Apple, Google Could Face Large Fines Under New UK Digital Consumer Bill

[Hyperchaotic]

Just another country unable to compete so they resort to regulation.

Europeans often complain that goods and services are more expensive in the EU/UK. Here's a good example why.

So how do you feel about the US Open App Markets Act that are currently being worked on in the US and have a lot of support? Who is it the US can't compete with then?

The US will most likely introduce the same type of legislation on Apple+Google as the EU and GB as some point.

 

[weckart]

How do you stop you dog barking at specific times? I can't shut mine up!!!

2nd Amendment has that covered.

How a

Or make taxes lower for people struggling in the difficult economy. Lower taxes are an amazing social program.

The problem with that is the people struggling at the bottom of the economy pay little to no taxes already. Cutting taxes will only help the better off. It's no surprise that LVMH is now the first European company to be valued at more than $500bn with its stock rising in a economic crunch.

Time to pull out of these tyrannical countries

And make way for someone else. Great thinking there. Somehow I don't think large corporations operate on the basis of personal pique. Storming out in high dudgeon might make the grade for a telenovela cliffhanger but multinationals care more about money than hurt feelings.

I am simply opining that, from the article, minimal government involvement in the marketplace encourages investment and allows for small business growth.

Minimal government involvement in the workplace means the Wild West. Corruption, gangsterism, oligarchy and exploitation will be the outcome. We saw that in Russia when the soviet union collapsed and laws took a while to catch up to changing circumstances. It takes a shedload of goverment involvement to create an atmosphere where small businesses think it is worth all the risk of starting a company. Even the largest companies (hint: Amazon) demand government sweeteners before they think of opening up shop somewhere.

 

[dk001]

Never ever has happened to me or 99% of users.

You have a source for that number?
I looked and could not find anything I could confirm.
I've owned 12? iPhones, 7 iPads, and 3 MBs. 5 needed warranty work. One of them needed it 4x.

Either I am unlucky or the need for Apple Care + is over-marketed.

 

[bollman]

But didn't Sweden move a bit away from its previous "socialist" ways starting in the 1990s and has become more pro-capitalism in the last 30 years or so?

Taxation in Sweden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Free healthcare

Social Insurance in Sweden

Social insurance in Sweden – information from Försäkringskassan on benefits, eligibility, and how the Swedish social insurance system works.

www.forsakringskassan.se

Does that sound pro-capitalism?

 

[webkit]

You have a source for that number?
I looked and could not find anything I could confirm.
I've owned 12? iPhones, 7 iPads, and 3 MBs. 5 needed warranty work. One of them needed it 4x.

Either I am unlucky or the need for Apple Care + is over-marketed.

FYI...

Here is some 2021 data regarding Apple product warranty and AppleCare claims and sales:

Apple's Product Warranties & AppleCare, 4 November 2021

 

[webkit]

Taxation in Sweden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Free healthcare

Social Insurance in Sweden

Social insurance in Sweden – information from Försäkringskassan on benefits, eligibility, and how the Swedish social insurance system works.

www.forsakringskassan.se

Does that sound pro-capitalism?

Does this sound like Sweden is a “socialist” as it used to be?

Is Sweden Socialist? No, but...

The glory days for Sweden economically took place prior to the 1960s, when they had a free economy, low regulation and lots of wealth. Between 1870 and 1950, Sweden became one of the richest countries. But by the mid-1990s, the country had growing economic problems because it continued to...

fee.org

Nordic Countries Aren’t Actually Socialist

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.

foreignpolicy.com

Sweden Isn't Socialist

In international economic-freedom comparisons, Sweden often earns a higher ranking than the U.S.

reason.com

 

[k1121j]

Has canceling subscriptions and getting refunds been an issue for Mac and Windows users who have been sideloading freely installing whatever apps they choose? It hasn't been an issue for me for well over 2 decades.

Why do you think it will be worse on an iPhone than on a Mac or Windows PC?

Canceling subscriptions is an absolute mess have you tried Cydia? Your a tad defensive to put your mind at ease....I'm commenting on the article not disputing the ability.

 

[k1121j]

Pandora's box was wide open before Apple closed it.

Mac and Windows PC users have been sideloading installing whatever app we've wanted for decades now and we've all survived just fine.

deleted

 

[maxoakland]

i don’t buy into the logic of a global turnover being used for fines compared to just the UK activity seems excessive even it’s only 10%.

This is good for consumers. The biggest problem with fines is companies like Apple treat them as a cost of doing business because the profits made don’t eclipse the fines

This is a good step in changing that

 

[gregmancuso]

Never had a NYT sub, but I have had a WSJ sub where I had to call in to cancel or pause service. Did that multiple times without issue. And I didn't have any issue canceling my cable service over 10 years ago when I cut the cord.

