Apple Had More Than 1 Million Card Activations During First 72 Hours of Apple Pay

[IJ Reilly]

But we're talking NFC payments here, not just Apple Pay. Those terminals (that accept Apple Pay) also accepted Google Wallet. It's the same technology in the terminals (how each company - Apple and Google - go about it on their side is different).

Last I checked, Android and iOS account for roughly 97% of smartphones out there. I'd say that covers just about everyone as well.

I know, but Apple's method is supposed to be the game-changer in terms convenience and security. Obviously Google Wallet wasn't. The retailers must think so too. Clearly the ones who abruptly turned off NFC payments are concerned, the timing of the shutoff probably not being a coincidence.

 

[jrswizzle]

I know, but Apple's method is supposed to be the game-changer in terms convenience and security. Obviously Google Wallet wasn't. The retailers must think so too. Clearly the ones who abruptly turned off NFC payments are concerned, the timing of the shutoff probably not being a coincidence.

True - Apple Pay is supposed to be more consumer friendly and secure than even Google Wallet.

And it is interesting that Google Wallet has been acceptable for years, yet as soon as Apple releases something both get shut out.

I've paid for a couple of things with Apple Pay since it went live....I tell you its really easy and seems private/secure. I just hope more retailers get on board.

Bottom line, MCX better change up CurrentC....because in its current state, its DOA when compared with even Google Wallet, let alone Apple Pay. A rare instance where Apple and Google find themselves on the same side.

 

[samcraig]

True - Apple Pay is supposed to be more consumer friendly and secure than even Google Wallet.

And it is interesting that Google Wallet has been acceptable for years, yet as soon as Apple releases something both get shut out.

I've paid for a couple of things with Apple Pay since it went live....I tell you its really easy and seems private/secure. I just hope more retailers get on board.

Bottom line, MCX better change up CurrentC....because in its current state, its DOA when compared with even Google Wallet, let alone Apple Pay. A rare instance where Apple and Google find themselves on the same side.

I think in part that Apple Pay expedited the turning off of NFC. Google Wallet has been out for awhile and I am sure a very small fraction of transactions. The sudden deluge of iPhones with Apple Pay and because Apple users have higher transaction rates, triggered a response.

BUT - it should be noted that I think the other factor is that CurrentC is getting "closer" to rollout. Had this been 2 years ago - it's hard to tell if these stores would have reacted the same and/or if the consortium would have been as thwarting.

Timing is also a player in the scenario I am fairly certain.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I don't know but QR Codes have been tried before and failed spectacularly in China. There is precedent. If CurrentC comes out and is different then fine. However, in it's current implementation the security experts and objective news media who've looked into it all came away with the same conclusion. ApplePay is more secure than the current implementation of CurrentC. You can ignore the experts or not. That's your choice. However, consumers who know they are less educated on the topic of mobile payment security are not ignoring the experts. if it turns out that CurrentC becomes more secure then maybe they will go to it. If it's too hard to use given the benefits it won't get any traction. As it stands right now it's a beta product that doesn't exist and leaves open glaring questions about security and privacy.

I'm not ignoring anything or anyone. I know Apple Pay is likely providing the superior security model, but the retailers who are backing CurrentC will have a response to that. They will also draw from a much larger potential base of users, so to succeed by no means do they need to persuade everyone who could use it to use it. Apple OTOH has to persuade a much more significant share of their much smaller base of potential users in order for Apple Pay to be called a success. This could turn into a big problem, especially if the current situation persists, with a lot of the potential user base locked out (as I am).

 

[jrswizzle]

I think in part that Apple Pay expedited the turning off of NFC. Google Wallet has been out for awhile and I am sure a very small fraction of transactions. The sudden deluge of iPhones with Apple Pay and because Apple users have higher transaction rates, triggered a response.

BUT - it should be noted that I think the other factor is that CurrentC is getting "closer" to rollout. Had this been 2 years ago - it's hard to tell if these stores would have reacted the same and/or if the consortium would have been as thwarting.

Timing is also a player in the scenario I am fairly certain.

Oh I agree. I don't think it's an accident that Apple choose their release timing as they did. They wanted to catch retailers in the midst of their terminal upgrades and push decisions forward.

Whether or not it pays off remains to be seen, but I wouldn't bet against Apple (and Google as they are both on the same side here).

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I'm not ignoring anything or anyone. I know Apple Pay is likely providing the superior security model, but the retailers who are backing CurrentC will have a response to that. They will also draw from a much larger potential base of users, so to succeed by no means do they need to persuade everyone who could use it to use it. Apple OTOH has to persuade a much more significant share of their much smaller base of potential users in order for Apple Pay to be called a success. This could turn into a big problem, especially if the current situation persists, with a lot of the potential user base locked out (as I am).

