Apple Genius Bar Didn't Recognize MacBook Pro 3G Prototype, Apple Now Wants it Back

[mtbdudex]

as an Auto OE we of course have many non-production stuff.
Wheels rims, seats, audio head units, steering wheels, etc, etc.
Nothing is allowed out, in the trash, w/o it being destroyed, too much liability.
We have clear corporate policy covering that.
Not even given to local HS for their shop classes.

I'd wager Apple has same.

The fact this had serial#/etc, someone inside took it outside....
It's their asset - taxable/etc, on their books.
My gut feel is Apple is still legit owner, time will tell.

 

[pdjudd]

I seriously hope they are paying him well for it. Otherwise I see no point in returning it.

He may not have a choice if he cannot prove that he legally obtained it. Right now Apple is saying that this did not happen.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Slow news day???

Who cares.

The folks posting in the thread.

Next.

 

[GenesisST]

Slow news day???

Who cares.

Slow life?

Why do you bother?

 

[pdjudd]

In the case of who gets stolen property back guilt and innocence is irrelevant.

The legal owner, in this case apple, gets it back. Apple can prove they own it. Unless the person who has it can prove that someone authorized by apple sold it or transfer it he has no rights to keep it.

Indeed. Nobody is talking about formal charges. You can still steal something, and a theft can have occurred without charges being reported. Those are two separate things. Nobody has assigned guilt to anybody here. We have assumed that a theft in some way has occurred, but that has nothing to do with bringing charges - the police and the courts do that as a separate action. There is no evidence that this guy was in the wrong or could be brought up on charges (since it was involving a product manufactured not for sale and was made 4 years ago). We don't know if Apple is going to press charges against him (most likely not since he was not involved in the original action and it happened 4 years ago).

Right now Apple is simply asking for a product that they consider to be theirs.

 

[farleysmaster]

you should have stopped here.

In fairness,
a) there is no bona fide purchaser (as far as I'm aware...) in english law (which I have studied)
and
b) it doesn't change the point that theft from a bin is still theft.
and
c) yeah, maybe but my knowledge of some geographically irrelevant law is still frustratingly less idiotic than some of the philosophising on this thread, as if there was not already common law on these sorts of things...

 

[GorgonPhone]

Will apple even pay him or just bully him and take it. if I had it and they were just going to take it I would disassemble it and photograph every piece to put on the internet.

umm wtf apple is gonna pick it u???it does not belong to them anymore.. unless they pay him for it.. the damn thing is old as hell this is BS.. if i had it i would never tell apple about it at all..

 

[qtx43]

In fairness,
a) there is no bona fide purchaser in english law (which I have studied)
and
b) it doesn't change the point that theft from a bin is still theft.

You keep using that word 'bin'. Are you citing US law or British? Most here would say trash can or garbage.

 

[AppleScruff1]

You're finally getting it after god knows how many pages of comments.

This prototype was always Apple's property and will always be in perpetuity. If it is not in Apple's possession or in the possession of someone under an NDA, it has been illegally obtained.

We will never know if an employee or manufacturing partner illegally sold the unit or if it was stolen. Either way, whoever acquired the device did so illegally.

My gut feeling is that this prototype device can from a manufacturing partner's lab, not one in Cupertino. Let's face it, Foxconn employees don't get compensated as well as Apple employees do, there's probably more temptation for the former to find a way to a quick buck.

Apple's ownership of prototypes is no different than really any other high-tech hardware company (HP, Cisco, TiVo, whoever). Prototypes are company confidential property and are tools used in the development of the final shipping product. They aren't employee samples.

So you know all the inside info? Please show me where it is stated that the laptop was stolen. You and everyone else here is assuming. I'm not a lawyer nor do I work for Apple. If it is stolen, then all is as you say. If it's not, it's a different story. There's nothing for me to get.

This is the internet where everyone is assumed to be guilty until proven more guilty.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)



None of those things change the fact it is stolen property and needs to be returned.

Show me where Apple stated the laptop was stolen. MR user opinions don't count.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Employees can steal things.

They certainly can. Please post a link to show that an Apple employee stole this.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)

In the case of who gets stolen property back guilt and innocence is irrelevant.

The legal owner, in this case apple, gets it back. Apple can prove they own it. Unless the person who has it can prove that someone authorized by apple sold it or transfer it he has no rights to keep it.

If it is stolen property, it goes back to Apple.

 

[farleysmaster]

You keep using that word 'bin'. Are you citing US law or British? Most here would say trash can or garbage.

English/Welsh. Hence, I admit it is largely irrelevant...

 

[alhedges]

If the prototype was actually stolen, then it belongs to Apple and they have the right to take it back. The concept that a bona fide purchaser has the right to property greater than that of the owner only applies in the US to real property or, occasionally, to personal property that it titled (like automobiles).