Will canceling service be 100% trouble free for everyone? No. But it's not the end of the world scenario people like k1121j pretend it will be.

When I cancelled service with Comcast several years ago I had to call them and the only way to quickly shut down the retention chat was to tell them I was moving to a Cox area so they couldn't try to get me to transfer service or anything.

Some are harder than others - Cable and gym memberships being some of the hardest. Followed closely by timeshares, I'd imagine .

 

[Pezimak]

I think you will find the country can cope without those companies. The country was doing just fine with mobile phones from Nokia, Motorola, NEC, Ericsson, Sony and others before Apple came in with the iphone (some don't exist any more). Apple computers was never a big market in the UK compared to else where so again it's citizens will not suffer. Losing Amazon would allow business to come back into the highstreets again. So no, in my opinion losing those 3 companies will not affect the UK much. There will always be people who will moan and complain about losing something.

Oh and considering each of those companies have done their level best to avoid paying the proper amount of tax to the UK I doubt the UK government will miss the tax contributions.

As a Brit who uses all these companies, I whole heartedly agree. However it's something the government of the day will ensure never ever happens.
This sounds great in principle, I'm all for being able to find companies 10% of their global annual turn over, but as this is a government department putting it through I doubt it'll ever be successful.

We had 3G video calling way before Apple launched it.

 

[bollman]

Does this sound like Sweden is a “socialist” as it used to be?

Sweden Isn't Socialist

In international economic-freedom comparisons, Sweden often earns a higher ranking than the U.S.

reason.com

That article is heavily biased. The private schools in Sweden are _not_ better according to research, there is a fierce debate on how hard they will need to be regulated and the reform is generally seen as a big failure. The only store allowed to sell alcohol is still the government store. Yes, most of the monopolies have been sold out during the right wing rule in the early 2000s, but the idea that the state has to own the "means of production" was outdated years ago, only communists still push that agenda.
The government in Sweden _do_ run pensions, healthcare and social security. There is a tiny bit of your pension you are allowed to manage yourself or use private companies, but that is nowhere near the amounts that the government decide over. This year, the age of retirement was raised to 66 and the age will be stepped up one year for every 5 years to make sure the retirement funds can support everyone. I expect to retire at age 71.
There are private hospitals (very few) but you can still go there and not have to pay any extra. Private schools are the same. You are allowed to choose whatever school you like, the only difference is who gets your taxes: public schools or private schools, the taxes are still managed by the state.
The notion of "free market" being "more free" is sorta silly. Sweden is part of the EU, market rules apply equally to all EU countries. We are not allowed to regulate market more or less than any other EU country. Remember Ireland was fined by the EU for giving Apple tax breaks?
"Socialism" is a very diverse set of ideas that can't be easily boiled down to a few bullet points, some of the ideas and concepts are even conflicting.
When GOP cries socialism in the US, the ideas they shun are usually considered to be mainstream or even right wing in Europe.
In the last 100 years, Sweden has had a government run by the Social democratic party during 75 of those. We still have a "left party" (they dropped "Communist" from the name a few years back) that push some of the communist agenda, and they get around 10% of the popular vote. The Social Democrats gets around 35%.

 

[Pezimak]

More times than not, I just think apple and google should leave the UK and EU. Nothing says a private company has to do business anywhere.

Fantastic, I'd love for them to do that with all these comments. You can then argue amongst yourselves as to why Apple collapsed as a company after. Won't have anything to do with billions and billions and billions in lost revenue and share holders dumping stock I'm sure.

 

[Pezimak]

How much does Apple Gross in the UK? How much do they net? This could easily lead to companies moving out of the UK.

Why would they leave? They will only be fined after a very long drawn out investigation and court involvement and after all avenues have failed. And they break the law? The EU won't treat them any better when it comes to competition laws.

 

[webkit]

If it was just opening up the App Store, why is Google in trouble? Android allows for other downloads. The evidence points to government unhappy with the success and size of Big Tech. That could be a problem, but why sugarcoat it and say it's about App Store when, in reality, the governments are just jealous of the power these companies carry due to their size.

Google is part of it because they meet the turnover criteria/threshold and therefore shouldn't be excluded. They have to follow the same rules as Apple and any other company meeting the criteria.

Large companies are typically the ones which potentially face regulations like this because they are the ones that have the most market impact and influence. Small companies simply don't wield the same market power.

Apple's marketshare is 80% of UK's GDP. Seems like that is what is really bugging them.

I assume you meant market cap and not market share.

I really don't think that in particular is what’s "bugging them" as they are also going after companies smaller than Apple given the £25 billion global or £1 billion UK turnover threshold.

