Apple, Google and Others Set to Face Trial Over Anti-Poaching Agreements

[techwhiz]

I would farther it out and say people who do not see it at all are rather blind to how wages work and how this is wage surpression.

Another item I am strongly against is H1B1 Visa's expansion. I would rather say reduction. The proof that we do not have a shortage of qualifided IT workers in the US (standard argument for them) is the fact that the wages have not been increasing. If their was a shortage IT workers pay would be increasing a lot faster than inflation. Given that it has not even kept up with inflation tells us that there is no shortage.

As a member of the IEEE and currently working in Silicon Valley, I have to agree. Companies like Infosys that build their whole business around H1B should be shuttered -> http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...h1b-visa-system-us-senator/article4646760.ece.

If unemployment in the tech sector rises above 3% the H1B program should be put on hold.

Companies will write a job description so detailed that it requires the H1 they want to hire. I have seen this done for decades; in multiple companies.

The H1B system is full of abuses.

Anyway, back on point.
Companies that collude to suppress wages like these did should be punished.
Settlement without admitting guilt, is just semantics.
Why settle, if you aren't guilty? Fight and prevail, yea right!

 

[josh.b]

And just another case where Apple will be cleared of any wrongdoing.

you sound sad, are you a troll here or legit user? Sorry if you are the latter but you come across as someone who just needs to get their apple hate off their chest to defend an android or MS purchase by coming into an Apple forum and dissing Apple.

This is not the movies and this is definitely not kidnapping developers throwing them into the boot of a car and driving them to Apple to work in chains. The individual makes a choice just like a sports person switching teams for their own reasons. Would you get all cranky at your favourite sports team if they bought a player from another team? Same thing. Get over your Apple hate.

PS there is big money in sports with betting too so you can't claim that Apple is stealing profits.

 

[lolkthxbai]

And my company has sued employees for going to work for local competition before.

I'm not even sure if many corporate employees at Apple would want to leave. They have a very high satisfaction rating amongst their employees according to glassdoor. And turnover was revealed to have been one of the lowest of all time. Apple's greatest tool to create these products and services has been the culture. Without it, I don't think there would be a sense of unity amongst the employees. My guess would be that the majority of employees at Apple would not want to leave to work for another employer even if they weren't obligated to sign any sort of anti-competition agreement. Apple seems to take care of their employees pretty well. Not perfect, but I don't know if anyone has ever come so close. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TJH133]

I'm not even sure if many corporate employees at Apple would want to leave. They have a very high satisfaction rating amongst their employees according to glassdoor. And turnover was revealed to have been one of the lowest of all time. Apple's greatest tool to create these products and services has been the culture. Without it, I don't think there would be a sense of unity amongst the employees. My guess would be that the majority of employees at Apple would not want to leave to work for another employer even if they weren't obligated to sign any sort of anti-competition agreement. Apple seems to take care of their employees pretty well. Not perfect, but I don't know if anyone has ever come so close. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

while that may be true. It does not change the fact that it hurts all of their wages.
To poach an employee it might take a 10-15%+ pay raise plus other perks. Those poachings make a huge difference for everyone.
For example my dad's former employer since he was poach so to speak has done a pretty massive across the board pay raise to bring their pay in line with other in that industry as they had lost a lot of engineers who said one of the the reasons they left was for more money among other things.

If the anti poaching was in place guess what all those engineers who were left would not of gotten a double digit pay increase and those that left would not of gotten their much larger pay increase. A lot of those jobs were poach jobs. Other companies want those employees and reach out to them.

 

[Colino]

you sound sad, are you a troll here or legit user? Sorry if you are the latter but you come across as someone who just needs to get their apple hate off their chest to defend an android or MS purchase by coming into an Apple forum and dissing Apple.

This is not the movies and this is definitely not kidnapping developers throwing them into the boot of a car and driving them to Apple to work in chains. The individual makes a choice just like a sports person switching teams for their own reasons. Would you get all cranky at your favourite sports team if they bought a player from another team? Same thing. Get over your Apple hate.

PS there is big money in sports with betting too so you can't claim that Apple is stealing profits.

Didn't you read my other posts? I've been about the only person defending Apple over on this thread.

 

[JAT]

I fail to see how slightly higher turnover at Apple, and slightly higher wages, will cause quality to decline. Care to elaborate?

I believe people should get paid what they're worth. Crazy idea, I know. I must be such a crybaby.

This country is now based on "good enough", and it never is. Few companies or individuals even try anymore. And why would you care about your company, your product, if it isn't really yours? When you stick around for less time than necessary for completing a product, it comes out incomplete. See: Microsoft.

On the contrary to your mental block about money, I believe people will get paid when they do a good job. Switching companies every 18 months just for a slightly higher paycheck won't accomplish either great products or great wages. Check out Ive's salary, is he hurting after sticking with Apple for a long time? Pick anyone there, Apple's salaries is basically the only argument needed.

 

[TJH133]

This country is now based on "good enough", and it never is. Few companies or individuals even try anymore. And why would you care about your company, your product, if it isn't really yours? When you stick around for less time than necessary for completing a product, it comes out incomplete. See: Microsoft.

On the contrary to your mental block about money, I believe people will get paid when they do a good job. Switching companies every 18 months just for a slightly higher paycheck won't accomplish either great products or great wages. Check out Ive's salary, is he hurting after sticking with Apple for a long time? Pick anyone there, Apple's salaries is basically the only argument needed.

using Ive is not a good example. They pay him a lot. He jumped from company to company to get where he is.

