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Apple Facing European Commission's Tax Ruling Without a Lobbying Presence in Brussels

"Google’s experience with the commission’s many antitrust investigations over the years may suggest a bigger Apple lobbying presence in Brussels wouldn’t have had a meaningful impact on the regulator’s decision."

Beat me to it.
 
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iLondoner said:
I have a large investment in Apple shares so I'm clearly disappointed with any news that adversely affects Apple.

However as a European I am dismayed at the way that Luxembourg, Netherlands and Ireland have cheated their fellow EU members by offering low tax regimes. These have encouraged US companies such as Apple, HP, Dell, Starbucks, eBay, Amazon, Google (and the list goes on and on) to dishonestly book their sales not in the country where they were made, but in the low-tax haven.

The UK has lost billions in lost tax over the last decade or more.

A sign in a local independent bookstore proudly states that it has paid more tax in the UK than the whole of Amazon.
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As a European I probably pay more tax over my life than most have invested in Apple shares over that period. I’m extremely disappointed by tax dodgers. Especially those that claim to "abide by the spirit of the law”. No offence tho.
It’s just that large companies that do this sicken me greatly. Especially when my council tax just seems to rise and keep going every year.
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Jsameds said:
Apple: "We'd like to come and set up in your country, can you sort out a tax break for us in exchange for guaranteed jobs and economic income?"

Ireland: "Yes, here you go, we've written this up. Don't worry it's all legal. Please sign here."

Brussels: "That's illegal and also all of the fault lies with Apple so they alone have to cough up $14,500,000,000. Ireland, you're good to leave and you face no penalty as this is all Apple's fault."

Apple: "Wat?" o_O
Ireland: "Wat?" o_O
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Fail. You can't tell me that with the army of lawyers that Apple has they didn't see this as a possibility. So when they DID see this as a possibility, (and they did), they should have carried out the due diligence necessary to avoid getting into the deal in the first place.
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captain kaos said:
Come over to the UK, we're getting out of this EU mess.
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WHAT?? The gits will just dodge our taxes instead while making full use of our facilities. At least they'll be brewing the Kool Aid freshly to sell in english pubs though eh?
 
Zarniwoop said:
Corruption works differently in Europe, and because of the openness of business and government relations, lobbying isn't really that popular - it can be bad publicity, and so in the end you don't need an army of lawyers to do it. Instead, you need to have a friends in the government directly, have a "membership card" of the ruling party and be the insider.

What comes to Apple tax deal in Ireland, there could be a person, or a political party, that is in good ties with Apple. Nothing comes for free. Money is a good oli for the machine, but that is not lobbying... it's pure corruption, hidden somewhere in the machine.
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YES - State aid rules are important :)

JUDGMENTS:


http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-863_en.htm


PENDING INVESTIGATIONS:


 
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miniyou64 said:
No and that's not the point anyway. I don't like it when entities steal my money to pay for things I didn't ask for.
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Classic. You didn't ask for security or schools or roads.
Tell you what, why don't you avoid using them all. Oh wait…………..
 
Well before we all hate Apple full throttle (seems to happen in all threads on this site at the moment) maybe we should see the coin from the other side as well? So far, we have only heard from The EU - not exactly a political wonder organisation - and Tim says the numbers and accusations are false.

Maybe I'm just naive, but I don't think he would go full thermonuclear on Margrethe Vestager, if everything she said was true ... if VW have taught us anything, it's that if you get caught with your hands in the cookie box, just plead guilty!
 
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H2SO4 said:
Fail. You can't tell me that with the army of lawyers that Apple has they didn't see this as a possibility. So when they DID see this as a possibility, (and they did), they should have carried out the due diligence necessary to avoid getting into the deal in the first place.
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How many lawyers did Apple have in their "army" in the late 1980s, which is when the deal was made?
 
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H2SO4 said:
Classic. You didn't ask for security or schools or roads.
Tell you what, why don't you avoid using them all. Oh wait…………..
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I would like to avoid using them all. The government enforced monopoly makes that difficult. People should pay for things that they use. Not have their money stolen and reappropriated by a government who thinks they know how to spend money better. They don't.
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Ironduke said:
so who pays for roads and schools and healthcare?
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Private markets.
 
miniyou64 said:
I would like to avoid using them all. The government enforced monopoly makes that difficult. People should pay for things that they use. Not have their money stolen and reappropriated by a government who thinks they know how to spend money better. They don't.
[doublepost=1474923602][/doublepost]

Private markets.
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^

I'd hate to live in your world.. if you can't afford it, you don't get educated, die prematurely etc, where absolutely everything is about profits.

