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Think you're not seeing the forest through the trees here. Yes, people commit suicide. How many of them do it where they work? The fact that you're championing "only" 4 at work suicide attempts is a bit disconcerting. I've been working in a place of business for over 17 years. Not once has some one tried to kill themselves at work, let alone 4 attempts in one year.

First of all, they do it at their workplace because they live at their workplace in company dormitories. They don't go anywhere else, it's like company towns found anywhere else in the world when industrialization occurs.

Secondly, these are very big workplaces. I'm sure your place of business does not have anywhere near the numbers of people that work at these operations.

Third, the suicide rate among any population of a large enough sample is going to be greater than zero. It's just a fact of life that some people kill themselves, and their reasons for doing so are as diverse and complicated as people are. The fact that suicide rates at Foxconn are lower than the Chinese population as a whole is the forest you're looking for. It says that working at Foxconn is better than the alternative. The conditions may not be up to western standards, but it's better for them to have a job under those conditions than to not have a job at all. There is only one reason for labor costs to be so low, and that is because there are far more people needing a job than there are jobs available. Suicide should not be considered in a vacuum. Suicide, when taken into account as just one cause of death among many, should be weighed against starvation, disease, and homelessness those workers are not suffering from as a result of their Foxconn employment. Foxconn offers a clear net good, and workers there are not only elevating themselves, but giving their future generations a leg up towards middle and upper class living. Yes, some are going to kill themselves. Some are going to get AIDS, too, or get hit by a train. We should not blindly ascribe all causes of death to one's employer, at Foxconn, in China, or anywhere else. Instead, look at the actual statistics, and see that Foxconn employment correlates to a lower rate of suicide. Working at Foxconn does not make people want to kill themselves, it makes people not want to kill themselves.

Using your iPhone should not fill you with white liberal guilt, it should fill you with the satisfaction that your consumerism is helping to lift people up out of poverty in a country desperate for jobs. If we make enough iPhones and iPads in China, eventually the Chinese workers will have enough money and living standard expectations that the conditions will improve, labor costs will increase, and our iPhones and iPads will have to be made somewhere else. China will specialize in something other than cheap unskilled labor, and the great wheel of macroeconomics will continue to turn giving us all more wealth and more stuff all over the world.
 
First of all, they do it at their workplace because they live at their workplace in company dormitories. They don't go anywhere else, it's like company towns found anywhere else in the world when industrialization occurs.

Secondly, these are very big workplaces. I'm sure your place of business does not have anywhere near the numbers of people that work at these operations.

Third, the suicide rate among any population of a large enough sample is going to be greater than zero. It's just a fact of life that some people kill themselves, and their reasons for doing so are as diverse and complicated as people are. The fact that suicide rates at Foxconn are lower than the Chinese population as a whole is the forest you're looking for. It says that working at Foxconn is better than the alternative. The conditions may not be up to western standards, but it's better for them to have a job under those conditions than to not have a job at all. There is only one reason for labor costs to be so low, and that is because there are far more people needing a job than there are jobs available. Suicide should not be considered in a vacuum. Suicide, when taken into account as just one cause of death among many, should be weighed against starvation, disease, and homelessness those workers are not suffering from as a result of their Foxconn employment. Foxconn offers a clear net good, and workers there are not only elevating themselves, but giving their future generations a leg up towards middle and upper class living. Yes, some are going to kill themselves. Some are going to get AIDS, too, or get hit by a train. We should not blindly ascribe all causes of death to one's employer, at Foxconn, in China, or anywhere else. Instead, look at the actual statistics, and see that Foxconn employment correlates to a lower rate of suicide. Working at Foxconn does not make people want to kill themselves, it makes people not want to kill themselves.

Using your iPhone should not fill you with white liberal guilt, it should fill you with the satisfaction that your consumerism is helping to lift people up out of poverty in a country desperate for jobs. If we make enough iPhones and iPads in China, eventually the Chinese workers will have enough money and living standard expectations that the conditions will improve, labor costs will increase, and our iPhones and iPads will have to be made somewhere else. China will specialize in something other than cheap unskilled labor, and the great wheel of macroeconomics will continue to turn giving us all more wealth and more stuff all over the world.

You've got it spot on.
 
Not trying to be a racist, but I am a Chinese. (more or less). I just want to add that *Chinese* "do" wait in line, it just depends on where they live/got educate. I am from Hong Kong and I can assure you that Hong Kong people do wait in line. I am pretty sure those Chinese in Taiwan and Singapore also wait in line.

Mainland Chinese is a different beast because they act so differently from the rest of the "Chinese". So, that's why most non-mainland Chinese now like to call themselves Hong Kong people, Taiwanese and Singaporean instead of "Chinese".

For those who don't understand why the scalpers are so aggressive on getting the iphone 4S, it's because the resell value for each 4S 16G can be marked up USD $100+ easily. If you get 10 of those in your hand, that means you are holding a cash check of USD $1000+. 100 of these = cash check USD $10000+. (i know people who buy 100+ 4S everytime when online store open and make a fortune.) You can get into any aftermarket store in China/Hong Kong and sell it, the seller will give you cash right away and no question ask. Too good to be true ,eh?
 
Think you're not seeing the forest through the trees here. Yes, people commit suicide. How many of them do it where they work? The fact that you're championing "only" 4 at work suicide attempts is a bit disconcerting. I've been working in a place of business for over 17 years. Not once has some one tried to kill themselves at work, let alone 4 attempts in one year.

