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Actually, yes. The San Bernardino court order explicitly says that the FBI has to pay Apple for its help.
[doublepost=1460775196][/doublepost]On a more general note, Apple is pushing back against the FBI's appeal of Judge Orenstein's denial.

But we need to be careful that the FBI does not get to vacate that ruling. It's a major step in the right direction - a well-reasoned critique of the FBI's position. It would be terrible if the FBI managed to get it withdrawn.
Thanks for the clarification about payment. I still feel like the government is trying to "draft" Apple into its service indefinitely. Court cases will be endless because crime is endless. Either Apple will be forced to create a permanent backdrop for the government or dedicate a full time crew to hack their own hardware and software every time the government waves a court order at them.
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So Apple is admitting that there are ways to get the data and FBI can figure it out by themselves. Apple know there is way and refuse to help law enforcement.

So it turns out iPhone is not that secure and Apple want to help criminals. It is just Apple is pretending they care about your data, it is all perfect PR stunt
I hate terrorists and drug lords and human traffickers as much as anybody else. But there's something I fear about the government even more. And as for the FBI and at least three people I know who work there in prominent positions...lets just say my faith in their ethics and judgement as an organization is clouded by my knowledge of these three people.

Two, I've known for decades and I don't have all day to list all that's wrong with their characters, such as backstabbing and a habit of skating on other people's hard work. The third was an agent who barged into my home without a warrant just to question me about a neighbor for a simple security clearance for employment. I was leaving to go out and there he was, just walked into my garage flashing his ID, backing me with my toddler up to our kitchen door. He's lucky I didn't kill him, as was my first inclination for strange men barging into my house without invitation when I have children to protect. It would be too long to go into what he said to me but he was smug about knowing very personal details about all the neighbors on my street and taunting me with that knowledge because he was frustrated I knew so little about the neighbor he came to question me about!

He was arrogant and creepy and I told him so. I told my husband about the incident and he told me of the threats and bullying he got at work at various times from FBI agents who wanted him to drop everything and step out of important meetings just so they, too, could ask questions about former employees for security clearances. They didn't have the logic or decency to simply call for an appointment like normal people.

This heavy handed bullying and intimidation from the FBI is just to ask questions for security clearances. I can only imagine what Apple management is going through. Tim Cook is my hero just for ticking them off.

And yes, the FBI should do their own work if they are capable of it. Apple is not in law enforcement. They make computers and such. They are not responsible for what criminals or grandmas do with it.
 
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Sometimes i wonder even those this is a different case, the FBI is already using a 'professor hacker' (we think).. If it is actually true, then what the big deal here....,... If can get it, why is their a court case for this one, apart from just making headlines?

Or isn't the DOJ that smart ?

There rally needs to be an order as "whats been done" and "whats not been done" regardless of which iPhone it is from iOS8.

Even better when it comes to the simple act Apple cannot use a "our phone is encrypted" because of older OS version, the FBI can squeeze Apple because they know they can win.

I can't wait till all future iphones have hardware-encryption and not software-encryption like in iOS version today...

It will be allot simpler "oh u have an iPhone 4" ok u can unlock it.. vs today "ok, which version of iOS is it running?"
 
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Man, this dance between Apple and the DOJ/FBI is going to be the gift that keeps giving for interesting legal news. Love it. Go Apple!
 
Man, this dance between Apple and the DOJ/FBI is going to be the gift that keeps giving for interesting legal news. Love it. Go Apple!
I wish it would end and in Apple's favor so that they can cease allocating resources and time to this crap and get on with their business.

It's harassment by the government to make Apple do their work for them.

What would happen if a company invents a safe that can't be broken into short of a significant explosion and has a lock protected by a heavily encrypted code. Is the company then going to be beholden to the government to break every single one of its safes owned by a criminal? If it's a small company that could be the end of their business unless they create a hackable safe...and then there goes their business for that reason.

