Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Extends Deadline for Sandboxing of Mac App Store Apps to June 1
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Thanks for the info. Coming from Windows, Mission Control is a huge improvement, but I can see how Expose was better at showing every open app.
Except that's not what you said at all. You said it continues to run in the background. Implying that it is actively using resources.
I can't believe the half second it takes to click out of Launchpad on the rare occasion that you install a new app for the MAS is worth the complaint.
OK, I understand your point better... Sure, prevention is better than cure.
However, I still stand by my thoughts that sand boxing in its current form has gone too far.. sacrifices too much functionality ( and thus developer freedom ).
Software security isn't all black and white... its also shades of grey... how secure do you make it? Making something too secure brings other issues, as we are seeing. I think Apple have tipped the over the balance in this case.
Last edited:
But the developers have all the freedom they had before the MAS was introduced. They can retain all the functionality they had before the MAS. I simply don't see how this is going too far. Nothing has been taken away from developers, only more thorough guidelines have been introduced into the optional MAS.
No, Mission Control is a dumbed down version of Expose, slapped together with spaces.
There is *no way* to show all the windows of every application at once with all other application windows at the same time, like this;
Notice that the windows from Safari are shown separately while still showing all other open windows?
In Mission Control, all windows are grouped, like this:
Which is a nightmare if you multitask, especially for those of us who work in multiple documents in photoshop, illustrator, indesign and switch between the three all the time.
The solution is easy: in preferences give users the option to UNGROUP the windows. But like i said, Apple is uncomfortable with the words 'choice' and 'options' so they don't give a crap about fixing this debacle.
Furthermore, I don't use spaces OR widgets, so that grey border and thumbnails at the top are useless to me when mission control is activated.
Mission Control is a miserable failure. I hate it.
maybe but your exposee example has 7 open windows vs 12 in your mission control example, you can double tap any icon in the dock to show all the open windows for that app
Sandboxing makes sense, yes and does add a level of security for misbehaving applications or containing security flaws like buffer overflows and other such nastiness. BSD has jails, Solaris has zones, HP-UX has secure ressource partitions and there's always good chroot that can be used to hide some of the filesystem (even though that one is quite easy to break out of).
However, all these mecanisms have one thing in common : they are setup by the administrator of the system and he gets to choose whether to use them or not. It's not up to the developer nor the vendor. It's completely optional and that's how security should be.
The problem with security features is that they come at the expense of flexibility by the system. Security and flexibility is quite the tough balancing act and unfortunately, "one-size-fits-all" need not apply here. This should be entirely up to the users to choose how much flexibility they need vs how little security they are comfortable with and vice versa.
[offtopic]
Not to mention there is still another feature called Expose on Lion, which is not the Mission Control Window he showed. A lot of the posters trying to bash Mission Control just don't understand how it's more organized than the visual chaos that was "All Windows Expose". Basically, you pull up Mission control to select your Application :
Then you Expose from there, seeing only the windows of the active application, which requires much less visual scanning to find the actual window you want :
Sure, it's now 3 operations (Mission Control, Click application, Expose) rather than 1 (Expose), but the time you save on the visual scanning alone quite makes up for it, and the more applications/windows you have jammed into a space, the more time you save.
It's just so much more organized than it was. [/offtopic]
However, all these mecanisms have one thing in common : they are setup by the administrator of the system and he gets to choose whether to use them or not. It's not up to the developer nor the vendor. It's completely optional and that's how security should be.
The problem with security features is that they come at the expense of flexibility by the system. Security and flexibility is quite the tough balancing act and unfortunately, "one-size-fits-all" need not apply here. This should be entirely up to the users to choose how much flexibility they need vs how little security they are comfortable with and vice versa.
[offtopic]
Not to mention there is still another feature called Expose on Lion, which is not the Mission Control Window he showed. A lot of the posters trying to bash Mission Control just don't understand how it's more organized than the visual chaos that was "All Windows Expose". Basically, you pull up Mission control to select your Application :
Then you Expose from there, seeing only the windows of the active application, which requires much less visual scanning to find the actual window you want :
Sure, it's now 3 operations (Mission Control, Click application, Expose) rather than 1 (Expose), but the time you save on the visual scanning alone quite makes up for it, and the more applications/windows you have jammed into a space, the more time you save.
It's just so much more organized than it was. [/offtopic]
You don't. Read the off-topic part of his post again. You MC control to your desired app (or get to it in whatever other fashion pleases you) and then use App Exposé to find the specific window you want.
No, Mission Control is a dumbed down version of Expose, slapped together with spaces.
There is *no way* to show all the windows of every application at once with all other application windows at the same time, like this;
Notice that the windows from Safari are shown separately while still showing all other open windows?
In Mission Control, all windows are grouped, like this:
Which is a nightmare if you multitask, especially for those of us who work in multiple documents in photoshop, illustrator, indesign and switch between the three all the time.
