Apple Gives iCloud Customers in Greece 30 Extra Days of Storage Amid Fiscal Crisis

[tomnavratil]

Probably laziest country in the world.

When it comes to tax collection, absolutely. When it comes to tax evasion, they are very active.

 

[ptb42]

Sad what a crap government can do to it's citizens.

You make it sound like this is the result of one government, from one point in time... not so sure you can simplify it to that level. Not that the current Greek government is really helping the situation.

You can't blame this on the government. The Greeks elected their representatives -- and especially in the last election, they elected them expressly to refuse any significant economic reform.

In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve. Yes, there is a subset that aren't represented, but it's because they didn't vote or they were on the losing side. It's two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner.

When the majority of an entire nation act like spoiled children, this is what happens.

 

[juanm]

First, there are lots and lots of people here in the US who work 3 different jobs and 16 hours per day and barely pay their bills and rent. Also lots that due in the streets. Probably more people like that here than the total population of Greece. Greece isn't special in this regard. Their problems today are caused by the corruption, misdeeds, and false promises of the few from the past. What does any of that have to do with iCloud?

Second, how is free iCloud storage going to help people that can barely pay their rent and bills or starving in the streets? This just helps those that can afford iPhones - probably people who aren't doing too bad to begin with. This doesn't help those in need at all.

Apple did this because they would rather give folks in Greece another month to pay their iCloud bills rather than have 1000s of credit card numbers be declined all at once - that would be a pain and it might hurt their "App store accounts with active credit cards on file" numbers that they love to brag about.

Not saying Apple isn't an otherwise generous and altruistic company - it is. But this act in particular isn't an example of it. This act is purely to prevent an accounts debacle.

You didn't even begin to understand the what or the why of the situation and Apple's actions, so please refrain from writing.

 

[Ironduke]

You can't blame this on the government. The Greeks elected their representatives -- and especially in the last election, they elected them expressly to refuse any significant economic reform.

In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve. Yes, there is a subset that aren't represented, but it's because they didn't vote or they were on the losing side. It's two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner.

When the majority of an entire nation act like spoiled children, this is what happens.

im pretty sure it was the greek government that miss used hundreds of billions of EU money in the early 00s

 

[oneMadRssn]

You didn't even begin to understand the what or the why of the situation and Apple's actions, so please refrain from writing.

Please enlighten us with your vast economic wisdom and explain how giving a month of cloud service at all helps the Greece situation.

 

[juanm]

Please enlighten us with your vast economic wisdom and explain how giving a month of cloud service at all helps the Greece situation.

Because the problem at stake, as far as Apple is concerned, is not that the Greek are poor (that's not Apple's problem). It's not like Apple's is giving away free iPods or extra iCloud storage in the hopes that it'll solve the Greek issue, but their banks have shut down for a week, so they cannot pay. . It's as simple as having a payment service like Paypal down on scheduled maintenance. Confusing the two concepts is ridiculous. They are giving a month of cloud service because they don't know when the electronic payment services will be online again, but they expect it'll be within a month. Call it a sympathetic courtesy commercial gesture. If it lasted more time, I'd guess Apple would allow downloading the over 5GB content for a while, but lock the uploading to the free 5GB.

 

[DJTaurus]

Was this humiliation of Greeks really necessary?

 

[Bug-Creator]

*shrug*

Ask Tsipras......

(he could have had a very similar deal anytime in the past 5 months without having to secure those assets)

 

[DJTaurus]

With a NeoDrachme Greeks has 2 paths open. Either implement the same reforms to keep it at 0.50€ (assuming it was 1/1 on day one) or print more and more to continue the politics of the past 30++ years. Either way ordinary Greeks will get poorer.


Yeah, cos Argentina is such a success story !!

Sure if you only get informed from the mainstream propaganda press the only solution is to be slaves and sell everything to capitalists... some examples:

Argentina to Seize Control of Oil Firm

Russia and Argentina seal energy package, $3bn in deals

In Argentina, $5 Billion of Mine Projects Is Riding on Elections

 

[Bug-Creator]

Wow, a satellite.... !!! Did not even North Korea have one of those ?

I'm not saying that Argentina isn't progressing, but they for sure still have problems directly connected to their latest bancruptsy.

Now nationalization of (foreign owned) natural resources has been very popular by leftist south american goverments over the past few decades, but it rarely yielded any longer lasting success.