Fortunately.. there's "society" where we all contribute - to schools, healthcare, infrastructure and the rest for the benefits of everyone.
 
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Stella said:
^

I'd hate to live in your world.. if you can't afford it, you don't get educated, die prematurely etc, where absolutely everything is about profits.

Fortunately.. there's "society" where we all contribute - to schools, healthcare, infrastructure and the rest for the benefits of everyone.
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You're going to hate this "society" more when everybody goes bankrupt and is poor. Believe me it's coming.

People should just pay for what they use. It's not that complicated. Amazing to me that some people expect others to pay for them.
 
miniyou64 said:
You're going to hate this "society" more when everybody goes bankrupt and is poor. Believe me it's coming.

People should just pay for what they use. It's not that complicated. Amazing to me that some people expect others to pay for them.
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People have been saying this for years. The last credit crunch originated from the States, somewhat due too liberal banking rules - easy money - thats the "free market" for you...

Society will adapt, I'd rather have a society than your "vision"..

I sincerely hope that Apple and others are forced to pay the taxes that they owe. Will prices rise? Sure - price themselves out of the market. Other companies will quite happily step in and take advantage.

I'm not sure where you live, but I'm pretty sure you had the benefit of free education at least until you were 16 ( unless your parents were rich enough and your view is "let others eat cake" )
 
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mossy said:
YES - State aid rules are important :)

JUDGMENTS:



PENDING INVESTIGATIONS:


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Those were excellent decisions and France is one of the worst rule breaker in Eu. Let's see what happens with Airbus. French system is not far from communism (some cities are run by communist) so avoiding state aid rule breaking can be very difficult. But let EU give 'em a lesson.

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miniyou64 said:
You're going to hate this "society" more when everybody goes bankrupt and is poor. Believe me it's coming.

People should just pay for what they use. It's not that complicated. Amazing to me that some people expect others to pay for them.
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USA is socialist country for the rich when the banks and building companies are bailed out. Its capitalist for the poor. Ask from a person who could't pay his mortgage.

And all the money is routed to the less than 1% who owns mostly everything and who put the money in their money bins and keep it there. Like Apple. Now that's a human right violation. But the peasants are ready to sacrifice their own and their families lives for the system, because one day they might be part of the 1%. Or win in the lottery. Latter is more probable.
 
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miniyou64 said:
I would like to avoid using them all. The government enforced monopoly makes that difficult. People should pay for things that they use. Not have their money stolen and reappropriated by a government who thinks they know how to spend money better. They don't.
[doublepost=1474923602][/doublepost]
Private markets.
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good luck with that lol every road will be tolled lol
 
Ironduke said:
lol good luck with that ahahhaah.

if it was so good it would have happened.
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By saying that if it was so good it would have happened, you're advocating my free market position. The government won't let it happen. They have the force and they do what is in THEIR best interest.
 
Jsameds said:
Apple: "We'd like to come and set up in your country, can you sort out a tax break for us in exchange for guaranteed jobs and economic income?"

Ireland: "Yes, here you go, we've written this up. Don't worry it's all legal. Please sign here."

Brussels: "That's illegal and also all of the fault lies with Apple so they alone have to cough up $14,500,000,000. Ireland, you're good to leave and you face no penalty as this is all Apple's fault."

Apple: "Wat?" o_O
Ireland: "Wat?" o_O
Click to expand...

More like:


Apple: We want to pretend all the money we make in EU countries is actually being made by our Irish subsidiary, so we won't have to pay any taxes to those countries. If we do that, will you agree to only tax us 0.002%?

Ireland: Sure, sounds good. But don't tell any other companies, this deal is just for you ;)

Brussels: Hey Ireland, you signed a treaty with other EU countries not to screw them over like this. Collect your taxes.

Apple: Waaah! :eek:
Ireland: Waah! :eek:
 
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Jsameds said:
How many lawyers did Apple have in their "army" in the late 1980s, which is when the deal was made?
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They had lawyers then, they have lawyers now and they’ll have more lawyers tomorrow. Laws and times change. That is what the legal department is for. You know, amongst other things to ensure that anything you have agreed to remains in force.
 
miniyou64 said:
By saying that if it was so good it would have happened, you're advocating my free market position. The government won't let it happen. They have the force and they do what is in THEIR best interest.
Click to expand...

you have to have a balance or you get what happened in 2008 or even worse the hunger games lol
 
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