Like I said before - Android + iOS is virtually the entire installed smartphone base. How is that not a big potential base to draw from for the other side?

I think security is the big differentiator here. And I'm sure MCX will come up with some bullsh** reason they need my bank account, but that doesn't make it more secure or give me any reason to trust them.

Especially given the sale (or distribution) of my information for marketing purposes is a stated goal of the CurrentC solution. Something I CERTAINLY don't want.

*Disclaimer - I don't speak for everyone, these are my opinions. But I'd venture to guess many people feel the same way as I do re: personal data and security. Many feel even more strongly.

 

[zioxide]

I'm not ignoring anything or anyone. I know Apple Pay is likely providing the superior security model, but the retailers who are backing CurrentC will have a response to that. They will also draw from a much larger potential base of users, so to succeed by no means do they need to persuade everyone who could use it to use it. Apple OTOH has to persuade a much more significant share of their much smaller base of potential users in order for Apple Pay to be called a success. This could turn into a big problem, especially if the current situation persists, with a lot of the potential user base locked out (as I am).

Seems like all they have so far is "your data is stored on our 'secure' cloud". These same retailers responsible for all these massive data breaches the last few years all of a sudden think they can secure data?

Target gets personal info on 70 million customers stolen and now they want me to use an app to pay that has direct access to my checking account and requires my social security number to sign up? That's lunacy.

Apple Pay will be a success. As soon as it rolls out internationally, where NFC payments are already pretty much standard, it's going to take off even faster.

Just wait until 2-3 years from now when everyone's hit the upgrade cycle on their phones and there are 50+ million people in the US walking around with NFC capable phones.

 

[kironin]

If only this worked with iPhone 5S, they would have had 50M!

I've wondered if it's possible to add to 5S by having the NFC in the case ?

 

[rolphi]

I think I'm a fairly level headed guy most of the time.

When I see posts of people stating that they have or plan to go into a store, load up a cart and then get pissed off at the cashier when they are told they can't use NFC payments when they ALREADY KNOW they won't be taken just to grandstand - yes - I call it like I see it. That's extreme. it's childish. It's immature. All of the above. You can feel free to think this is perfectly rational and acceptable behavior.

There were several 1000+ post threads on this site about this issue and at most 10 posts of the extreme kind that you are commenting about. And yet we all have to read your reaction to them over and over and over and over. And you are lumping in folks with reasonable reactions with the crazies. For those of us who reasonably want to take a stand for privacy and controlling our information, your responses are galling and unnecessary.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I'm not ignoring anything or anyone. I know Apple Pay is likely providing the superior security model, but the retailers who are backing CurrentC will have a response to that. They will also draw from a much larger potential base of users, so to succeed by no means do they need to persuade everyone who could use it to use it. Apple OTOH has to persuade a much more significant share of their much smaller base of potential users in order for Apple Pay to be called a success. This could turn into a big problem, especially if the current situation persists, with a lot of the potential user base locked out (as I am).

The problem with this argument is that it discounts the fact that Android users have had NFC payment capability for years that they can now fully take advantage of like the rest of the world. The much larger issue is that CC companies and banks have to be willing to accept the solution of the retailers. That will also drive consumer adoption. That Apple has going in its favor.

 

[Tech198]

As a CEO, u MUST always think positive, but when it doesn't happen to some in the long run you quickly change your mind..

I think that's how it goes anyway.

I like Tim's enthusiasm. But then again, how does he know this much ?

Rite Aid's not gonna be back with Apple Pay... Who else will be not on the board.. Lets see....

If someone opt-out, why would u wanna go back later ? You opt out for a reason, because u saw u don't like it... or otherwise..

However,the the most important thing here is Tim remains strong right??

I just can't wait till he changes his tune later on..

 

[samcraig]

There were several 1000+ post threads on this site about this issue and at most 10 posts of the extreme kind that you are commenting about. And yet we all have to read your reaction to them over and over and over and over. And you are lumping in folks with reasonable reactions with the crazies. For those of us who reasonably want to take a stand for privacy and controlling our information, your responses are galling and unnecessary.

More than 10 - and quite frankly- I don't really care if you find my responses galling and unnecessary. No idea why it bothers you as clearly they aren't aimed at you if you are one of the so-called rational ones. If it hit a nerve, I can see why you might get upset.

I've seen many people post their same views over and over in this thread and crossovers. If you're going to play police, you're going to have your hands busy.

I never lumped people together. I was very specific in who I was addressing.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Like I said before - Android + iOS is virtually the entire installed smartphone base. How is that not a big potential base to draw from for the other side?

I think security is the big differentiator here. And I'm sure MCX will come up with some bullsh** reason they need my bank account, but that doesn't make it more secure or give me any reason to trust them.