The solution is easy: in preferences give users the option to UNGROUP the windows. But like i said, Apple is uncomfortable with the words 'choice' and 'options' so they don't give a crap about fixing this debacle.
Furthermore, I don't use spaces OR widgets, so that grey border and thumbnails at the top are useless to me when mission control is activated.
Mission Control is a miserable failure. I hate it.
Bork Bork Bork. One person's opinion.
I love mission control, it makes window management even easier... Of course, I usually have a apps running in different Spaces...
Also, Mission Control=Expose+Spaces+Dashboard...
Ergo, Expose is in Lion.
Edit:
Dammit, KnightWRX wrote a better post...
I don't want to.
OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard allowed me to set hot corners on my screen. I had my top right corner set as 'all app expose' which took a fraction of a second to activate.
Again (and I say this for like the 20th time) all that needs to be done is for apple to add a simple tick in system preferences to allow an ungrouped view.
Even better would be to hide that ugly grey border and thumbnail for those of us who don't use spaces. It serves no purpose for the general user as they dont take advantage of spaces, as their needs arent so great as to require a second screen.
----------
THREE NEEDLESS OPERATIONS that a lot of people don't want to deal with. I'm not the only one, but I am quite vocal about it.
Once again, an OPTION in system preferences to turn off the grouping would solve this completely and you'd never hear from me again, and you'd get to keep your 3 extra operations to do this anyway. But apple doesnt like 'choice' or 'options' so it will probably remain this way.
Then don't use Mission Control. You don't have to you know. Just use the new App Expose and CMD-TAB or the Dock to switch apps.
You don't even have to leave App Expose to do it (try it, App Expose and then hit the dock or CMD-TAB to switch apps, it'll replace the Expose'd windows with the ones from the new app without animating out of and back into Expose).
Again, more organized, per-app Expose means less visual scanning, more organization, easier to find actual windows.
----------
But again, don't knock it until you try it. 3 operations that in the end get you to your content faster than your old 1 operation. Don't resist change, try it, you might even like it.
And you can do it in 2 if the 3 bothers you. Expose first, CMD-TAB 2nd.
That's a feature I bet you didn't know about.
Another one, some applications don't just show you their windows, they also you show a list of recently open items :
But really, feel free to cling to "All Windows Expose" and the mess it creates. I rather enjoy Lion's take on the whole thing.
Then don't use Mission Control. You don't have to you know. Just use the new App Expose and CMD-TAB or the Dock to switch apps.
You don't even have to leave App Expose to do it (try it, App Expose and then hit the dock or CMD-TAB to switch apps, it'll replace the Expose'd windows with the ones from the new app without animating out of and back into Expose).
Again, more organized, per-app Expose means less visual scanning, more organization, easier to find actual windows.
----------
But again, don't knock it until you try it. 3 operations that in the end get you to your content faster than your old 1 operation. Don't resist change, try it, you might even like it.
And you can do it in 2 if the 3 bothers you. Expose first, CMD-TAB 2nd.
That's a feature I bet you didn't know about.
Another one, some applications don't just show you their windows, they also you show a list of recently open items :
View attachment 325681
But really, feel free to cling to "All Windows Expose" and the mess it creates. I rather enjoy Lion's take on the whole thing.
So basically your rational is because you or others are comfortable with Mission Control, I *have to* also be comfortable with it as well.
See, heres what I think:
Thats arrogant. And I don't care for Mission Control. I just want to use Expose the same way its been since it was first implemented. I don't care if you thought it was fine until Apple showed you Mission Control, it was never broken and I couldnt care less how great others find it.
I need expose for my work flow, and your excuses and workarounds arent going to change any of that.
Why is it so hard for so many of you to just admit it and say:
'Yeah, Apple could do better with offering *some* amount of choice/options for their users.'
If theres one thing I've noticed, its that the most hardcore of apple zealots throw away any shred of integrity and backbone just to praise Apple to any extent.
Whatever happened to 'Think Different' ?? Its more like 'Think Like Us'
Or like this:
No, our rational is that you need to try it and see if you can adapt it to it. There's tons of new features that and in the end might be better if you simply open your mind up to new possibilities instead of sticking to your one and only way of doing things.
You know, try to Think Different. It's still Expose even if it's not the Expose you know. It's not worse or better, it's different.
Your workflow is based around some UI candy ? My workflow is based on tasks to accomplish, the key bindings and mouse shortcuts I use can change all they want, in the end my tasks are still getting accomplished in the order they need to be, no amount of differences in the UI can change that.
Really, I went from DOS to Windows 3.1 to Windows 9x to Windows NT to Linux with Enlightenment to KDE 1.x, 2.x to Gnome with Metacity, to KDE 3.x back to Gnome with Compiz and into Mac OS X and in the end, my work still got done, no matter how much the UIs differed. Heck, these days I regressed back to the command line and am having a blast with GNU screen as my work UI on my work computer.