 

[Pezimak]

Also true (as an american) but I just do not find any governments that really help people but in stead they help those in power which ever group that may be. But I do love my apple ecosystem personally and hate our politicians that propose breaking it up so little guys can compete and then I have a chaotic tech ecosystem rather than one that works well together generally. But thats ok with our crappy healthcare I probably will be dead in 5 years LOL

As a line in a film once said, 'governments change but the problems remain the same' said in the context of different country's. If we had no politicians the world would be a better place, probably.

 

[farmboy]

They will soon have great local alternatives that at the moment can't grow because of the market power of the huge companies.

Utter nonsense. If you can't get the word out to consumers, you're not trying. Apple doesn't control what you are making, how and where you promote your new product, or any other shackle to your efforts.

 

[webkit]

That article is heavily biased. The private schools in Sweden are _not_ better according to research, there is a fierce debate on how hard they will need to be regulated and the reform is generally seen as a big failure. The only store allowed to sell alcohol is still the government store. Yes, most of the monopolies have been sold out during the right wing rule in the early 2000s, but the idea that the state has to own the "means of production" was outdated years ago, only communists still push that agenda.
The government in Sweden _do_ run pensions, healthcare and social security. There is a tiny bit of your pension you are allowed to manage yourself or use private companies, but that is nowhere near the amounts that the government decide over. This year, the age of retirement was raised to 66 and the age will be stepped up one year for every 5 years to make sure the retirement funds can support everyone. I expect to retire at age 71.
There are private hospitals (very few) but you can still go there and not have to pay any extra. Private schools are the same. You are allowed to choose whatever school you like, the only difference is who gets your taxes: public schools or private schools, the taxes are still managed by the state.
The notion of "free market" being "more free" is sorta silly. Sweden is part of the EU, market rules apply equally to all EU countries. We are not allowed to regulate market more or less than any other EU country. Remember Ireland was fined by the EU for giving Apple tax breaks?
"Socialism" is a very diverse set of ideas that can't be easily boiled down to a few bullet points, some of the ideas and concepts are even conflicting.
When GOP cries socialism in the US, the ideas they shun are usually considered to be mainstream or even right wing in Europe.
In the last 100 years, Sweden has had a government run by the Social democratic party during 75 of those. We still have a "left party" (they dropped "Communist" from the name a few years back) that push some of the communist agenda, and they get around 10% of the popular vote. The Social Democrats gets around 35%.

That article? I posted three and there are others. The general conclusion among these various articles seems to be Sweden started shifting a bit away from socialism and more towards capitalism in the 1990s.

 

[Pezimak]

You know socialism is a good thing right?!

The pavements , roads, schools, libraries, police forces, fire engines, street lighting, judiciary you rely on, they all exist through the means of a society working together to pool costs and widen access!

Just imagine capitalism gone wild and you had to pay for every mile of tarmac you ever used. Every photon of light you got from the street lamps.

The paying to use roads is coming into the UK. It's an idea they keep looking into. So I wouldn't use that as an argument against socialism....

 

[weckart]

You're comparing Russian corruption to the capitalist America? Really?

The US constitution and founders invented modern capitalism which resulted in both enormous technological breakthroughs and the betterment of global population and mortality rates. Capitalism encourages growth, rewards ambition and provides opportunities. Socialism kills ambition, stunts self employment and rewards laziness.

Yes, and that all came about with a whole host of laws, regulations, oversight and sanctions. if you were to pare those back to "minimal government intervention", you would get exactly the chaos that Russians endured.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Are the fines to bring these companies to heal or to flush out the Government coffers?

Economy is weak so have to plug the deficit somehow.

 

[JoeShades]

So how do you feel about the US Open App Markets Act that are currently being worked on in the US and have a lot of support? Who is it the US can't compete with then?

The US will most likely introduce the same type of legislation on Apple+Google as the EU and GB as some point.

That article is over a year old, That bill is dead as of now, new Congress this year, has to be reintroduced, I am guessing you have no idea how many bills are introduced in congress, it means almost nothing, 99% go nowhere

 

[I7guy]

Fantastic, I'd love for them to do that with all these comments. You can then argue amongst yourselves as to why Apple collapsed as a company after. Won't have anything to do with billions and billions and billions in lost revenue and share holders dumping stock I'm sure.

Yes, and EU could figure how it its citizens can call one another and what cell Ojibwa they would use. And how they would search the internet.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Maybe shareholders would agree. I do t know. Leaving the market with the most onerous regulation and costly regulations would send a message to the EU for sure.

Pretty sure they’d not forgive Apple easily for walking away from 1/4 of their yearly revenue. It’s a minor inconvenience to deal with the regulation vs giving up all that revenue and profile.

 

[I7guy]

Pretty sure they’d not forgive Apple easily for walking away from 1/4 of their yearly revenue. It’s a minor inconvenience to deal with the regulation vs giving up all that revenue and profile.

Well maybe not. Could be a permanent rift with the United States. Who knows? So another large company can step in to fill the void.