Apple Expo Paris 2003 Rumor Roundup

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by neilw
Why do some folks make such a big deal over 15.4" vs. 15.2"? That's a 2.6% increase in screen area. Hardly perceptible.
An increase in resolution is a different story, but they don't have to increase size to accomplish that.

But a different size would imply a different component, so a better chance of a new resolution....

You're right though - bigger isn't necessarily better. Especially with laptops, where Apple already produce an insanely large model for those that want all that space.

 

[crees!]

Originally posted by lord_flash
But a different size would imply a different component, so a better chance of a new resolution....

I take it you meant this.. but if the physical size is larger in width then the screen resolution would have to compensate for that. Isn't 15.4" widescreen?

 

[ozlow]

Important! Please Read!

I found this on the Art & Visual Technology Site (http://www.avt.gmu.edu/Sys.htm)

It says the following...
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!

As of 9/1/2003, Apple Computer has yet to release the date they will offer the G5 laptop models.

Please visit www.apple.com for more information regarding this. As soon as it is possible, AVT and Apple will have the special pricing available.

Apple Computer and AVT have arranged for outstanding pricing on a range of systems! Please open or download the AppleAVT agreement PDF document for more details. If you do not have the Adobe Acrobat Reader, you can download it here.

AND IT GOES ON TO SAY>>>

Apple Titanium G4 Laptop Specifications:

Due to the upcoming release of the new Apple G5, the Patriot Computer Store is still offering pricing for the G4 models. This page will be updated with news about the G5 pricing as soon as it becomes available. System specifications will also be announced at that time.

Apple has not yet announced when it will release laptop models outfitted with the G5 processor and configuration. However, the G5 desktop is available for purchase at this time.

HMMMMM... G5 POWERBOOK

 

[t^3]

Something I haven't seen anyone notice is that if Apple does decide to go multibutton mice, then laptops will (presumably) also have a multibutton trackpad too...

 

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by t^3
Something I haven't seen anyone notice is that if Apple does decide to go multibutton mice, then laptops will (presumably) also have a multibutton trackpad too...

I actually didn't realise that the Apple laptops had single button trackpads (as I've never used one). This to me is silly. I don't really care that Apple has single button mice for it's desktops. You can replace that no problem. I did and I'm more than happy with the MX700. But replacing a trackpad is (as far as I know/am concerned) impossible. Yes you can buy an external mouse. But having a single button trackpad? That's just silly. For me that seems like a small reason to not buy an apple laptop. Granted I'd probably just get an external Apple Bluetooth mouse (please) but I can see where one could be in situations where using an external mouse isn't a nice option. That just seems silly to me...

*feels an impulse that vaguely feels like a reality distortion field*

Hmmmm... one button trackpads are swell!

I enjoy my Apple experience very much don't get me wrong... keep the one button mice forever for all I care... but a multi-button trackpad should be the norm...

 

[Steven1621]

ahhhhhhhhh! the anticipation! the rumors have been flying for months. hopefully something will finally come through.

 

[neilw]

I have to say that while I'm a huge advocate of multi-button mice, I have been surprised to find that I don't find the single button on my trackpad to be nearly as much of a bother as a single-button mouse. Why? Well, if you're using the trackpad, then you're hands are around the keyboard anyway, and therefore it's not a big deal to do cntrl-click. I've actually not been too fond of multi-button trackpads on some PC laptops I've tried; because your fingers don't naturally rest on the buttons, I find I constantly have to think about which one to stab at.

Lefties might have a bigger issue, as the PowerBook is currently intended for right-handed trackpadding, using the left hand for cntrl.

To summarize: single button mouse? Ridiculous anachronism. Single button trackpad? No problem.

 

[actionslacks]

Re: Important! Please Read!

Originally posted by ozlow
I found this on the Art & Visual Technology Site (http://www.avt.gmu.edu/Sys.htm)

It says the following...
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!

As of 9/1/2003, Apple Computer has yet to release the date they will offer the G5 laptop models.

Please visit www.apple.com for more information regarding this. As soon as it is possible, AVT and Apple will have the special pricing available.

Apple Computer and AVT have arranged for outstanding pricing on a range of systems! Please open or download the AppleAVT agreement PDF document for more details. If you do not have the Adobe Acrobat Reader, you can download it here.