I adapted each time and learned to make the UI switch to the tasks I needed done in a way that was comfortable.
Don't lock yourself into a single way of doing things. Again, there's plenty of new features in the Lion Expose that you might even learn to like and that might make your experience better if you just give them a chance.
You think Expose is UI Candy? I hate to inform you, but it isnt. Its a way for me (and others) to quickly navigate to other open documents. Maybe you like clicking extra buttons and hitting key strokes, but for some of us, we like shortcuts. I'm having a hard time explaining this to you though, so I'll stop here.
In anyway, it seems like this problem with Mission Control should just be adapted, no questions asked. Further proving my point about having no backbone.
Remember when Apple removed list view in the dock's folders?
They introduced it here;
https://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/20/apple-adds-list-view-to-stacks-in-leopard-10-5-2/
It was removed in Snow Leopard, until it was added BACK when people demanded it.
Did anyone suffer from it? No. So why should the OPTION for old expose in Lion be any different?
When will Mac users and developers wake up and tell Apple - NO!
If you still want to be able to use a Macintosh "computer" rather than a "device" in the future:
1.) Stop using the Mac App Store, and
2.) Buy applications directly from developers whenever possible - usually it's as easy as finding their website and using a credit card.
Developers, we need to band together and create an open alternative to the Mac App Store.
It's time for Mac users to create our own future, not let Apple dictate it.
If you still want to be able to use a Macintosh "computer" rather than a "device" in the future:
1.) Stop using the Mac App Store, and
2.) Buy applications directly from developers whenever possible - usually it's as easy as finding their website and using a credit card.
Developers, we need to band together and create an open alternative to the Mac App Store.
It's time for Mac users to create our own future, not let Apple dictate it.
Agreed. How much of a (overwhelming undeserved) percentage does Apple get from each sale of an app anyway? I really doubt developers get a fair share.... much like artists get next to crap in the itunes music store.
Looks like someone needs to get busy writing an all windows Expose app for folks like wikus. They'd make a bundle!
I'd buy it, and many others would too (just go to the Mac OS X Lion forum, a lot of people are unhappy).
That actually happened when Apple removed list view from folders in the dock when Snow Leopard was released. A few individuals made a simple app and charged a couple dollars for it until Apple brought back the feature in a later version of SL.
Sorry but MC sucks compared to the utility offered via Expose and Spaces. No amount of apple "think different" voodoo mind tricks will work on me lol. I have been using MC since Lion came out and still am beyond aggravated with it, and believe me I tried to adapt.
The best expose/spaces set up was that from 10.5 imo
My biggest gripe (and I hope one of you has a solution) is that with MC on a dual monitor setup, I can NOT DRAG windows between Monitor 1 and Monitor 2.
Combine that with
- going back to SL, when I held an app icon in the dock I had app expose. This was a godsend. In Lion, it is merely a list of windows. Bring back the app expose!
- Allow me to view desktops in a spaces like (grid) manner. Not in some linear banner as it is presented now
Last edited:
A large reason why Windows has been a much larger target for viruses than Mac OSs is simply because it has been a far more popular and widely used OS. You'd better believe that as Macs become more popular, so will it as a target for malware.
(And BTW, not everyone who uses Windows struggles with viruses or has their machine crash every 15 minutes. Its practically a non-issue if you know what you're doing
).
That's what UI candy is. A way to navigate quickly for open documents is not your workflow. It's a way to accomplish your workflow. A workflow is a bunch of tasks. "Expose" is not a task your boss/client pays you do to, they want a movie edited, a presentation submitted, etc..
UI candy helps you accomplish those tasks in a way you find fast and efficient. It's not part of the actual workflow whereas if you remove the UI candy entirely, suddenly you can't get work done, that's just ridiculous.
Saying "All Windows Expose is part of my workflow" just shows how much either you don't have a workflow to begin with or that you quite misunderstand the term.
Sorry, but in my experience, they all suck and are pale comparisons of Enlightenment DR16's Virtual Desktops. But it still doesn't harm your workflow, unless your work consists of simply performing mouse gestures to animate windows on a screen rather than doing actual work in applications.
A small gripe though indeed now you have to switch the app to monitor 2 and then switch the app to the new desktop. That one is longer, no idea why you can't do it in a single step. Not something I do personally though, my apps are all set up to open in a specific desktop so when I click their dock icon, they are already in their proper place.
Click and App Expose instead of click and hold ?
A large reason why Windows has been a much larger target for viruses than Mac OSs is simply because it has been a far more popular and widely used OS. You'd better believe that as Macs become more popular, so will it as a target for malware.
(And BTW, not everyone who uses Windows struggles with viruses or has their machine crash every 15 minutes. Its practically a non-issue if you know what you're doing
People has been saying this since forever, and yet Apple keeps increasing in size. So at what size will we witness this proliferation of viruses?