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I'd go as far as almost saying that Apple should give a share back to the developers every year to make the iOS platform what it is today. Imagining if Instagram, WhatsApp, Netflix etc. would band together and leave the platform
competition is ager to see this companies leaving iOS XD
It wont hapenz even if apple ask 50%

Please dont forget why those apps are what they are

First came iOS, then the apps. Want to keep your busines just in android? Ok. You are free, but others would absorb your business iOS next day and then, your company would be worth half in one day, and nothing in a month, when android get same new app ios compatible also
 
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"The market" doesn't exist on the iOS system, nor does the "the market" work without referees.

Until the app market, on every single platform, is as open as the pc/mac, I consider it unacceptable. I don't trust Apple nor do I trust Google to do the right things. I should be able to install whatever I want, without any involvement from either company in any fashion.

It's my hardware.
You can if you're able to. No one will come to your home and stop you from doing it. If your able to perform said tasks, your free to do so. You just lose access to any support from either company.
 
So what’s the difference if I go on a company’s website & make a purchase
& the company doesn’t have to pay Apple their cut
But if I use the app to then go on said company’s website to make purchase the company then has to pay Apple their cut.
Even though the purchase has nothing to do with Apple
I don't believe Apple charges for any "physical" purchases via any App on the Store. They charge for IAP such as game currency or DLP. But, if you're receiving a physical good or service (Uber, Tickets, Food, Banking, toys, etc). There is no fee for the developer to pay Apple.
 
My take on it in pros/cons to the walled garden

Pros:
  • I don’t have to care about family members installing crap that I have to get rid of
  • Banking and other sensitive data is mostly secure
  • APIs and central apps of Apple (Wallet, Health, …) are well and widely supported
  • Managing subscriptions, refunds, InApp purchases is easy and reliable and secure
  • Performance and battery life are good
  • Datacollection of apps is reduced
  • Chrome browser monopoly is hindered

Cons:
  • I can only install what Apple allows
  • I can only find apps in the App store that Apple allows and that are available in my region (e.g.no emulators, no XCode for iPad, …)
  • I cannot use NFC for purposes other than allowed by Apple (currently - seems to change)
  • Apple Services distort the market because of unfair cost situation (Apples own services operate without a 30% markup)
  • Limited monetisation options (e.g. Apple disallows payed updates of an app. You need to publish a whole new version and have limited capabilities to give owners of the old app preferential pricing)
  • Open source software limited (since no GPL software is allowed in the app store)
  • Open source software cannot be free (since you need to pay the 99 $ developer fee per year)

Thats of the top of my head. I really wish we could have both options, one for people who are not knowledgeable in tech
and another - activated by a switch in the settings with HUGE warnings - that allow all the things currently forbidden.

Or at least - alternatively - an Apple owned and monetised secondary App Store with all the Apps Apple does not allow in the „official“ App Store.
 


Apple has failed to properly comply with a court order that requires non-App Store purchasing options be made available to third-party developers, Epic Games has told a judge (via Bloomberg).

iOS-App-Store-General-Feature-JoeBlue.jpg

The Supreme Court earlier this month declined to hear separate requests from both Apple and ‌Epic Games‌ in their three-year-long lawsuit against each other regarding App Store rules. As a result, Apple is able to continue to disallow third-party payment processing within apps, but it must allow developers to direct customers to a non-App Store purchasing option for digital goods.

Apple has since made changes to its U.S. App Store policies, and now allows apps to feature a single link to a developer website that leads to an in-app purchase alternative. However, Apple plans to continue to collect a 12 to 27 percent commission on content bought this way. The commission applies to transactions for digital goods and services that take place on a developers website within seven days after a user taps through an External Purchase Link to an external website.

Epic likely wishes to contest this aspect of the change in particular, as well as Apple's implementation of them. Epic Games‌ CEO Tim Sweeney on January 16 took to X (formerly Twitter) to criticize the‌ changes as soon as they were announced, and said that it would dispute Apple's "bad-faith compliance plan" in District Court.


According to Bloomberg, Epic said in a filing Tuesday that it "disputes Apple's compliance" with previously ordered changes and said it will explain the "non-compliance" in a forthcoming filing.

Meanwhile, Apple wants Epic Games to pay $73.4 million in legal fees after Apple won the antitrust case brought against it by the North Carolinian games maker. Apple bases the claim on Epic's original violation of its developer agreement, when its Fortnite game offered an in-app payment alternative on the ‌App Store‌. Epic previously accepted that it would owe damages if it lost its antitrust claims against Apple. Now that it has, Apple has issued the bill.

Article Link: Apple Failed to Comply With App Store Court Order, Epic Tells Judge
Isn't Epic being a bit hypocritical in this? Whining about Apples App Store when you can only get Epic's games using their trash launcher?
 
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Google and Spotify are Competitors to each other, so it makes sense they pay no fee.

