touch pad as well... so you can go from typing to mouse work without moving your arm

but the more i think about multitouch on anything more than a tablet i think about the absurdity of it, does anyone prefer a trackpad over a mouse?

 

[BackInTheSaddle]

what's old is new again

Gestures are an incredibly powerful method for gathering input.

My first sys admin job in the mid 80s involved a CAD system called Applicon. It utilized a pen and tablet for sketching as well as command entry. In addition to pre-defined "buttons" on the tablet, you could draw symbols to invoke commands and scripts. For example, a "z" drawn over an area of the graphics window would zoom it using the corners of the "Z" as the reference points. There was an entire vocabulary of symbols and you could combine gestures as well. It was not only very intuitive but productive as well.

Alas, no one else used this concept until Apple picked up the ball and ran with it.

 

[Ireland]

So that is how cut, copy, paste and select will work on iphone v1.1...

Rather simple for Apple I think. You bring up the magnifying-glass, move it to your starting point, add a second finger, move the magnifying-glass to the end point whereby you will notice the text is being highlighted/selected, you lift both fingers, and a pop-up button appears (like when you enter a WiFi zone or receive a text) with four options copy/cut/paste/delete - so simple

 

[Voltayre]

You know how old folks all seem to be techno-phobic fuddy duddies who don't understand anything more complicated than a TV remote? It's not that they're stupid. The world just moved faster than they could keep up.

Well, this is the begining of the end for us, my friend.

LOL, great way of looking at it!

I do think that this way of "directly" manipulating the data that you see is the way forward though - just as the original GUI concept, embraced by Apple so early on in the PC revolution, was so much better than the abstract command-line method that was standard on most other computers at the time. How long do you think it'll be before we have hybrid iMacs with multitouch displays and conventional keyboards, giving us the best of both worlds? After all, multitouch probably wouldn't give any significant advantage to word processing, but it could revolutionise photo manipulation and media editing.

 

[Ireland]

Imagine the MacBook Pro without the keyboard, only one great clean surface... it would be thinner than know, I guess... and beautiful!

If it's going to have a multi-touch keyboard, then why even bother making it anything other than a tablet. Anyway two displays would kill the battery.

 

[knelto]

One thing I'd like to see is the ability to flick through Safari on the computer like you do on the iPhone. Flicking upon the trackpad scrolls the page down smoothly. I think that'd be an awesome implementation.

 

[rcsalgado]

double drag works in iPhone

This post got me thinking about trying some more complex gestures on my iPhone. I found one that I didn't know existed.

I've had trouble scrolling inside textboxes in iPhone Safari, such as message boards, etc. If the text inside the box was longer than the visible portion, I couldn't scroll, since a one finger scroll moves the whole page.

Well, after reading this, I tried a double finger scroll inside the text box and it works!! It scrolls just the box, not the page.

I didn't think this was documented anywhere, so I thought I'd pass it along.

Anyone find any other hidden gestures yet?