If companies are going to start being held accountable to law enforcement for everything they make that's used by a criminal and made to alter or explain their product to support law enforcement for every court case...sheesh.

I am not against the law enforcement getting their perps. There are other ways. There is a young woman for example, who created some sort of spyware that catches pedophiles. Law enforcement has had great success using her company's product. I'll have to try and find her again.
 
Now the war has died down the FBI can go at it again with the public now bored of the matter. It's like they consulted a PR firm to avoid another 5hitstorm of hate, very well timed indeed. I can't see how this will ever pass though. Especially now even microsoft is suing the government for gag orders and overreach of powers. It seems like threats are being made to these huge companies by the government to force these issues, i'm sure revelations will come out of all this soon.

I can't think of any solution to the issue of encryption that wouldn't result in an insecure system on an OS. If the software or OS can retrieve info on a phone it can be applied to any phone. There is noway to lock that hackedOS down to just that phone that couldn't then be altered to make it unlock any phone. I guess some amazing engineer could solve it.

Maybe the solution is a kind of blockchain for iOS like bitcoin that could let a phone change hands, but it all seems too easy to hack. Bitcoin has shown that it's possible though.
 
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Be glad you've got our government and not one of the others.
One of the others as in what? One that is rich because they abuse their power to print money and therefore have the means to create the most dangerous surveillance state in world history? Oh wait thats the US
 
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Once it has become convenient enough, they will be unlocking phones for petty crimes. Better scoop up that poop your dog left in the park. They'll be looking at your pet photos to determine if you are a serial poop dropper, err...I mean, part of an international organization of park terrorists.
 
Yep. Just like its always done. Point to the boogeyman du jour, Nazis, Communists, Satanists, Terrorists, get your unconstitutional extraordinary powers granted for worst-case scenarios in fighting them, then immediately turn around, point at the drug law charade and apply those powers to the general public, abusing them as desired.

Nothing changes.
 
Actually, yes. The San Bernardino court order explicitly says that the FBI has to pay Apple for its help.
[doublepost=1460775196][/doublepost]On a more general note, Apple is pushing back against the FBI's appeal of Judge Orenstein's denial.

But we need to be careful that the FBI does not get to vacate that ruling. It's a major step in the right direction - a well-reasoned critique of the FBI's position. It would be terrible if the FBI managed to get it withdrawn.

They (DOJ) cannot vacate the ruling, just there appeal. If they (DOJ) vacate, the original ruling stands as is.
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Time for Apple to move the OS division into a separate company based in a country with clear laws on personal data.

Apple and other tech companies would need their own country. That is not a bad idea.... ;)
It would be one hell of an export business.
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That is simple, today the DOJ is just a gaggle of hand picked political ideologues that happened to have graduated from law school.

Very nicely said. ;)
 
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Time for Apple to move the OS division into a separate company based in a country with clear laws on personal data.

We're no panacea, but I'm curious if there is truly a location where there are stronger personal data laws without some other big gotcha.
 
Umm, that's absolutely NOT any excuse for tolerating our U.S. govt.'s lousy behavior!
When a bunch of people fought and died to become separate from England back in 1776, the idea was creating a new form of government that was notably better than anything else out there (a Democratic Republic).

Now, we've got a bunch of people who want to tear the whole thing down and go with the same type of socialist government found in many other parts of the world.

Be glad you've got our government and not one of the others.
 
They should just have their best engineer make the ten best guesses they can at the password. Then hand back the phone and say they couldn't do it.:p
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We're no panacea, but I'm curious if there is truly a location where there are stronger personal data laws without some other big gotcha.

Given what Apple is worth. They could just buy some little country. Then they can set whatever law they want.
 
Care to elaborate? I'm not suggesting it's a good idea to weaken encryption, just that police don't obtain search warrants for petty offenses.

Some cities are already doing DNA analysis of dog poop to determine whose dog it came from, and send fines to the owner, and you're suggesting that those same cities won't bother to get a rubber-stamped warrant to search a phone for "petty offenses"?
 
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