Especially given the sale (or distribution) of my information for marketing purposes is a stated goal of the CurrentC solution. Something I CERTAINLY don't want.

*Disclaimer - I don't speak for everyone, these are my opinions. But I'd venture to guess many people feel the same way as I do re: personal data and security. Many feel even more strongly.

I know you said that before, but I can't figure out the relevance. CurrentC is designed to work with any smartphone. Apple Pay works only with the newest model iPhone. If you don't see the vast difference in the sizes of those two bases of users, then I'm not sure what else I can say.

No doubt some people will feel as you do, but a great many others will be perfectly comfortable using their bank accounts as the basis of mobile payment, since they've likely been using EFTs for decades for PayPal, to pay their utility bills, credit cards, you name it. I see no reason why CurrentC would hit a wall of unwillingness, that people will suddenly find using direct transfers from their bank accounts to be too risky and intrusive. I see this as being no barrier to adoption, none whatsoever.

I will make no assumptions about the security model for CurrentC, except that they will unquestionably have one.

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Seems like all they have so far is "your data is stored on our 'secure' cloud". These same retailers responsible for all these massive data breaches the last few years all of a sudden think they can secure data?

Target gets personal info on 70 million customers stolen and now they want me to use an app to pay that has direct access to my checking account and requires my social security number to sign up? That's lunacy.

Apple Pay will be a success. As soon as it rolls out internationally, where NFC payments are already pretty much standard, it's going to take off even faster.

Just wait until 2-3 years from now when everyone's hit the upgrade cycle on their phones and there are 50+ million people in the US walking around with NFC capable phones.

Apparently you never pay any of your bills online using EFTs.

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The problem with this argument is that it discounts the fact that Android users have had NFC payment capability for years that they can now fully take advantage of like the rest of the world. The much larger issue is that CC companies and banks have to be willing to accept the solution of the retailers. That will also drive consumer adoption. That Apple has going in its favor.

My argument has nothing to do with what Android users have, so I don't see how it's a problem. Google Wallet flopped. It's a non-factor in this discussion.

The banks and card companies don't have to be willing to accept anything, really. The retailers in the CurrentC consortium are trying to deal them out of the system. If that effort takes root, the banks will just have to live with the loss of transaction fees.

 

[Tech198]

Since Wallmart changed direction, by not supporting Apple Pay, they just want all that juicy personal info...

Would this is the 'key' reason why some companies which to *not* support Apple Pay, since merchants what your personal info, and you don't get that with Apple Pay ?

 

[Arndroid]

CVS cares about 1 thing PRESCRIPTIONS.

If you want to hurt CVS this is where it's done,not the redbull and bag of chips up front.

EDIT..also 2 to 3 years is so long away so much will change by then,i'm hoping by this time next year at the latest they turn around. They also have some of the best NFC readers around lol, theirs works flawless.

This is interesting. Does cvs bill prescriptions to a card on file? Walmart does so you don't have to even give them a card when picking up prescriptions.

This is not as secure as apple pay but more convenient than any wallet or pay option. If cvs really only cares about scripts and has a similar practice they would see little benefit.

That being said I don't believe cvs lives on prescriptions alone and they need retail sales to keep their stores going.

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Nope. That's fuzzy math to the extreme. It's 1 million card activations -- not 1 million user activations. Most people have multiple CCs and just judging from my own actions, I activated 3 of 5 cards. So it's more like 200-300K, not all of which have a CVS or Rite Aid.

Next, personally, I'm not going to boycott any store just because they don't accept Apple Pay. That is totally irrational. I don't believe I'm alone. Only the most ardent Apple zealot would change buying habits on this issue alone.

I don't think Apple Pay at its infancy is going to alter where people shop unless there is a $ incentive. Its still at super geek stage where most people don't know it exists or not sure how it works and don't want to look like an idiot at check out fumbling around.

And if Rite-Aid started accepting Apple Pay I still would never go there. The stores near me are dirty and dated and they are even more overpriced than Walgreens. I simply have no reason to set foot in there.

Apple pay offers a much higher level of security. That is a reason for one to switch.

Where I live walgreens and Cvs are on every corner together. If there is one the other is across the street. This easily could sway people from cvs to walgreens

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And in the real world when someone needs something from the drugstore they will run to any drugstore nearest to them despite Apple pay or not. This whole thing about switching from one drugstore to a different one because they ditched ApplePay is becoming ridiculous.

Yeah except in hyper competive markets where drugstores are next to each other. I have six pairs of Cvs and walgreens within three miles of me.

 

[ksuyen]

If this was correct, Mobile Payment users in USA is projected less than 50 million in 2015. That's so far behind the rest of the world.

 

[Rogifan]

Did someone mention anti-trust in relation to Apple or Google?