 

[ptb42]

im pretty sure it was the greek government that miss used hundreds of billions of EU money in the early 00s

Yes, but it was a Greek government elected by the Greek citizens, and their representatives were doing what the voters said they wanted. However, it was to get re-elected, and not necessarily in the best interests of the country.

In the Greek's case, it's like Mom feeding her kids a continuous diet of ice cream. It's what the kids want, but in the long run, it's not in their best interest.

 

[b0fh666]

Wow, a satellite.... !!! Did not even North Korea have one of those ?

I'm not saying that Argentina isn't progressing, but they for sure still have problems directly connected to their latest bancruptsy.

Now nationalization of (foreign owned) natural resources has been very popular by leftist south american goverments over the past few decades, but it rarely yielded any longer lasting success.

this guy can't be serious... argentina is a complete mess, has been like that for decades :-D

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

The Euro was never really about trade; it was a political device.

In order to achieve a successful single currency, you must have fiscal union. That in turn means political union, which would be a federal state; a United States of Europe. Some countries like France are keen on that idea; others like Great Britain are not.

The problem is that Europe is made up of very different cultures that are too different to be joined by monetary union. A single currency is a straitjacket that prevents countries from finding a natural level, because the interest rate will always be a compromise to suit the EU and not individual countries.

The other huge problem is immigration. Countries want to control their borders. The EU makes that difficult.

As to a single currency lubricating trade: is trade between the U.S. and Europe hampered by two currencies? No. Similarly, trade between the UK and Europe flows just as smoothly with the British Pound. A single currency is slightly more convenient for holidaymakers, but with cash on the decline, this is much less of an issue these days.

The internal market doesn’t need a common currency per se. The EC had an exchange rate mechanism for nearly 20 years before the Euro was adopted and it greatly helped stabilising currency exchange rates after the US abandoned the gold standard. The European Monetary Union was developed in several stages with the Euro as a the crown piece. The problem with lots of these European projects is that politicians always seem to get carried away and rake decisions against their better judgment, with the resulting mess we have now and no way to move forward.

I am a staunch proponent of the EU and I don’t think that it should be disbanded. People who say that we just need a common market and no EU are oblivious to the fact that we’ve been at that position before and it turned out that countries are still extremely protective of their own economies and seek to undermine the idea of an integrated market that is beyond their unilateral control whenever it suits them, even if the protected interests are relatively small. Many of the EU’s current problems are the result of the patchwork of treaties and lack of truly independent federal institutions and lawmakers. The fact that we have something like a European Council is part of the problem.

Thank you both for your well explained responses.

 

[xSinghx]

*shrug*

Ask Tsipras......

(he could have had a very similar deal anytime in the past 5 months without having to secure those assets)

Which would have landed him in exactly the same position of asking for more money 6-12months later. The point was to break the cycle and actually move to a sustainable plan that would get Greece out of the great depression their economy is in right now, but far be it from capitalist sympathizers to care or want to see that happen. After all, looting the public trust isn't complete yet. I'm sure the banks are still pressuring for opportunities to force the sale of the Greek islands too.

 

[AlecZ]

Kicking them out of the EU won't solve their problems.
A huge amount of their debt needs writing off before they can sort themselves out.

Well, yes, but others in the Eurozone might not care about their problems, only the problems they cause for others without seeming to care at all about any consequences. They're playing poker with the world. BTW, I'm assuming "kick out of the EU" means "kick out of Eurozone".

 

[cmwade77]

Ugh, kick them out of the EU already!!!

Unfortunately that would ultimately crash the world's economy, as would Greece voting to leave the EU. After all, the EU is nowhere near as stable as they would like you to believe. They are truly proving that many of the economists were correct when they were forming that the idea of having a unified currency would ultimately be their downfall.

 

[DJTaurus]

Greece's bailout woes give birth to dark humor and #ThisIsACoup outrage
http://mashable.com/2015/07/12/outrage-humor-greece-talks-stall/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link
http://news247.gr/eidiseis/kosmos/d....it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=news247gr

https://twitter.com/Benjamin_T_Hale/status/620380543033737216

https://twitter.com/MartinCollinson/status/620350371446304768

https://twitter.com/LiamKellyNI/status/620380841210978304

https://twitter.com/davidmcw/status/620354879651975168

https://twitter.com/harrypiercey3/status/620366428399640578

https://twitter.com/counternotions/status/620367072795582464

 

[tennisproha]

Dimockracy eh. lol jk.

It is ironic how a precedential (new word) modern democracy can come to this. Makes you wonder.

How nice of apple. Hopefully no one will try to take advantage of this.