Sure they are fundamental to business, and when businesses engage in their own self interest for short term gains it always leads to long term har to the market, the environment and citizens.

That’s why we got company towns with company scrips as payment only usable in the same business.

A business never have the consumers or anyone else’s interest at heart
Unless you're the reincarnation of Gandhi or Buddha and have divested yourself of all worldly possessions, you're selfish as well. It's life--you breathe your share of air and eat your share of food and consume your share of the wealth that comes with your gainful employment, and by all your actions have your share of a negative impact on the environment.

Why would businesses be different? It's all a question of degree and reasonability for everyone, as determined by the society we live in.
 
I'm really tired of hearing about all this BS.

Nobody cares. I'm an app developer and I don't care. Anybody that says they care is just pretending. I honestly don't care what Epic does. Epic only hurt themselves with this mindless stunt. Tim has to double down or look like a moron. There is no turning back now for him. He dug his company into a hole here and it's embarrassing to back down now. Not for an arrogant personality like Tim.

This is not a small vs giant battle. It's two large successful companies in a peeing contest. Apple always had a policy to have their cut. It was an industry wide acceptable way to do this. Epic is being greedy and wants to earn all the money and cut out Apple entirely. They want to benefit from the marketplace but contribute nothing to that marketplace.
Alll platforms have their own payments systems. Nintendo, Sony, Steam you name it. Nothing new here except a greedy Epic trying to strong-arm the market to cater to their own greedy profit plans.
 
I don't believe Apple charges for any "physical" purchases via any App on the Store. They charge for IAP such as game currency or DLP. But, if you're receiving a physical good or service (Uber, Tickets, Food, Banking, toys, etc). There is no fee for the developer to pay Apple.
They don’t as it’s completely arbitrary. What do you think would have happened if Epic had opens up the store, and instead of user purchasing digital content the user instead bought a physical code or QR code on a pice of paper that ether got:
  1. physically mailed to them
  2. Emailed to them
  3. Printed out ona piece of paper that’s then sent to the user.
But then that makes it strange again because the steam app allows you to purchase purely digital games/ dlc etc and they don’t pay anything to Apple 🧐
Unless you're the reincarnation of Gandhi or Buddha and have divested yourself of all worldly possessions, you're selfish as well. It's life--you breathe your share of air and eat your share of food and consume your share of the wealth that comes with your gainful employment, and by all your actions have your share of a negative impact on the environment.

Why would businesses be different? It's all a question of degree and reasonability for everyone, as determined by the society we live in.
Of course not, but I try to follow my principles and long term benefits. Being selfish isn’t a bad thing, it’s all about good and bad incentives. That is why I’m for regulating away bad behavior and trying to reward good incentives
A business on the other hand have much more responsibility for the simple fact they have a larger impact. And the bigger they are the bigger the responsibility should be.

And I guess that’s the social difference between USA and EU 🤷‍♂️
 
Sweeney isn’t going to win this one. He’s stubborn and won’t let it go. Maybe he should ready Moby Dick again.
 
They don’t as it’s completely arbitrary. What do you think would have happened if Epic had opens up the store, and instead of user purchasing digital content the user instead bought a physical code or QR code on a pice of paper that ether got:
  1. physically mailed to them
  2. Emailed to them
  3. Printed out ona piece of paper that’s then sent to the user.
Anything "physical" in that sense would/should pass. But, it would be cumbersome for the end user. Hence the developer is paying Apple for that simplicity (among other things). I think part of the problem with companies like EPIC is that they have moved away from charging a set price for a game. And now give games away for free. With the expectation that the end user will eventually pay MORE for DLC and or other "features" within the game over a longer period of time. Which in the AppStore would skirt them around paying Apple or Google anything and having a free ride on their systems and access to end users. And that digital transaction being within the purview of Apple/Googles systems. Isn't going to help any of the other developers that DO get to ride for free. As they don't charge for the app. Apple/Google would exist for EPIC to make money, and not share any of it. And let's face it. A DLC costs what to make? A dance move for Fortnite?. They do it once and sell it a billion times? They could make WAY more on the DLC than any game they would sell for $49.99 or whatever. Maybe another way to look at it is like a Toll on a highway. You use it you pay for it. There are "free" sections or parts of the road. But they tend to be out of the way or not as convenient to use.

I think they came to the conclusion early on that charging for something physical or a real service wouldn't make sense for the end user and or the business. And not charging for that as well, would cost Apple revenue. So, they solved that by making ApplePay.
But then that makes it strange again because the steam app allows you to purchase purely digital games/ dlc etc and they don’t pay anything to Apple 🧐
I"m assuming your referring to Steam. Which is a store that sells games. And they have their own business model. I'm sure they get a cut for games sold on the store. Maybe not as much as Apple's 30%. But they make something. Same as Best Buy (in the US) gets a cut of games sold in their stores. TV's, Stereos, mobile phones, etc.
And I guess that’s the social difference between USA and EU 🤷‍♂️
I think we all share a basic understanding that business should be more morally obligated to the greater good when and where ever possible. However, a business's purpose is to make money. They are required to follow all laws in which they operate. But, making money is the reason for being. In the US we lean more in favor of companies than maybe the EU.
 