I know I've said that MXC isn't likely guilty of collusion.

And why do you say these merchants don't seem to like people paying by phone. I think we both know that it's not the phone, it's the use of credit cards which they are trying to minimize before their own app is launched.

How would CurrentC work if not on a phone? I know you were being sarcastic. I'm just being rhetorical like you

Sigh. As has been pointed out before before MCX supporting retailers are perfectly happy to take your credit card so long as it's a piece of plastic and not a phone. And yes some have argued that Apple removing CurrentC from the App Store would spark antitrust concerns. Andy Ihnatko was one.

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My POV is this: Leave the app in the stores and let the customers decide. If Tim is right then the customers will decide which one they like more.

I'm just saying one can't argue that it's OK for MCX merchants to disable NFC and thus Pay but it's not OK for Apple deny CurrentC a place in the App Store. Why is one okay but the other isn't?

 

[DaffyDuck]

CVS cares about 1 thing PRESCRIPTIONS.

Prescriptions are for bringing people into the store. Most of their profit is made on the way to the back to the store, not at the back of the store.

 

[dampfnudel]

5S has no NFC, so this's irrelevant.I have a 5S and just sold it for $400. My 6+ arrives this Thursday and all my cards will go in there. After the breach at Target last time, I would not want to use any physical card anymore.

Where did you just sale it for $400?

 

[IJ Reilly]

Image

If this was correct, Mobile Payment users in USA is projected less than 50 million in 2015. That's so far behind the rest of the world.

That would be one out of every six people in the country. So probably not.

 

[tmiw]

That would be one out of every six people in the country. So probably not.

Plus adoption generally picks up significantly once chip and signature/PIN really takes hold.

 

[iapplelove]

Prescriptions are for bringing people into the store. Most of their profit is made on the way to the back to the store, not at the back of the store.

You know nothing about cvs or their business model. I use to work for them for 8 years

 

[jrswizzle]

I know you said that before, but I can't figure out the relevance. CurrentC is designed to work with any smartphone. Apple Pay works only with the newest model iPhone. If you don't see the vast difference in the sizes of those two bases of users, then I'm not sure what else I can say.

No doubt some people will feel as you do, but a great many others will be perfectly comfortable using their bank accounts as the basis of mobile payment, since they've likely been using EFTs for decades for PayPal, to pay their utility bills, credit cards, you name it. I see no reason why CurrentC would hit a wall of unwillingness, that people will suddenly find using direct transfers from their bank accounts to be too risky and intrusive. I see this as being no barrier to adoption, none whatsoever.

I will make no assumptions about the security model for CurrentC, except that they will unquestionably have one.

I most certainly do. But disabling the NFC terminals doesn't just kill Apple Pay, it kills Google Wallet as well. Those two services combined reach pretty much everyone.

That was my point. CurrentC isn't just competing with Apple Pay (though at this point it seems to be the strongest mobile wallet), it's competing with any NFC-based payment system as they all work with the same NFC terminal technology.

 

[0970373]

Apple Pay will be a success. As soon as it rolls out internationally, where NFC payments are already pretty much standard, it's going to take off even faster.

Just wait until 2-3 years from now when everyone's hit the upgrade cycle on their phones and there are 50+ million people in the US walking around with NFC capable phones.

Agreed. This is a long game for Apple & Google in NFC. Also, aren't chipped cards using NFC? Once chip/pin/signature is required, won't everyone have to have NFC terminals?

 

[IJ Reilly]

I most certainly do. But disabling the NFC terminals doesn't just kill Apple Pay, it kills Google Wallet as well. Those two services combined reach pretty much everyone.

That was my point. CurrentC isn't just competing with Apple Pay (though at this point it seems to be the strongest mobile wallet), it's competing with any NFC-based payment system as they all work with the same NFC terminal technology.

You haven't responded to any argument that I've actually made.

 

[jrswizzle]

You haven't responded to any argument that I've actually made.

I actually have, though you keep ignoring me. You've made the claim that MCX will be able to lean on the fact that CurrentC can reach a wider audience. I don't find that to be true as I've stated above.

As for some of your other points, I don't agree - I think giving your bank account to PayPal or the utility company is different than giving it to a retailer who plans to sell your personal data collected to marketers.

I already stated that this was a known goal of the MCX consortium.

With the Target and Home Depot breaches, you don't think people would be more concerned giving their SSN and Bank Accounts to retailers? There's no protection or oversight if something does happen like there is on a CC.

Plus, at least for me, the companies I pay via EFT/Auto-Debit already have most of my personal information anyways. These retailers don't (and shouldn't).

I'm not a paranoid person at all. I probably fall on the "don't care" side most of the time. I can't imagine I'm part of the paranoid minority this time either.