But anyone who thinks that something like this could never be let loose in the wild without being stolen has never worked for a large organization - there are dozens of ways that this could happen.

From my own experience:

1. Prototype stays on shelf in a lab for a year after it's no longer needed. Then someone moves it to a storage room because they need that shelf. Other, non-prototype surplus equipment is then put in the storage room. Months or years later, someone is told to dispose of the property in the storage room and it is sold or given away. There's no theft, even though "Apple" didn't really intend to give away the prototype.

2. The wrong inventory sticker is put on the prototype and it is disposed of as if it were whatever it was labeled as. (This is surprisingly common - I know of a case where Boeing was missing some aircraft engines - turns out they were mislabeled and sold). Again, this is not theft.

 

[boazh]

no hay compensación

Apple will and should get it back without paying the guy a dime!
it's obvious that this unit was obtained ileagaly... its interesting that Apple has interest in this though, I wonder why? what's the big dealio?

 

[mtbdudex]

From http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2165252&macbook+antenna

According to the guy I got it from:

"Sorry! The Cell phone interface was never tested, I did not see working either while working with Apple and I did not receive any Module either which can be installed at J1300.

For you info it has cell Antenna also on right Edge of the Display edge."


Oh, well. Either way I definitely now have one of the most unique Macbook Pro's ever! No idea what I'll do with it, heh.

Apple will be going after the original craiglist person shortly......it would be good PR for them to give this guy some $$ though...

 

[Cloudane]

Tough call as to whether they'd pay him anything. It depends if they want to be seen to "play nice" but typically they tend to have strong principles (even if it means not being Mr Nice Guy). Or at least Steve Jobs did. So if they view it as stolen / still their property, I can see them just expecting it back on the basic grounds of "we've got more lawyers than you, and it's ours".

But they're also vey secretive and may want to shackle him with an NDA. In which case I'm guessing there'd be an incentive involved - and if so we'll never know about it because the incentive itself will be part of the NDA.

 

[cvaldes]

So you know all the inside info? Please show me where it is stated that the laptop was stolen. You and everyone else here is assuming. I'm not a lawyer nor do I work for Apple. If it is stolen, then all is as you say. If it's not, it's a different story. There's nothing for me to get.





Show me where Apple stated the laptop was stolen. MR user opinions don't count.



They certainly can. Please post a link to show that an Apple employee stole this.



If it is stolen property, it goes back to Apple.

I see you still don't get it.

It doesn't really matter if it's stolen or not. It was illegally acquired; whether or not it was improperly disposed of, stolen, or illegally sold/surrendered/donated/gifted is moot.

Apple is reclaiming its rightful property. They don't need to explain how the property left their control.

 

[accessoriesguy]

Clearly more Apple retail employees should read MacRumors. I know I'd spot Apple's prototype-red logic board.

sadly i would too, it would be awesome to show up one of those geniuses, then again that would be pretty rude and a pretty messed up thing to pull when they are just working. it is only cool when you play it in your head.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

I see you still don't get it.

It doesn't really matter if it's stolen or not. It was illegally acquired; whether or not it was improperly disposed of, stolen, or illegally sold/surrendered/donated/gifted is moot.

Apple is reclaiming its rightful property. They don't need to explain how the property left their control.

If it was dumped, given to a tech recycling / Disposal place to “recycle the right way" and they re sold it then apple does not have a clam to it.

What if a GM car found it's way with clear tile to a sale lot's (due to some mess up and or bad paper work, or just a big lot of test cars being sold) and you payed for it with good tile and paper work. GM just can't take it back and say it was never to be sold.

Now this being a older laptop makes it seem like it ended up in some kind Disposal, decommission list or send out as decommissioned then apple does not have the rights to just take it back.

That Machine number has to be some kind of apple list some where or it may just be a custom systems from OEM parts and or some kind of non apple hack.

 

[grindcor]

For those who haven't seen the previous threads: I'm Carl Frega, heh.


I had actually been talking to Cnet all week, since the writer found the full backstory (especially the small claims part) interesting. He asked me if he could publish it, and I asked him to wait until I had heard something from Apple. Despite all my attempts I never did, so I finally said sure go ahead.

Then did Apple contact me . . . . directly, by phone. Quite possibly because Cnet contacted Apple PR to ask for comment before publishing. Their representative was very pleasant and polite actually, and we chatted for a while. He promised to call me back an hour later with a resolution. When he did they wanted to send an agent from Charlotte directly to me to recover the laptop immediately, tonight, and I didn't feel comfortable with that. Not based only on a phone call, with nothing at all in writing, and in the middle of the night (by the time they would reach Raleigh).

I said I needed to consult my lawyer, since I had promised I would do so before taking any action regarding the machine, and that we will take the matter back up first thing in the morning. I'll let him handle the matter from here rather than dealing with Apple directly, and hopefully everyone will be happy with the outcome. I actually rather like Apple and their products, so try not to bash too much guys! They haven't really done anything wrong at this point.