"it kills price competition"
he means to say, he wants to make more money, he's not talking about customers.
 
Hosting and downloading from Apple server's is dirt cheap... cost pennies. Apple's API and development tools... lol. You realize most of Epic's games are written in C++ with probably ObjC/Swift wrappers. Swift is an open source cross platform language. You could write a linux game in Swift using C++ under the hood on Nvidia GPUs without Apple whatsoever. You can build that using Visual Studio Code for free!! Apple has artificially put up a barrier to milk money from developers.
Storage is dirt cheap, it would cost pennies, why is amazon charging me so much money for cloud storage ?
should we sue Amazon for charging to store our data ?
 
Why should Apple be allowed to charge Epic for transactions made outside of the Apple ecosystem? It's not like Apple allows them to just go and use a different store to sell their "goods"! Also, what are they (devs) paying the 99 bucks for? The whole thing is kind of ridiculous. Apple needs App Developers and App Developers need Apple. Both are nothing without each other.
Epic can create their own phone, OS, app store and give apps and phone for free.
 
Hosting and downloading from Apple server's is dirt cheap... cost pennies. Apple's API and development tools... lol. You realize most of Epic's games are written in C++ with probably ObjC/Swift wrappers. Swift is an open source cross platform language. You could write a linux game in Swift using C++ under the hood on Nvidia GPUs without Apple whatsoever. You can build that using Visual Studio Code for free!! Apple has artificially put up a barrier to milk money from developers.
So can i sell my games on XBOX, Nintendo, and Play Station for free ?
i don't have to pay Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo ?
 
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Serious question ?
Do game developers pay Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo for selling games on their app store ?
or is it free ?
we purchased hardware right ?
 
I would say the T&S should be applied equally for all the members. And the rules of the store should be equally applied.


unless you think a business should be allowed to discriminate against anyone and employ child labor etc then we both agree a business shouldn't be free to operate however they want to operate
not really, businesses give discount for customers who order more some times.
Business can decide what ever they want.
Child labor is different story.
charging different price to different customers is not illegal, child labor is illegal.
 
Anything "physical" in that sense would/should pass. But, it would be cumbersome for the end user. Hence the developer is paying Apple for that simplicity (among other things). I think part of the problem with companies like EPIC is that they have moved away from charging a set price for a game. And now give games away for free. With the expectation that the end user will eventually pay MORE for DLC and or other "features" within the game over a longer period of time. Which in the AppStore would skirt them around paying Apple or Google anything and having a free ride on their systems and access to end users. And that digital transaction being within the purview of Apple/Googles systems. Isn't going to help any of the other developers that DO get to ride for free. As they don't charge for the app. Apple/Google would exist for EPIC to make money, and not share any of it. And let's face it. A DLC costs what to make? A dance move for Fortnite?. They do it once and sell it a billion times? They could make WAY more on the DLC than any game they would sell for $49.99 or whatever. Maybe another way to look at it is like a Toll on a highway. You use it you pay for it. There are "free" sections or parts of the road. But they tend to be out of the way or not as convenient to use.

I think they came to the conclusion early on that charging for something physical or a real service wouldn't make sense for the end user and or the business. And not charging for that as well, would cost Apple revenue. So, they solved that by making ApplePay.

I"m assuming your referring to Steam. Which is a store that sells games. And they have their own business model. I'm sure they get a cut for games sold on the store. Maybe not as much as Apple's 30%. But they make something. Same as Best Buy (in the US) gets a cut of games sold in their stores. TV's, Stereos, mobile phones, etc.

I think we all share a basic understanding that business should be more morally obligated to the greater good when and where ever possible. However, a business's purpose is to make money. They are required to follow all laws in which they operate. But, making money is the reason for being. In the US we lean more in favor of companies than maybe the EU.
No I mean steam the store you can get in the AppStore allows you to buy steam games on my iPhone using the steam app I downloaded from the AppStore. Steam takes 30% on sales
IMG_3518.png
 
Storage is dirt cheap, it would cost pennies, why is amazon charging me so much money for cloud storage ?
should we sue Amazon for charging to store our data ?
On the contrary I heard it’s very cheap to run of Amazon servers. I know there’s games being run 24 hours a day on Amazon servers and they have a higher amount of usage. So what type of storage you using that’s creating that much more that you’re complaining about. Just wondering
 
Battle between Epic and Apple seems to never end. Apple will try to collect a percentage of the sales/amount as far as possible.
 
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