AND IT GOES ON TO SAY>>>

Apple Titanium G4 Laptop Specifications:

Due to the upcoming release of the new Apple G5, the Patriot Computer Store is still offering pricing for the G4 models. This page will be updated with news about the G5 pricing as soon as it becomes available. System specifications will also be announced at that time.

Apple has not yet announced when it will release laptop models outfitted with the G5 processor and configuration. However, the G5 desktop is available for purchase at this time.

HMMMMM... G5 POWERBOOK

Somebody pointed this out to me as well.

i doubt that they would know anythiing, but one can hope.

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by neilw
I have to say that while I'm a huge advocate of multi-button mice, I have been surprised to find that I don't find the single button on my trackpad to be nearly as much of a bother as a single-button mouse. Why? Well, if you're using the trackpad, then you're hands are around the keyboard anyway, and therefore it's not a big deal to do cntrl-click. I've actually not been too fond of multi-button trackpads on some PC laptops I've tried; because your fingers don't naturally rest on the buttons, I find I constantly have to think about which one to stab at.

Lefties might have a bigger issue, as the PowerBook is currently intended for right-handed trackpadding, using the left hand for cntrl.

To summarize: single button mouse? Ridiculous anachronism. Single button trackpad? No problem.

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't have said it better.
The only real way to enhance productivity on your laptop is not in adding buttons on the trackpad, but in plugging a n-button mouse (where n is a number between 1 and 6, whatever you prefer) with or without scroll-wheel. Your fingers are probably now used to multiple-button on a mouse (if not, Apple mice are for you). But on a trackpad? I don't think the trackpad should be an end in itself: it's there to help you point and click when you cannot use a mouse, IMHO.

ePotato2000

 

[Apmonia]

Powerbooks are coming

I work for Best Buy, which I know sucks but hey, one must get through school somehow. Anyway, we have a new in stock date of 15' Powerbooks as 9-13-2003. There are still the old 15' Powerbooks in our system as well, with an out-of-stock date 9-9-03. Normally we will get computers before they are announced so we have them to sell, much like the new iPods, but unfortunately I could not find any specs on the new Powerbook. The Paris Expo will be good.

 

[yujini]

But if they do use the G5 in the new 15 inch powerbooks,
what happens to the 7457s?

 

[daveL]

Originally posted by yujini
But if they do use the G5 in the new 15 inch powerbooks,
what happens to the 7457s?

Who cares? Maybe Cisco will use them. I just hope you don't need too many of them.

 

[ozlow]

There's always the iBook

Originally posted by daveL
Who cares? Maybe Cisco will use them. I just hope you don't need too many of them.

I think there's a good possible that they'll go into the new iBook. The iBook team designed the 12" powerbook, so next step would be G4 iBooks.

Plus, iBooks are coming up for an update too.

-oz

 

[placebos]

Re: Powerbooks are coming

Originally posted by Apmonia
unfortunately I could not find any specs on the new Powerbook.

If you could pleeeze do some research and try to find some system specs i'm sure it would be greatly appreciated, plus it would put a damper on this disgusting amount of rumors.

Peace

James

 

[Apmonia]

James -
I will try to find out some info tomorrow on the specs.

 

[CreepDogg]

On fuel cells:

Seems to me, like some other posters said, that this is akin to having a battery pack you have to fill with, say, 8 AA batteries. Needs a costly refill every time it is used up. Even if they don't last quite as long, rechargeable li-ion batteries seem much more economical. I'd rather buy 2 of those, and keep them charged, then have a refillable fuel cell pack that lasts as long. Seems great in theory, but it would quickly grow tiresome in practice.

On trackpad buttons:

I deal with the double trackpad button on the Dell I'm subjected to by my employer, and I find it extremely annoying - I constantly hit the wrong button, and would much prefer a single button. I do prefer one-button mice in general, anyway - too many strange hand contortions with fancy multi-buttons and scroll wheels. I'm very happy with a one-button and a PowerMate for scrolling - very comfortable. To each his own, I suppose. But I do agree that multi-button trackpads are a pain. It could be worse - some of my co-workers have a newer Dell with FOUR buttons, the trackpad, AND the little eraser-pad-thingie in the keyboard. The overkill type of design you only find in a Dell.

