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Apple frauding first day sales numbers?

T

thesmoth

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 7, 2008
367
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So by all accounts, anywhere but an official apple store got VERY few ipad 2's (on the order of 5-50), and apple stores still not a lot... There are how many apple stores in the world, a few hundred?

So we're looking at what, a few thousand ipads total... maybe 10-20k tops?

So how are people coming up with these 500k figures, are these including online pre-orders that will ship in a few weeks?
 
thesmoth said:
So by all accounts, anywhere but an official apple store got VERY few ipad 2's (on the order of 5-50), and apple stores still not a lot... There are how many apple stores in the world, a few hundred?

So we're looking at what, a few thousand ipads total... maybe 10-20k tops?

So how are people coming up with these 500k figures, are these including online pre-orders that will ship in a few weeks?
Click to expand...



Until Apple releases its official sales figures its not official... its still only been less than 24 hours since the preorders (which haven't shipped) and a few hours since the release @ retailers... give it a few days before you start crying foul?
 
thesmoth said:
So by all accounts, anywhere but an official apple store got VERY few ipad 2's (on the order of 5-50), and apple stores still not a lot... There are how many apple stores in the world, a few hundred?

So we're looking at what, a few thousand ipads total... maybe 10-20k tops?

So how are people coming up with these 500k figures, are these including online pre-orders that will ship in a few weeks?
Click to expand...

Based on accounts I've read, online orders are now being charged. Since Apple get the money on that day, I would assume its counted as a sale on that date (today)
 
Munitalp said:
Until Apple releases its official sales figures its not official... its still only been less than 24 hours since the preorders (which haven't shipped) and a few hours since the release @ retailers... give it a few days before you start crying foul?
Click to expand...

What i'm saying is they couldn't possible sell more than 10-50 thousand units in stores over the next few days, just based on their limited number of stores, limited supplies, and limited speed at which they can physically handle customers. So a majority of sales must go through online order, correct?
 
thesmoth said:
So by all accounts, anywhere but an official apple store got VERY few ipad 2's (on the order of 5-50), and apple stores still not a lot... There are how many apple stores in the world, a few hundred?

So we're looking at what, a few thousand ipads total... maybe 10-20k tops?

So how are people coming up with these 500k figures, are these including online pre-orders that will ship in a few weeks?
Click to expand...

There were some best buys that got over 200 iPads...Apple definitely had the most then BB and then walmart and target were random probably ranging from one to fifty. But there were definitely a lot sold today
 
Full of Win said:
Based on accounts I've read, online orders are now being charged. Since Apple get the money on that day, I would assume its counted as a sale on that date (today)
Click to expand...

can apple apply the charge to a credit card account without shipping the merchandise?
 
thesmoth said:
So by all accounts, anywhere but an official apple store got VERY few ipad 2's (on the order of 5-50), and apple stores still not a lot... There are how many apple stores in the world, a few hundred?

So we're looking at what, a few thousand ipads total... maybe 10-20k tops?

So how are people coming up with these 500k figures, are these including online pre-orders that will ship in a few weeks?
Click to expand...

Some high traffic Apple Stores will sell many more than the less frequented stores

my guess is they did their homework and you are misjudging your own estimate
 
First, it's a pretty strong statement to accuse Apple of fraud, when they have made zero public statements about iPad 2 sales. Some analysts and journalists have, but that's a far cry from an official statement. Further, do you have any idea how much trouble Apple would be in from the SEC if they knowingly reported false sales data?

There are 236 Apple stores in the US. Let's say each got 300 iPads.

236 * 300 = 70,800

Let's also say that other retailers got about the same amount of iPads. So total B&M sales would be about 150,000.

Online sales are probably at least that number or higher. So total first day sales look to be north of 300,000.

Analysts are saying around 500,000 which seems possible.
 
steadysignal said:
can apple apply the charge to a credit card account without shipping the merchandise?
Click to expand...

Yes they can it is not illegal just unethical. And it does violate most credit card agreements between them and merchants. But many companies do not seem to care about doing that. Since it is also a violation to have a minimum charge or to charge a fee to use a credit card. But how many mom and pop stores do that? If they are charging before shipping apple will take a media hit and rightfully so in my book.
 
quetzalcoatl said:
Yes they can it is not illegal just unethical. And it does violate most credit card agreements between them and merchants. But many companies do not seem to care about doing that. Since it is also a violation to have a minimum charge or to charge a fee to use a credit card. But how many mom and pop stores do that? If they are charging before shipping apple will take a media hit and rightfully so in my book.
Click to expand...

Just guessing, they could just be authorizing the cc and then charge when ships.
 
