Apple finding out it isn't so easy to enter the digital payment arena.

Lloydbm41

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It appears the Apple is finding out what Google found out 2 years ago when carriers like ATT and Verizon blocked Google Wallet so they could create their own inferior digital pay system.
Companies like H&M, Best Buy, Macy's, Walmart, Sears and many others aren't going to accept Apple Pay and telling Apple to get lost. Ironically, companies like Sears already have PayPass terminals installed but not turned on. I have seen this first hand. If Best Buy, Sears and others have competing digital pay services, is it possible the NFC terminal will work with Google Wallet, but not with Apple Pay simply because Apple has sandboxes (or as I like to say 'gimped') the iPhone's ability to handshake with any NFC terminal?

That said, I love reading all the bvtthvrt comments on AppleInsider located here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/182765
 

corlando465

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Sep 17, 2014
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I certainly wish all the companies could work together to make this happen. Apple's concept sounds like a great way to prevent so many account breaches that have happened over the past few months. We need some sort of new technology to stay ahead of/defeat these cyber criminals.
 

aneftp

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Jul 28, 2007
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Everyone wants a "cut" of the mobile payment piece of the pie. Of course it's all about greed.

But saying all this, in 2015 is perfect time for Apple Pay.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/16/apple-pay-is-launching-at-perfect-time.aspx

More and more retailers will have to update their processing systems. It's going to be costly. But retailers who don't update their processing systems will be on the hook for credit card fraud. So it's up to them to decide what's worst.
 

Lloydbm41

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Everyone wants a "cut" of the mobile payment piece of the pie. Of course it's all about greed.

But saying all this, in 2015 is perfect time for Apple Pay.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/16/apple-pay-is-launching-at-perfect-time.aspx

More and more retailers will have to update their processing systems. It's going to be costly. But retailers who don't update their processing systems will be on the hook for credit card fraud. So it's up to them to decide what's worst.
Retailers aren't on the hook for CC fraud, the issuing bank is. At least that is how it works with my banks.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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Oct 27, 2009
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Retailers aren't on the hook for CC fraud, the issuing bank is. At least that is how it works with my banks.
But retailers have to deal with chargebacks. Which cost them extra fees and many times unrecoverable merchandise.
 

aneftp

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Jul 28, 2007
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Retailers aren't on the hook for CC fraud, the issuing bank is. At least that is how it works with my banks.
Not necessarily true. October 2015 is deadline. It depends. The card issuer or the retailer will be on the hook if they don't have the EMV chip and pin.
 

Lloydbm41

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Not necessarily true. October 2015 is deadline. It depends. The card issuer or the retailer will be on the hook if they don't have the EMV chip and pin.
Ahhh, good info there. I had chip and pin when I lived in England, but haven't seen it in use here in the U.S.

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But retailers have to deal with chargebacks. Which cost them extra fees and many times unrecoverable merchandise.
Charge backs, refunds and lost/damaged merchandise is both tax recoverable and accounted for prior to the start of every fiscal year by retail outlets. It is part of doing business.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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Charge backs, refunds and lost/damaged merchandise is both tax recoverable and accounted for prior to the start of every fiscal year by retail outlets. It is part of doing business.
I doubt it's that simple, especially for small businesses.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
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I think it's way too early to speculate on the impact of Apple Pay.

As a service it's not even rolled out yet.

I think the first couple of times having Apple Pay available becomes a marketable feature that appears in a commercial or billboard, and starts driving traffic to competitors, the hold outs will fall in line fairly quick.

If nothing else, we know Apple users tend to be VERY engaged with their devices and ecosystems. Some will gravitate to Apple Pay terminals, which will be a competitive advantage.
 

tbayrgs

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Jul 5, 2009
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It appears the Apple is finding out what Google found out 2 years ago when carriers like ATT and Verizon blocked Google Wallet so they could create their own inferior digital pay system.
Companies like H&M, Best Buy, Macy's, Walmart, Sears and many others aren't going to accept Apple Pay and telling Apple to get lost. Ironically, companies like Sears already have PayPass terminals installed but not turned on. I have seen this first hand. If Best Buy, Sears and others have competing digital pay services, is it possible the NFC terminal will work with Google Wallet, but not with Apple Pay simply because Apple has sandboxes (or as I like to say 'gimped') the iPhone's ability to handshake with any NFC terminal?

That said, I love reading all the bvtthvrt comments on AppleInsider located here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/182765
Well, according to the blog post on MR's front page, any NFC enabled terminal will be able to accept Apple Pay, even if the merchant hasn't explicitly stated they 'support' it.

It's important to note that even if a retailer does not explicitly state that it offers support for Apple Pay, the Apple Pay payments system will work in any retail store that allows contactless payments via NFC. Many modern point-of-sale (PoS) systems come with NFC capabilities, and Apple is counting on regulatory changes that will require merchants to update their payment hardware over the course of the next year.
Yes, early adoption will likely be a bit slow but as others have stated, merchants will be required to adopt the ability to accept payments from 'chip and pin' functional cards (and thus NFC) by October 2015 else be liable for any associated credit card/debit card fraud. I worked for a few years in risk analysis/fraud and loss prevention in merchant services and credit card processing and those losses can be substantial, especially for smaller merchants. I suspect retailers that have credit card sales significant big ticket items (i.e. Best Buy) will certainly change their tune once this deadline approaches.

The obstacle Google faced with the use of Google Wallet was that carriers crippled the functionality in their branded phones in favor of Isis. They don't have the ability to do the same in iPhones.
 
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Fanaticalism

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Apr 16, 2013
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My only hope is that excitement isn't lost to due the early announcement of a compelling service with a snails pace roll out. People are creatures of habit and are easily deflated. We always want to try the latest and greatest but once something loses steam it is very difficult to recover.
 

gotluck

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I was under the impression 'official support' doesnt matter. I am confused as to what official support actually entails.