Also have you ever though people leave companies because they would feel better appreciated at a new one. The big reason why people jump ship now more often accross the board is well company show ZERO loyalty to their employees. If they could earn 1 cent of extra profit by dumping an employee they would do it.
There is no loyalty left to the employees. So why the hell should companies expect loyalty from their employees when they give none in return. I used to be dumb enough to think that if I am loyal to the company I work for they will treat me well. Got screwed let go so they could turn a few extra bucks.

This put me in a new mind set. Sorry that is I look out for me myself and eye in terms of work. As long as my professional goals line up or at the very least are not being harmed by the company we are good. If they are in conflict better to start looking.
Pay is among a long list of things on if I will stay at a company or not. But a 15% pay raise is a good way to get me to walk as well.

Sum it up. If you do not want your employees to leave pay them a little more and keep them happy. It cost a hell of a lot more to poach an employee who is happy where he is at. It requires a much larger pay raise.

 

[MacinDoc]

I think you have mistaken me for someone else. Your initial comment, in response to a poster who stated that unless an there was concrete proof, conviction or admission of guilt, he did not believe that Apple participated in this practice:

You mean something like a settlement agreement with, say, the Department of Justice?

My original quote questioned whether a settlement constituted any of the above criteria that the initial poster requested:

...which constitutes neither concrete proof, conviction or admission of guilt. A settlement means that the parties agree to disagree, generally for the reason that both sides agree that the settlement is more favorable to them than the outcome would be in court, particularly after legal expenses are accounted for. I once settled a lawsuit, even though I fully believed that the other party was clearly in the wrong, because the cost of the settlement was far less than my legal expenses would have been to try the case in court, not to mention the waste of my time that would have entailed.

Then, in spite of making the suggestion that a settlement was comparable to concrete proof, conviction or admission of guilt (see your initial quote), you subsequently wrote:

I made no such assertion. I noted the settlement agreement because it provides more than an adequate basis for macrumors to run this article, which you asserted it should not have done. The publicly available information, as well as the facts recited in the Competitive Impact Statement to the settlement agreement show that Apple did indeed participate in these agreements. That's newsworthy. Whether Apple will actually be found liable in this class action is another matter, but there are certainly excellent arguments against it. Is your solution that news and/or rumor outlets omit Apple's name until final resolution of any and all litigation?

I made no comment at any time that MR should not run this article, when in fact most of what is posted on MR is unsubstantiated. Nor am I making any claim regarding whether or not there is a preponderance of evidence supporting the state's case, other than the fact that because both sides chose to settle, it is likely that both were of the opinion that there were weaknesses in their cases.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, it just seems as if there was some misunderstanding between us as to what each was saying.

 

[The Monkey]

I think you have mistaken me for someone else. Your initial comment, in response to a poster who stated that unless an there was concrete proof, conviction or admission of guilt, he did not believe that Apple participated in this practice:



My original quote questioned whether a settlement constituted any of the above criteria that the initial poster requested:



Then, in spite of making the suggestion that a settlement was comparable to concrete proof, conviction or admission of guilt (see your initial quote), you subsequently wrote:



I made no comment at any time that MR should not run this article, when in fact most of what is posted on MR is unsubstantiated. Nor am I making any claim regarding whether or not there is a preponderance of evidence supporting the state's case, other than the fact that because both sides chose to settle, it is likely that both were of the opinion that there were weaknesses in their cases.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, it just seems as if there was some misunderstanding between us as to what each was saying.

You're right, I mistook you for a different poster, at least initially. You selectively paraphrased that poster above. The additional relevant portion of what that poster wrote: "It's disappointing to see MacRumors posting this material before there is any concrete proof, conviction and admission of guilt by Apple." The rest of my posts stand.

Companies settle with the DOJ when they know they're dead meat. I've been there--both sides. The DOJ (and other federal agencies) let them because it's a nice quick win, good publicity, and a good efficient use of resources--unless there's only one target. It also opens the door to the plaintiffs bar and lets those with more extensive resources do the rest of the heavy lifting. Your holes in both cases theory is not generally applicable in these instances, though it is at play in lots of other types of litigation of course. Somewhat interestingly, the settlement without admission of wrongdoing is also showing some signs of falling out of favor--at least when the SEC has been using it.

 

[josh.b]

Didn't you read my other posts? I've been about the only person defending Apple over on this thread.

nope didn't read them, got other things to do but sorry. I thought your post was meant in sarcasm. I am so used to seeing posts exactly like yours but in a sarcastic tone. Anyway sorry again.

 

[powers74]

I'm not even sure if many corporate employees at Apple would want to leave. They have a very high satisfaction rating amongst their employees according to glassdoor. And turnover was revealed to have been one of the lowest of all time. Apple's greatest tool to create these products and services has been the culture. Without it, I don't think there would be a sense of unity amongst the employees. My guess would be that the majority of employees at Apple would not want to leave to work for another employer even if they weren't obligated to sign any sort of anti-competition agreement. Apple seems to take care of their employees pretty well. Not perfect, but I don't know if anyone has ever come so close. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, I'm sure Apple does, and I'm sure their employees are very happy there and that's my point. It's way better there than for instance, the place I work, where people are miserable and scrambling to get out, only they can't.

 

[lolkthxbai]

Oh, I'm sure Apple does, and I'm sure their employees are very happy there and that's my point. It's way better there than for instance, the place I work, where people are miserable and scrambling to get out, only they can't.

Legally, would it still be anti-competitive if they have one of the highest salary payouts in the industry?

 

[TJH133]

Legally, would it still be anti-competitive if they have one of the highest salary payouts in the industry?

yes it would be. As they are preventing the industry average from moving up. Also keeping people from coming in. By keeping the average down they are able to keep from having to give their employees bigger pay raises to line the pockets of the higher ups.

As I said earlier I want all of these companies to get hammered by this as it is wrong and illegal on many levels.