I am sure it's more than the Galaxy Tab and Xoom total sales numbers combined.

I am sure they are charging cards and then readying products for shipment. It wouldn't do them any good to put it on the truck and then charge. What if the card is declined ?
 
MrWillie said:
I am sure it's more than the Galaxy Tab and Xoom total sales numbers combined.
Click to expand...

That's not hard to do :D

I am sure they are charging cards and then readying products for shipment. It wouldn't do them any good to put it on the truck and then charge. What if the card is declined ?
Click to expand...

Apple is doing whatever they usually do for online sales. So they are charging cc's when the product for the order is in production.
 
MrWillie said:
I am sure it's more than the Galaxy Tab and Xoom total sales numbers combined.

I am sure they are charging cards and then readying products for shipment. It wouldn't do them any good to put it on the truck and then charge. What if the card is declined ?
Click to expand...

Are you sure? XOOM is still out of stock in many Best Buys. I am not sure this is going to be the case with iPad 2.
 
lilo777 said:
Are you sure? XOOM is still out of stock in many Best Buys. I am not sure this is going to be the case with iPad 2.
Click to expand...

Bahaha, I don't think you could actually believe that the numbers between the iPad 2 and Xoom are going to be close.
 
Best buy I was in had a ton. I was 5th in line, but by 5 pm line had about 300 or more people. Everyone had ticket and they still had few left. maybe wal mart or target got few. Or it depends geographically.
 
Apple counts sales when the item is shipped.

read the company's 10K.

FOB destination point vs. FOB shipping point.

All those iPads on the target, bestbuy, walmart shelves are all sales for Apple b/c apple shipped them to target, bestbuy etc.

All the ipads sold at apple stores count as sales when the customer buys them minus some reserve for returns and allowances.

That is hundreds of thousands of units sold. The key difference between apple and other tablet makers is that the items "sold" to target, best buy etc. actually wind up in the customers hands and don't sit on the shelf at the store.

Also all the online orders do not count as sales yet until apple ships them to you. Once they hit UPS / FedEx that is a sale to Apple.

The key for apple from a business standpoint is getting all those online ipad orders to count as "sales" prior to April 1 as they'll count as sales for the company's earnings release coming up. A 2 weeks shipping window will let those online orders squeek in and count as sales for the month.

I bet apple sells between 800K and 1M ipads this weekend alone.
 
Within an 3 mile radius of my house there are 8 different places I could have gone and got an ipad 2 today if I wanted to wait. Yeah, none around at all :rolleyes:
 
MrWillie said:
I am sure it's more than the Galaxy Tab and Xoom total sales numbers combined.

I am sure they are charging cards and then readying products for shipment. It wouldn't do them any good to put it on the truck and then charge. What if the card is declined ?
Click to expand...

You don't understand how the process works. Charging a credit card is a two step process. You authorize the amount and then "settle" the amount to actually finalize the process. Once you have an authorization, the card can't then get "declined". A "decline" is part of the authorization process.

So what retailers do is authorize the amount at time of purchase and then settle the amount when they ship. This applies of course to cases where you are buying something that ships later.
 
So to sum up:

Apple, who hasn't actually given a sales number yet, is lying about their sales number. For proof, you know how many iPads each store got, even though at least three people here have different personal experiences. And despite the official word from Apple that they only count it as a sale when they actually ship it, a guy who has a sig and location that make me doubt that he could be trusted to determine the correct color of the sky is sure Apple is counting all the pre-orders. You know, in that number that they haven't released yet. And to top that off, a third commenter claims the iPad will not sell as well as the Xoom.

Is this a competition to beat the "iPad 2 is actually not thinner" thread?
:rolleyes:
 
thesmoth said:
What i'm saying is they couldn't possible sell more than 10-50 thousand units in stores over the next few days, just based on their limited number of stores, limited supplies, and limited speed at which they can physically handle customers. So a majority of sales must go through online order, correct?
Click to expand...

I did a little googling and came up with a rough estimate of 1200 Targets, 850 Best Buys, and 3800 Walmarts in the US. Assuming BB got an average of 75 per store and T/WM got an average of 5 per store (although it varies so widely from 0 to 50 that who knows, but I'm going conservative here), that's nearly 90,000 iPads without even touching the Apple retail stores. And also, remember that the first 24 hours goes til 5pm tomorrow - a lot of stores may be getting new shipments in in the morning, and they may be guessing that those will sell out, too.
 
Hush you, take your math and your logic and go play somewhere you are wanted. This is a thread with epic fail potential!

I will not. Let. You. Derail it!
 
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