From what I understand, nfc capable terminal = both apple pay and google wallet work.
 

jamezr

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Aug 7, 2011
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I was under the impression 'official support' doesnt matter. I am confused as to what official support actually entails.

From what I understand, nfc capable terminal = both apple pay and google wallet work.
That was my understanding as well. Unless a product was specifically blocked they should both work.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
I was under the impression 'official support' doesnt matter. I am confused as to what official support actually entails.
It's not so much on the merchant side (although their terminals will need to know that the MC/Visa token account ranges are valid numbers)... but more on the bank side:

1. Your card's issuing bank has to write code for its servers, to talk with Apple's servers, to register your card. (Or hire a service to do so.)

2. Your card's issuing bank has to know how to handle tokens. (Or hire a service to do so.)

Other wallets, like Google's bypassed the need for all this cooperation by being the single end point for registration and detokenization, and everything between it and the actual banks are ordinary transactions.

An upside to Apple doing it Visa/MC's way, is that all store-specific rewards stay in place. With Google's way, they are the merchant-of-record. So at least at this time, you still get award points by amount, but nothing extra if say you get more for a participating restaurant.
 

tbayrgs

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I was under the impression 'official support' doesnt matter. I am confused as to what official support actually entails.

From what I understand, nfc capable terminal = both apple pay and google wallet work.
That was my understanding as well. Unless a product was specifically blocked they should both work.
And therein lies the rub as in my experience, US carriers are blocking the use of Google Wallet on their devices. If Google could get past this obstacle, we might see some real headway, with the two heavy hitters in the mobile industry behind he push towards mobile payments.
 

burgman

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Sep 24, 2013
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Ahhh, good info there. I had chip and pin when I lived in England, but haven't seen it in use here in the U.S.

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Charge backs, refunds and lost/damaged merchandise is both tax recoverable and accounted for prior to the start of every fiscal year by retail outlets. It is part of doing business.
My bank, Wells Fargo just issued me a chip and pin Visa card. because I travel to Europe a lot it will make things easier. Worthless for now in US.
 

Lloydbm41

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And therein lies the rub as in my experience, US carriers are blocking the use of Google Wallet on their devices. If Google could get past this obstacle, we might see some real headway, with the two heavy hitters in the mobile industry behind he push towards mobile payments.
Google bypassed the carriers with Google Wallet. That's why anyone can download the app now and use it with any NFC enabled Android phone running KitKat (except the Evo 4g).
 

kalex

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Oct 1, 2007
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Google bypassed the carriers with Google Wallet. That's why anyone can download the app now and use it with any NFC enabled Android phone running KitKat (except the Evo 4g).
thats recent. wasn't like that before
 

mattopotamus

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Jun 12, 2012
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Not necessarily true. October 2015 is deadline. It depends. The card issuer or the retailer will be on the hook if they don't have the EMV chip and pin.
On a related note, the last 2 credit cards I received both have chip and pin technology.
 

Lylyluvda916

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Aug 28, 2012
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With major retailers getting information stolen, I don't see mobile payments being too far off from being a thing of the norm. Cards and pin codes just aren't enough anymore.
 

Lloydbm41

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thats recent. wasn't like that before
Recent? It's been like that for a year. I don't consider that recent.

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I doubt it's that simple, especially for small businesses.
Not referring to mom and pop small businesses. Let's face it, those small businesses aren't gonna have paypass readers anyway or anything else that costs excessive money and maintenance.

I am referring to 'retail outlets' like Best Buy, Sports Authority, Sears, Nike and the like.
 

danny_w

macrumors 601
Mar 8, 2005
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Austin, TX
Well, according to the blog post on MR's front page, any NFC enabled terminal will be able to accept Apple Pay, even if the merchant hasn't explicitly stated they 'support' it.



Yes, early adoption will likely be a bit slow but as others have stated, merchants will be required to adopt the ability to accept payments from 'chip and pin' functional cards (and thus NFC) by October 2015 else be liable for any associated credit card/debit card fraud. I worked for a few years in risk analysis/fraud and loss prevention in merchant services and credit card processing and those losses can be substantial, especially for smaller merchants. I suspect retailers that have credit card sales significant big ticket items (i.e. Best Buy) will certainly change their tune once this deadline approaches.

The obstacle Google faced with the use of Google Wallet was that carriers crippled the functionality in their branded phones in favor of Isis. They don't have the ability to do the same in iPhones.
As I understand it merchants will have to update their cc terminals to accept EMV but that is not the same as NFC. You can have the 1st without having the 2nd. Somebody on here wrote that their cc processor wants $300 for an EMV terminal but $950 plus higher processing fees for an NFC terminal. If that is true I can see a lot of smaller businesses never supporting NFC because they will naver break even.
 

tbayrgs

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Google bypassed the carriers with Google Wallet. That's why anyone can download the app now and use it with any NFC enabled Android phone running KitKat (except the Evo 4g).
thats recent. wasn't like that before
Recent? It's been like that for a year. I don't consider that recent.
Didn't know that either but hadn't tried since I retired my HTC One (M7) last fall. Good to know.

But see the problem there--we're more tech conscious than the general consumer and we had no idea. A little effort from Google to market this could go a long way.
 
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Lloydbm41

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Didn't know that either but hadn't tried since I retired my HTC One (M7) last fall. Good to know.

But see the problem there--we're more tech conscious than the general consumer and we had no idea. A little effort from Google to market this could go a long way.
For whatever reason, google doesn't like to advertise. I have seen 1 advert in the last year from google and that was for the Chromecast. I wish they would advertise more.
 
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