That's ********, people involved in a pending lawsuit aren't allowed to comment on their case, and his macrumors account is like 20 days old. Smells like an attention seeking fraud to me.

 

[alhedges]

That's ********, people involved in a pending lawsuit aren't allowed to comment on their case, and his macrumors account is like 20 days old.

People involved in a lawsuit can say whatever they want. It's not necessarily a good idea, of course.

 

[notjustjay]

He better get the $70k he would have received from the eBay sale!!

The odds were very slim that the high bidder of the $70K auction would ever actually pay up even if the auction ended legitimately.

 

[cvaldes]

If it was dumped, given to a tech recycling / Disposal place to “recycle the right way" and they re sold it then apple does not have a clam to it.

What if a GM car found it's way with clear tile to a sale lot's (due to some mess up and or bad paper work, or just a big lot of test cars being sold) and you payed for it with good tile and paper work. GM just can't take it back and say it was never to be sold.

Now this being a older laptop makes it seem like it ended up in some kind Disposal, decommission list or send out as decommissioned then apple does not have the rights to just take it back.

Yeah, but who is going to claim that the recycling company didn't do their job properly? Apple will just say they never gave the device to a recycling company to be junked. The recycling company won't admit to losing the device.

My guess is that Apple's lawyers have written thick contracts about the recycling company's responsibilities. If you want to get paid to junk prototype units for Apple, you need to agree to a certain level of responsibility.

It's not like Apple is calling is Recology and leaving the items on the DeAnza Boulevard curb for pickup.

 

[Skoal]

Not everyone cares only about money

Apple does I assure you!

 

[Anonymous Freak]

For those who haven't seen the previous threads: I'm Carl Frega, heh.


I had actually been talking to Cnet all week, since the writer found the full backstory (especially the small claims part) interesting. He asked me if he could publish it, and I asked him to wait until I had heard something from Apple. Despite all my attempts I never did, so I finally said sure go ahead.

Then did Apple contact me . . . . directly, by phone. Quite possibly because Cnet contacted Apple PR to ask for comment before publishing. Their representative was very pleasant and polite actually, and we chatted for a while. He promised to call me back an hour later with a resolution. When he did they wanted to send an agent from Charlotte directly to me to recover the laptop immediately, tonight, and I didn't feel comfortable with that. Not based only on a phone call, with nothing at all in writing, and in the middle of the night (by the time they would reach Raleigh).

I said I needed to consult my lawyer, since I had promised I would do so before taking any action regarding the machine, and that we will take the matter back up first thing in the morning. I'll let him handle the matter from here rather than dealing with Apple directly, and hopefully everyone will be happy with the outcome. I actually rather like Apple and their products, so try not to bash too much guys! They haven't really done anything wrong at this point.

I bet the person who bought it from you via Craigslist, then sued you, is punching himself now for giving this up.

In know that in previous cases like this, the item-owner has said how much Apple has given them for the prototype, would you mind letting us know? (In similar cases, it has usually been the equivalent new product, so I would imagine you're going to get a new MacBook Pro; but it would be nice to know for sure.)

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Yeah, but who is going to claim that the recycling company didn't do their job properly? Apple will just say they never gave the device to a recycling company to be junked. The recycling company won't admit to losing the device.

My guess is that Apple's lawyers have written thick contracts about the recycling company's responsibilities. If you want to get paid to junk prototype units for Apple, you need to agree to a certain level of responsibility.

It's not like Apple is calling is Recology and leaving the items on the DeAnza Boulevard curb for pickup.

A lot of big companies just have a pile / bin / what even for junking and a lot of the recycling places sell systems as well. Also the prototype laptop may of ended up in the common recycling pile.

It had the nvidia chip bug so it may of been sold as working at one time or sold as part of a lot of apple laptops.

 

[cvaldes]

A lot of big companies just have a pile / bin / what even for junking and a lot of the recycling places sell systems as well. Also the prototype laptop may of ended up in the common recycling pile.

It had the nvidia chip bug so it may of been sold as working at one time or sold as part of a lot of apple laptops.

Yes, but we're talking about Apple.

They are highly secretive. When they move a prototype device outside a lab, it is draped in black cloth. Considering the relatively few number of prototypes that have found their way outside the company, it is pretty darned clear that Apple takes extra pains in destroying unwanted devices.

If Apple behaved as you described (throwing them in the common recycling pile), we'd probably see thousands of Apple prototypes on sale.

Apple's behavior in this instance (and others) is clear indication that they don't want people to see these. According to Carl Frega, they proposed to send a person in the middle of the night to carry it away by hand. That doesn't sound like a company who doesn't care about where its prototypes end up.