 

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by yujini
But if they do use the G5 in the new 15 inch powerbooks,
what happens to the 7457s?

Uh... What 7457's?

I'm not expecting a G5 laptop until well into '04, but seeing the iMac with 7455's doesn't imply that Mot would have to fill too many Hefty bags with working 7457's...

 

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by CreepDogg
On fuel cells:

Seems to me, like some other posters said, that this is akin to having a battery pack you have to fill with, say, 8 AA batteries. Needs a costly refill every time it is used up. Even if they don't last quite as long, rechargeable li-ion batteries seem much more economical. I'd rather buy 2 of those, and keep them charged, then have a refillable fuel cell pack that lasts as long. Seems great in theory, but it would quickly grow tiresome in practice.

Maybe I'm not thinking of this right, but how much do you expect a shot-glass of gasoline to cost?

Gas is still cheaper than bottled water. The fuel cell will be cheaper than running your Powerbook from your car's cigarette lighter.

I don't know that we're talking the same order of magnitude, but it's worth pointing out that recharging you LiIon isn't free either, you just don't notice the expense compared to your refrigerator...

You won't notice the cost of your fuel cell compared to your car either.

 

[Ikash]

I sure hope there right its been forever since theyve updated i hipe they put the light up keybord in all the models not just the higer ones. im def gona order one the sec they release

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Uh... What 7457's?

I'm not expecting a G5 laptop until well into '04, but seeing the iMac with 7455's doesn't imply that Mot would have to fill too many Hefty bags with working 7457's...

I think the consensus (whatever that means) is that the only way for Apple to speedbump their laptops, short of putting a G5, without compromising their design and usability, is to use the 7457s. IF we get a speedbump, the 7455B is going to be way too hot for the PBs. Now is this going to happen? How should I know?

 

[CreepDogg]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Maybe I'm not thinking of this right, but how much do you expect a shot-glass of gasoline to cost?

Gas is still cheaper than bottled water. The fuel cell will be cheaper than running your Powerbook from your car's cigarette lighter.

I don't know that we're talking the same order of magnitude, but it's worth pointing out that recharging you LiIon isn't free either, you just don't notice the expense compared to your refrigerator...

You won't notice the cost of your fuel cell compared to your car either.

I would expect, at first, that fuel cell 'cartridges' would be overpriced. But they would come down pretty quickly.

But that's not entirely the point. Electrical outlets for recharging are ubiquitous. There will always be more of them than places one can get laptop gas. I'd hate to be stuck in a small hotel somewhere with a need to recharge, with nowhere to get more power.

Also - recharging a LiIon costs a fraction of a penny. (Maybe a couple of pennies at most). Let's say fuel cell cartridges end up selling for about $1 (I would expect more - even though fuel is cheap, there'd be the casing & packaging - the 'overhead'). Say the fuel cell lasts twice as long. That's roughly 50 times the cost to power one's notebook.

Unless fuel cells offer an order of magnitude more life, which we're not hearing, it doesn't seem worth it to me. If a fuel cell lasts twice as long, I'd rather have two batteries I can hot-swap, then recharge them.

You can't beat the convenience of rechargeables. IMHO, it would be better to have more focus on improving battery life and recharge times than on any 'refillable' technology.

 

[machem]

Originally posted by CreepDogg
I would expect, at first, that fuel cell 'cartridges' would be overpriced. But they would come down pretty quickly.

But that's not entirely the point. Electrical outlets for recharging are ubiquitous. There will always be more of them than places one can get laptop gas. I'd hate to be stuck in a small hotel somewhere with a need to recharge, with nowhere to get more power.

Also - recharging a LiIon costs a fraction of a penny. (Maybe a couple of pennies at most). Let's say fuel cell cartridges end up selling for about $1 (I would expect more - even though fuel is cheap, there'd be the casing & packaging - the 'overhead'). Say the fuel cell lasts twice as long. That's roughly 50 times the cost to power one's notebook.

Unless fuel cells offer an order of magnitude more life, which we're not hearing, it doesn't seem worth it to me. If a fuel cell lasts twice as long, I'd rather have two batteries I can hot-swap, then recharge them.