I have visited Chinese companies and factories throughout the countries and it's standard that the companies host dorm for its workers. Basically all the factories workers live together (8 people in a room) of bunk bed. They hang out and sleep together when they are not working, so people they work with are their entire social circle. They see their families on holiday when they travel home (far away). They make about $200/month with $100/month bonus if they don't have any negative report from supervisor.

This is a very standard system for restaurants waitress or department store clerks as well. The suicide rate in Foxconn community IS considerably lower than the general population. You have to understand that 1. Foxconn is a huge company with one million factory workers. That's more than most cities in the world, and all these workers live in high density dorm together working 60-80 hours a week, common (and much better) than condition in other Chinese factories. 2.In China human life is not as valuable as in Western countries. Every year Chinese government execute more people than all nations in the world combines, for crime such as tax evasion.

Companies like Foxconn DEFINITELY treat their employees WAY better than smaller companies that receive FAR less scrutiny. Basically to sell your product in places like Walmart or thru reputable brands, you do have to comply to stringent standard/inspection from international certification organizations such as ISO 9000. Due to high publicity, they also treat their workers better and pay MUCH higher wage (average 1.5x higher than competitors). The working condition in smaller companies whose products are later rebranded and repackaged by American companies, are MUCH worse. I know for fact. Bribery and corruption are the norm. Forgery of safety record and various shady practices are very commonplace.

References:

Foxconn increased factory workers wage by 70%

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Me...y-workers-receive-pay-raise/story?id=10846341
 
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One could argue that people who can afford an iPhone are not poor people anymore. If you look at Hong Kong, there people do queue up at iPhone launches. But of course Hong Kong is richer than Beijing (at least in terms of median income), has been 'rich' for quite some time and has been under British/European influence for multiple generations.

People waiting in 20 degree F (-10 C) weather are not rich people and can't afford iPhones. They are migrant workers (extremely poor social class barred from taking residence in the richer city due to Chinese hukou system). They got shipped from rural area on day long bus with paltry compensation so they could buy massive number of iPhones for the scalper organized gangs. They fight because without the phone they can't bring home the paltry money to feed their families, especially after many days sleeping in sub-freezing weather.

China is a sad sad country where rich and privileged class indulge in the most extreme excess, while a large part of its civilians being left behind, trampled, and sacrificed in the name of materialism.

Just go to any Las Vegas high limit table room and you will see 90% of players there are Chinese, father bringing sons, with stacks of $1000 chips in front of them betting $1,000 dollar bets. Just go to Beijing club district at night and look at the kids of the government elite showing up in Ferrari whose parents making (officially) less than $5,000 a year as government officials.

For references:

How Chinese Hukou system strips rural residents the right of upward mobility in China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system#Effect_on_rural_workers

Chinese fuel Las Vegas gambling: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/feb/22/baccarat-boom-believe-it/

China's 'princelings,' the offspring of the communist party elite, are embracing the trappings of wealth and privilege
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904491704576572552793150470.html
 
pictures from my tour to a female dorm in a factory in China:

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8 people in a room of bunk bed and very sparsely furnished. in fact, there is no shower in the room, only faucets and one squad style toilet. for shower everyone must walks to the first floor for public shower stalls. and this is one of the better dorms in China.
 
Think you're not seeing the forest through the trees here. Yes, people commit suicide. How many of them do it where they work? The fact that you're championing "only" 4 at work suicide attempts is a bit disconcerting. I've been working in a place of business for over 17 years. Not once has some one tried to kill themselves at work, let alone 4 attempts in one year.

I wasn't championing the fact that there were only 4 suicides last year. I'm more pointing out that the folks crying about the number of suicides at Foxconn aren't seeing the perspective here.

If the number was on par with the rest of China, then yeah, it's probably a big deal. But these numbers are much much lower than the rest of China. We're talking around 10 times lower.

The fact of the matter is that the workers at Foxconn have it much better than most people in China. Is it a great living? Probably not in comparison to an average Westerner. But compared to most other Chinese, these folks have a good thing going.

Also, it's a very difficult thing to get into the mind of someone from another culture. In the US, people don't typically commit suicide at work. Who knows why. Maybe they want to be alone in their final moments. In China, maybe folks who commit suicide do it at work because they don't want their family members to be the ones to find them. The point is, they may have many different reasons for committing suicide in a different manner than Westerners. I have no idea. I'm just looking at the facts ... and the facts say that Foxconn workers have a much much lower suicide rate than the rest of China (lower than the US in aggregate, as well).
 
I stood in line for 14 hours in below 0 (probably -10Cel.) to get an iPad 2. I was only outside for 4 hours and the rest in the mall. Damn 5PM launch. It was an experience and the apple staff and the other guys in line made the time go by fast by having a good time.
For instance this Apple accessory/support (Third party) company came by with a nice reclining office chair, footstool and table and the first 4 people(I was third) got to take turns using it. They also supplied us free drinks, lunch and a servant that would hold our place in line while we went to the washroom. It was a blast and I would do it agian. :D
 
People waiting in 20 degree F (-10 C) weather are not rich people and can't afford iPhones. They are migrant workers (extremely poor social class barred from taking residence in the richer city due to Chinese hukou system). They got shipped from rural area on day long bus with paltry compensation so they could buy massive number of iPhones for the scalper organized gangs. They fight because without the phone they can't bring home the paltry money to feed their families, especially after many days sleeping in sub-freezing weather.
Which totally fits into my argument that those tumultos scenes in front of Apple mainland stores are only there because there is enough poverty that getting that fee for waiting is of enough importance to people to fight over it.

But China is 'rich enough' to have enough of a demand for iPhones to cause any lines at all.
 
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