 

[xSinghx]

And don't forget:
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” Margaret Thatcher

Except it's capitalism's problem. Bad loans made by banks that had to be bailed out by EU tax payers who now have turned that into an opportunity to privatize half of Greece with no signs of giving them a way out other than selling off the Parthenon.

Even for the things you can fault Greece with it's interesting you put welfare at the top given things like pensions are programs people pay into and therefore rightfully have a claim on. Not to mention the importance of making sure those at the bottom have money to spend to stimulate a recovery in the economy. Meanwhile corruption and tax avoidance takes a back seat as secondary in your complaint. It shows where your ideological bias lies.

 

[rctlr]

View attachment 568286
2014 OECD stats [/QUOTE]

Couldn't the statistics be down to good old german efficiency?

 

[sim667]

Ugh, kick them out of the EU already!!!

Why?

At the end of the day they're owed around 279bn euros in debt..... so maybe their debtors should clear their debt with greece so greece can pay off their debts.

 

[Happybunny]

Why?

At the end of the day they're owed around 279bn euros in debt..... so maybe their debtors should clear their debt with greece so greece can pay off their debts.

Source?

Seeing that Apple doesn't pay it's fair share of tax in Europe, it really doesn't surprise me that they pull this stunt in another place that has LAX tax payers.

 

[takao]

Even for the things you can fault Greece with it's interesting you put welfare at the top given things like pensions are programs people pay into and therefore rightfully have a claim on.

the greek pension system like many others is a pay-as-you-go system opposed to a capital based system/mixed system.
The claim thus is only on paper. The advantage is that it has a small operating cost/overhead, crashing completly is impossible, and it's completly independent on the current market situations.

The risks are demographics though. It can only pay as much in pensions as it receives in payments. If the amount of pensioner rise because the population is becoming older on average the ratio between working population and pensioners becomes worse it only leaves 3 options:

1. rise percentage required to pay into the system
2. cut pensions
3. increase retirement age

(if the demographics turn in the different direction all those can be reversed as well)

since all 3 cost votes in election big time most countries with pay-as-you-go system prefer to go for bridging bad demographic situation (after all those are temporary ! 20-30 years later the problem is gone) by supplementing it with money out of the general federal budget.
Doing that for 20-30 years is a big financial burden even if you aren't bankrupt like greece. If you are bankrupt you only have those 3 options left.

The pay-as-go pensions are safe and will always be paid, as long as payments are made(that's why unemployment hurts twice in the budget) but the sum you will be paid 30 years in future nobody can predict.

That's why a multi tiered/mixed pension system makes sense combining a secure pay-as-go pension system with additional private pension investments which then obviously should be based on the worldwide economy... because the world can never be broke or have demographic problem

 

[tomnavratil]

Except it's capitalism's problem. Bad loans made by banks that had to be bailed out by EU tax payers who now have turned that into an opportunity to privatize half of Greece with no signs of giving them a way out other than selling off the Parthenon.

Even for the things you can fault Greece with it's interesting you put welfare at the top given things like pensions are programs people pay into and therefore rightfully have a claim on. Not to mention the importance of making sure those at the bottom have money to spend to stimulate a recovery in the economy. Meanwhile corruption and tax avoidance takes a back seat as secondary in your complaint. It shows where your ideological bias lies.



Or not and you're just a racist:

View attachment 568286
2014 OECD stats

Of course, capitalism is not perfect either and that issue you describe is a problem of a capitalist economy, I completely agree on it.

In this situation, Euro has been used purely as a political device to control Greek assets, which can be turned into profit in order to reduce the debt and to rebuild the banking system. I agree that conditions of the privatisation were not great for Greece however they are the one asking for money.

This is only partly true, I was mostly referring to state pensions and to government workers. I agree that people who were saving from their own income have a right to claim that money, no problem with that at all.

That is a good point however the problem of that is that government is unable to collect tax from that economical stimulation and thus supporting the grey economy, which is, partly fine, because it still helps the business, however the government doesn't see much tax income out of it.

Actually not really, tax avoidance and corruption with clientelism is one of the major causes of the crisis in the first place. Friends supporting friends of friends of friends.

The reason why Greece should be kicked out of the EU zone is that through New Drachma, they will be able to rebuild its economy without fiscal interventions of the EU, mainly driven by Germany and France.

 

[sim667]

Source?

Seeing that Apple doesn't pay it's fair share of tax in Europe, it really doesn't surprise me that they pull this stunt in another place that has LAX tax payers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31849430