You can't beat the convenience of rechargeables. IMHO, it would be better to have more focus on improving battery life and recharge times than on any 'refillable' technology.

There are two big advantages to fuel cells: size/mass per unit energy, and cost. There is one big disadvantage: availability. New technology is always that way.

Fuel cells indeed offer about 10 or 20 times the capacity per size, and per size they are much lighter. Estimate the size of your battery, and pour that much water in a paper cup. Feel the difference? And methanol/ethanol is only 80% as dense as water.

Related to the size issue is the freedom to use any shape you want. A fuel cell could use any available space in the machine as its storage tank.

What the industry is exploring now is refueling stations, where you drop in a dollar, and either fill up your cartridges, or get a few filled ones. Right now, it is clearly seems like a case of cost versus convenience. Let the first adopters work out the bugs in the system, and it will look more attractive.

In ten years certainly (maybe five?), everyone will look back on heavy metal batteries and shake their heads. Right now, we can't visualize using them every day, because the infrastructure is not in place. Don't forget the waste and disposal issues associated with batteries (I can guarantee you that municipal waste carriers worry about this all day long). There is not much worse solid waste than batteries.

Five years ago, would you ever imagine your laptop replacing a desktop machine? I would never have dreamed it. It's too early now for fuel cells in laptops, though.

[Edit: typos]

 

[CreepDogg]

I understand there are distinct advantages to fuel cells, and, admittedly, a 50 hour fuel cell on a laptop sounds enticing.

However, I think that to many users, this approach also has drawbacks. I'm troubled by the 'disposable power' nature of this solution, and I think this solution will add significant expense to the provision of portable power.

The waste issue is probably about even - today's rechargeables are more damaging, but more durable. How many disposable (yes, and I think the economics of this will dictate disposable) fuel cartridges will end up in our waste system? And how much gaseous waste from imperfect fuel combustion? And put in all the 'refilling stations' you want - there will never be more refilling stations than we have for current rechargeables. It's hard to beat that convenience.

Hopefully, these issues are being addressed in ways I'm not aware of. I just think it's important to note that each approach has advantages and drawbacks. Either way, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out as users are given a choice (as they certainly will at least at first).

 

[machem]

Originally posted by CreepDogg
I understand there are distinct advantages to fuel cells, and, admittedly, a 50 hour fuel cell on a laptop sounds enticing.

However, I think that to many users, this approach also has drawbacks. I'm troubled by the 'disposable power' nature of this solution, and I think this solution will add significant expense to the provision of portable power.

The waste issue is probably about even - today's rechargeables are more damaging, but more durable. How many disposable (yes, and I think the economics of this will dictate disposable) fuel cartridges will end up in our waste system? And how much gaseous waste from imperfect fuel combustion? And put in all the 'refilling stations' you want - there will never be more refilling stations than we have for current rechargeables. It's hard to beat that convenience.

Hopefully, these issues are being addressed in ways I'm not aware of. I just think it's important to note that each approach has advantages and drawbacks. Either way, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out as users are given a choice (as they certainly will at least at first).

There are not as many places that you can buy AA batteries as there are outlets either, but people make do. If you have a battery that requires an outlet to recharge, then you must find an outlet. If you have something that runs on disposable batteries, you find a gift shop or pharmacy. You gain some in portability and uniformity versus standard outlets. And you need a cord. Once you add some liquid, you are no longer tied to the cord (which might be less convenient if you keep your laptop at your desk). On the other hand, if you are out in BFE somewhere, it is more likely you will find methanol or ethanol than an outlet. So guess who is really interested in this? And for them, money for development is not a problem.

Also, there are no gaseous waste products from "imperfect fuel combustion". It's not combustion any more than your LiMH battery is.

Anyway, I don't mean to bicker, because it ain't here yet, it ain't going to be soon, and every new technology is a trade-off.

 

[lord_flash]

Just for the record, I know there are loads of places I can buy AA cells, and my Minidic player works for hours off each one, but I still resent the regular expense.

Personally I view products that come with rechargable batteries (my digital camera, my mobile phone...) as simply being better designed.

As a consumer, I won't give up rechargeability easily, especially not for another opportunity to hand over money to Duracell. I've started to like the fact that I very rarely buy batteries.